www.re-speed.com for all your suspension and braking needs

 

You should really check out the other engines section. It's the only affordable way to reach the power levels you need to take on an STi.

 

A good TII swap is the way to go to get the kinda power needed to take out an STi.........unless you go V8 . My worn JDM TII in my GSL-SE with a 3" intake and exhaust, 255lph Walbro, stock base-tune Microtech LT10s and some DRs ran a 13.39 at 104.5mph with a 1.95 60ft.

 

I agree with this guy^. Why does anyone think that the guy that owns a STi could even drive it properly is the most baffeling part of this saga? I have only see about two or three owners of these cars be able to bring out the potential of the car. You need skill and that natural talent and feeling for driving as well as a good understanding of proper driving technique when you drive an AWD car. Most people are a huge disappointment to the cars potential.

You can't buy anything to make the pilot better. Sometimes lessons don't even help. Not many people can take a car like that and do anything worth a **** with it.

 

This is not what I had in mind when trying to start an intelligent discussion. And members wonder why I've been grouchy with the newbs lately.

96scoob asked an interesting question that could merit an informative discussion comparing a newer, technologically advanced performance oriented sports car, to our old school, simple, 1st gens and what it would take to be competitve. Scoob has a specific goal in mind for his build, can't say the same many others. Most simply want cheap and faster because they don't think they have enough or thier buddy has challenged them and they fell for it.

When 96 scoob provides hard facts on his Stage II in regards to weight, hp and skid pad, then hopefully we can point him in the right direction with specifics, instead of the usual ilinformed regurgitation.

Even if his project never gets off the ground. A virtual build of a 1st gen Scoobie killer could be very informative and a learning experince for all by discussing what's needed to meet this specific goal, what works, what doesn't and why.

 

looks like most of us dont get out often...

RELAAAAAAAX PEOPLE!

 

i noticed the thread title from the main forum menu, so figured i'd read what was going on. "stage 2" just means a turbo-back exhaust and engine management. tons of people use the Cobb AccessPort (AP). it's a pretty safe tune, but still nets some decent power:


other than the STi having a weight handicap (~3350 lbs), a lot of the outcome of the race will depend on the driver. it can be pretty hard to drive an STi well because the transmission can be somewhat picky. not only that, but a lot of drivers don't realize that the power tapers off after about 6-6.5K because the turbo can't flow enough, and they don't shift until 7-7.2K. the car is a total beast in the low-mid range, but isn't too spectacular up top. that being said, i've only had my car up to Stage 1 (engine management) and i've never driven a Stage 2 STi. but as someone already mentioned, Stage 2 is pretty impressive. it's my goal for mine, since mine is my DD. it has a lot of power but still have very quick spool and response because of the stock turbo.

edit: btw, if the power numbers in the dyno chart seem really low, it's because Mustang dynos read lower than just about any other.

 

here's my buddy's "stage 2" STI:









and here's my 80 Leather Sport:







what's teh point? as much as i love my friend's STI and its alcantara, i'll take my SA and its 27 year old leather any day.

 

HERE HERE!!!!

 

Yah, i understand where your coming from on the driving as i haven driven awd for many of years. The key for them is the launch which ive seen so many people screw up. But when driven right these cars are amazing in almost every aspect.
And thx telum01 for the power and weight info hadnt had a chance just got off work. As for spring rates and skid pad let me do some digging and pull up some info. Also thx trochoid for putting it into perspective. I love the feel of 80's sports cars as i feel they bring the pureness of driving. But today with our little 12A's unfortunitely without some decent mods and swap it is hard to keep up with the import scene with some rediculous STI's, EVO's , 350Z's etc. tht are prowling the tracks and streets. As i choose the STI to compare as im a previous owner of a scooby and thats kinda what i would like to run with. I appreciate all the good info, keep it comen guys.

 

Jamie, i love that response!!

 

ok here are some specs from modernracer.com
2004-2005 WRX STI
HP: 300hp @ 6000rpm
Torque: 300lb-ft @ 4000rpm
Redline: 7000rpm
Top Speed: 152 Mph
0-60: 4.7sec
1/4 Mile: 13.2 @ 104mph
60-0: 114 ft
200ft skidpad: .90g
Curb Weight: 3263-3298

Stage 2 (From my research)
345hp
385lb-ft
60': 1.8's
1/4 mile:12.8's @ around 105mph
now these are personal statements from the proven power braging forum on nasioc.
As for the skid pad the highest acording to nasioc is 1.4g on a full out race car. .9-1g seems to be the norm on a nice suspension set up.

 

Hahaha, the STI may have better HP and TQ numbers, but the SA/FB FLAT OUT OWNS in the looks department!

 

With the numbers provided, looks like the Stage II has about a 9.7:1 power to weight ratio, that puts it in the old muscle car class. Plugging that number into the weight of the SA, at least 242 hp is needed, just to keep up, which seems low, but I can live with that. Matching skid pad is going to be the difficult part. With suspension mods, 13X8" wheels with race rubber, an SA should pull over 1g, getting to 1.4g is a task.

So, class, those are the basics, now how does he, or you go about the build to meet those numbers at a minumum. Be specfic. First poster who says a TII swap and doesn't detail it gets a butt wiggle.

 

I consistently pull between 1.1 and 1.2 G's on a Solo II course on DOT 'R' tires. Slicks would have no trouble putting him in the 1.3 range. If he spends the cash and gets Jim Susko's suspension package for the rear end, things could get interesting. Still and all, no amount of bandaids, no matter how expensive, will correct the inherent deficiencies in the SA chassis. The car is always going to be rear-happy to some degree, and the solid rear axle will limit traction on corner entry and exit.

But that's the charm, IMHO. I don't want the understeer-heavy handling that the STI provides, though the power and torque would be nice.

 

for suspension upgrades he needs to go to some local auto x meets to get a real world understanding about what you need to do to the 7 to get it to handle the way he desires. no better place for real world experience.

 

Buy my Rx7. It beats STI's on the road race track. I even out handle them. Free Pilsbury Doughboy. Those Subies are heavy in comparison, weight + awd = overheated tires.

 

Take your rx-7 and stick a 9 foot surfboard in it and go surfing.

Can't do that with a STI.

 

Would a cage in the SA help cure some of the chasis deficiencies or would that be an over kill and would def add some weight which means i would have to have more than the 240hp mark.

 

i would bet DirectFreak's car would keep up...............

 

^+1.
Look up the member DirectFreak and check out some of the videos he has of his car. Thing is a damn beast.

 

Ok, I'll go into detail then. First, make sure your car is in good shape. Check for rust, etc. The cheapest, most reliable way to make enough power to be able to hang with an STi is a 302/T5 swap. It's easy to put in and cheaper than a 13bt. Most of your other alternatives will be very expensive and sacrifice a lot of driveability. Before that, though, you should upgrade your suspension and brakes. The main problem then is his traction advantage. His car will be faster than a simple hp/weight ratio due to this. Your car, on the other hand, will have problems putting much more power than stock down without upgrading wheels/tires/lsd if you don't have one. Your main advantage is weight, wich also hinders your traction. You're wanting to take on Subaru's halo car with the economy sports car of the early 80's. Welcome to a fun, but very expensive hobby.

 

i think a TII swap with a mild tune and good driving skills could walk/hang with a STi

 

Thanks Moses, that's the kind of real world facts I was looking for. And of course we both know which 13X8" wheels I was refering to, even if the others don't. That gives me hope that mine will be pulling over 1g by the time I'm done, on street tires.

Scoob, the cage will add weight, of course. Will it stiffen it more, oh yeah. That will make for a better prepped car for 300+ hp.

 

not so sure about that. our integra (www.k2rd.com) pulls 1.6+g's on the track, on 15" ra-1's. car is 2350, per the rules.

on a road race type of track, the sti is a porker. if you really wanted to know, you could look up lap times on mylaps.com, i betcha the average sti runs lap times in the spec miata range....