dj55b

iTrader: (2)

Alright i'm pretty sure that quite a few of you guys out there have this problem, the rocker panels on my car are pretty darn bad, that bad that i can't lift the car anymore using them i have to find other places to lift the car from. Is it possible to chop the rocker panels off from another car and place them on there or would that not be "safe" ... also would anyone know if those are required for passing safety? somepeople have said yes and others have said no so i'm confused on that one. let me know what you guys think about this problem ... its the only major rust that is left on the car and i want to fix it the bext way possible. I will try to post some pictures tomorrow or something to show you how bad it is. (i'll even try to include what happened last time i tried to lift the car up from the "spots" you're suppose to.

rxtory

This is a toughy but if the rocker panels are bad and cant lift them any more in the right spots you could be screwed and may be forced to just sell the body of the car i have no clue on the safety issue however if some one was to find out like insurance or something they may not like you welding new ones on

dj55b

iTrader: (2)

ahhh ... not what i really wanted to hear there... anyone else's opinion?

dj55b

iTrader: (2)

I'm not too familiar with what's "required" and "safe" as far as body rust goes ... but what other purpose does the rocker panel serve as besides provide points to lift the car? does it have anything major directly attached to it ?

Dan_s_young

iTrader: (1)

personally I think these dont matter, I jack from different points, of course the metal is going to press in, its 20 years old and was dumb to make that the jack point anyways... I say just dont use those spots...

dj55b

iTrader: (2)

thats what i've been doing .. and i usuallly do on other cars ... i don't particullarly find rocker panels that strong .... but i still want to know if it would affect anything else? ... I was thinking if they don't affect anything else i could just take all the rust off and just redo it with fiberglass since it would be easier. what do you guys think about that?

dj55b

iTrader: (2)

bump ...

g17-jimmy

I have rust on the pass. side rocker panel, but not so much that the jacking point is affected. But I'm going to cut out and weld in a new piece.

I'd figure if your car is so bad that you can't use the jacking point, that it would be safer to cut out and weld in new pieces than to leave the rusted metal there.

dj55b

iTrader: (2)

I wasn't planning on leaving the rusty metal ... I was just planning on using fiberglass istead of metal ... i don't have a welding machine accessible on me and it would prob be beetter in the long run to do it in fiber glass cause then it won't rust.

But my question still remains ... do the rocker panels serve any other purpose than to be point to jack the car up?

Alex-7

I think you're "safe" to replace them. People do it all the time on camaros and **** like that. But if I where you I'd weld in new metal or have someone else do it.

Anything but metal seems like a temp. fix to me, you don't want to have to do it again some day do you?



--Alex

daviddh85

Fix em. You can jack from the front on the front crossmember, and jack the back from the diff. Pry out all the rust, and use expanding home insulation foam to fill them. Then coat them with Duraglass. I work restoring cars and you'd be suprised how much that stuff is used to make a backing for filler. The foam is called "Great Stuff"

dj55b

iTrader: (2)

sorry for my ignorance ... but what's duraglass?

kenn_chan

probably a particular brand or type of fiberglass resin and cloth, I would rather spot weld in the piece, you don't have to weld the entire seem, just a spot weld, or a tack weld every couple of inchs.

if you seem weld in the entire peice it will warp pretty bad do to the heat (unless you got a jewlers torch, or a tig welder) a normal gas torch, stick welder or mig puts too much heat in and it warps.

if you spot it in every couple of inchs it will be way stronger than the fiberglass, and will not warp that bad. if you can reach the backside, sand clean and undercoat, if you can't then drill a small hole on the backside and flood the area with the spray undercoating trying to hit the entire panel you have spot welded in. kenn

kenn_chan

probably a particular brand or type of fiberglass resin and cloth, I would rather spot weld in the piece, you don't have to weld the entire seem, just a spot weld, or a tack weld every couple of inchs.

if you seem weld in the entire peice it will warp pretty bad do to the heat (unless you got a jewlers torch, or a tig welder) a normal gas torch, stick welder or mig puts too much heat in and it warps.

if you spot it in every couple of inchs it will be way stronger than the fiberglass, and will not warp that bad. if you can reach the backside, sand clean and undercoat, if you can't then drill a small hole on the backside and flood the area with the spray undercoating trying to hit the entire panel you have spot welded in. kenn

trochoid

iTrader: (6)

Kenn 's got it right. The rockers are a structural part of the unibody. It needs to metal. I've seen the bottom of too many 7's that were jacked improperly by shops, crushing the spot weld flange and the rockers. Replaced with fiberglass, it would shatter the first time some idiot puts it up on the hoist wrong.

Make sure all of the rust is removed and the metal treated properly. I've seen it come back through the paint in less than 6 weeks when not done correctly.

daviddh85

Duraglass is a fiberglass reinforced body filler. I would never use the rocker panels for jacking the car up. They don't provide enough structural integrity to work safely under the vehicle. Fill with foam, trim the foam until it is just below the level of the rest of the rockers, and coat the outside with duraglass and repaint. Jack under the front of the rear trailing arms or on the front crossmember. Depending on how bad your rockers are, the welder will just blow right through the weak thin metal and be unsafe anyways. Cosmetically, use the duraglass and "Great Stuff"

dj55b

iTrader: (2)

but i thought that when they jack your car up they don't use those point .. they go further in .... or maybe i should just pay my neighbourgh to do it for me in metal ... he's been working on hotrods and american muscle cars for a while ... his last project he twisted things around and bought a triumph TR4 (no not the s he couldn't find that one for a good price) so maybe i'll get him to look at it an see what he says.

kenn_chan

horsehocky,

"I would never use the rocker panels for jacking the car up. They don't provide enough structural integrity to work safely under the vehicle"

if we are talking about the stock lifting points, then they are more than strong enough when used properly.

they are not designed to lift the whole side of the car with one jack though. they are just like anything else improperly used and they will buckle.

also

"Depending on how bad your rockers are, the welder will just blow right through the weak thin metal and be unsafe anyways."

Any True body shop can, and would rather weld it in, only cheap *** jokers shops don't learn the basics of body welding and repair!

let me explain it a little different, get a jewlers torch (they are fairly reasonable price wise) and get a junk hood out of a junkyard. cut a piece out with a hack saw, and then practise welding it back in. learn to set the torch as low as is possible and weld. at a jewlers torch lower settings it barely puts out enough heat to solder with, so it will take a couple of days of practise for anybody that knows how to gas weld, or braze.

useing urethane foam will only make it worse, that **** soaks up moisture into its open cells, and trap it against the metal, casueing it to rust out 2x as bad. you should only use expanding foam when you are working with FRP molds, never ever as a part of the actual car.

doing any less is a wste of time, as it will rot back through in a fairly fast fashion.

kenn

daviddh85

Kenn's Full of it. Do they even have welders in japan?

kenn_chan

Tenmayaro! boku no koto wa shiaranai desu. nani ga "full of it" ?

If you think I am incorrect, then state your reasons why, otherwise don't go talking ****! I states the reasons why in my post earlier.

the only person full of it is you, I am surrounded by ocean on all four sides, cars rot out here all the time, and its like anything else. Garbage in, garbage out. you cannot effectivly seal the rocker panels as there are multiple drain areas built in by the factory. as a result they will trap moisture, (and the foam accelerates this process) and it will rot out.

I personally learned how to weld useing a jewlers torch, specifically to fix my first car I bought when I was 18 and in the military on Okinawa, during the interviening 20 some odd years I have welded patch panels into no less than about 14 cars, some of mine some of friends.

trochoid

iTrader: (6)

Keep them straight Kenn.

Cheaping out on the rockers, or any rust repair for that matter is just a waste of time and money.

Of course one doesn't jack at the outside edge of the rocker, but the rocker is an integral part of the outside box sill and is part of the frame of the unibody. Compare the size of the rocker to the c-channel just inboard from it and you will see how much strength it adds to the unibody.

Duraglass is a fine bodyfiller, not a structural replacement. With enough flex in the body, due to the parts that have rusted out, the duraglass will just crack and eventually fall out, but before it does, it will let even more moisture in and further compund the rust degredation of the body.

If your neighbor has that kind of experience, go talk to to him and get his opinion, not some lazy, cheap *** bs that will get you by ideas that get posted here sometimes.

Just in case you wonder if I have any idea of what I am talking about, check the pics of my current project.

southernrunner

ok i got a question, what about rust where the hatch closes, like by the handle to lift it. It is rusting away, the molding to keep the water is starting to run out of places to hold on to and keep the water out, can this be fixxed?

kenn_chan

Yes, actually you can replace that whole panel, RX-7's are spot welded togethor, just look down the seams and you will find little indentations wear they resistance spot welded it.

go to a junkyard find a 7 that has the panel you want un rusted.

then you do is set the car on level ground (no jacking up) , drill out the spot welds (they are all over the place so it might take awhile to get the ones you want out,) oh and don't drill any that don't need to be. there is a sealer that sits between the panels, a propane torch does a good job lf loosening it up.

pull the panels go home, repeat procedure with rusty panel. remove throw away.

line up the panels, and you will find that 95% of the spot welds lighn up perfect when the car is setting on level ground. tack weld each of the drilled out spot welds jsut enough to reweld that spot. sand, primer, paint

you notice i said nothing about bondo? better to lead the panels in if you want to get really flashy, lasts longer the lead seals the heated area to stop corrosion, and it won't crack out like bondo.

kenn

kenn_chan

and this ladies and gents is how you strip a car down to parade rest!
thats how you prep a car you plan on keeping

How long have you been working on it Trochoid?

With this kind of effort put into it, it will deffinitely be SRH, HSLD
(**** red hot, high speed low drag)

One of my favorite Marine Corp Acronyms

sorry i tried to link trochoid photos and it didn't work... Cars YES home computers NO kenn

trochoid

iTrader: (6)

Actually, it will probably be flat black.

I pulled the motor after Thankgiving, and have been at it pretty much every day since. Found little bits of rust here and there and just got carried away. Stripped all of the exterior down to bare metal.
Took me 2 1/2 days to scrape the undercoat off before I could even sand blast it.

It will probably be another month to finish. I still have little parts to restore and detail, then the final paint and assembly.

All this because I built the damn bridgeport and wanted to put bigger tires on it.

Of course that 'required' wider fenders.