Rob Stolz

I just bought 3 litres of royal purple 10w30 for my 85 gsl and decided to search a bit about it. Then I soon reallized that it may not be the way to go, I just figured because racing beat sold it and what not that it was good for rotaries but now I am a little confused. Our cars burn a little bit of oil and synthetic won't be able to something or other I dont know... Premix instead 1/2 ounce per gallon or something, and block off some thing, forget the name. If anyone uses or knows about using this can you tell me exactly what I have to do to use this oil and if there is a cheaper oil you can use to premix, it was 10 bucks a litre. Somebody get my facts straight plz!

FirebirdSlayer666

iTrader: (3)

Using Royal Purple is completely fine, regardless of what any other forum members may say. I've seen the test results and I use Royal Purple myself and have had no problems whatsoever. Some people block off the Oil Metering Pump(OMP) and run 2-stroke premix into the gas tank.

trochoid

iTrader: (6)

You're short a qt. for an oil change, buy extra for top offs. If you go with 5-7k between oil changes, pick up 3 more qts.

And no bs from the peanuts about synthetic vs dino. The owner of RP has raced rotarys for years and uses his product.

Rob Stolz

Yeah i see that you agree with it as I have been searching a lot, do you premix?? How much a gallon, different gas milage changes different ratio, hmmm almost thinking that it is not worth it, I am looking for the horse power/torque gain and the gas milage gain, willl i notice anything or not is the main thing, because if I wont I will probly just stick with mineral and take the 3 litres back.

aussiesmg

iTrader: (1)

I use Synthetic in both my cars in the engine, trans and diff, runs quieter, frees up a few ponies and starts cleaner with no more choke smoking. 7500 mile changes and I do pre mix but it isn't necessary I'm just a sucker for finding the harder way to do things....lol

Mix at a ratio of 100:1

85gsl2ndtimearound

Hope this wil help.
First it's up to you what you want to do and why you want to do it. Everyone has different logic on why to block off the OMP or use sinthetic over mineral oil. I can tell you that I have blocked off my omp and have been pre mixing for about 60,000 miles w/ no advers effects at all. Mpg nor HP did not change. I use MMO (purchase at any Walmart/K-mart) Red bottle black lable 16oz. and 32oz. sizes 32oz. is cheaper per oz. but the 16oz. is so perfect for the 1oz. per 1gl. ratio that I use (you do know you have a 16gl. tank right). One of the main reasons why i did this is my OMP was leaking and 2 stroke is made for burning.
Hope this helped.

also MAKE SURE YOUR BLOCK OFF PLATE = THE THICKNESS OF THE OMP OR YOU WILL CRACK THE FRONT HOUSING at lest I did.

Nicholas P.

iTrader: (1)

so you can change oil and just throw royal purple in there not having to worry about anything, I thought they made a layer in the engine or something... no im not saying it does, jus twondering thats what ive heard

trochoid

iTrader: (6)

The RP synthetic will work fine with the stock mop system, you don't have to pre-mix. When Mazda said no to synthetics 30 years ago, the synthetics were a lot different than todays blends. Some people even claim they leave less ash and deposits than the dinos.

Rob Stolz

good causae i dont want to screw around with premixing and what not I just want to change my oil and be done with it

Hyper4mance2k

iTrader: (40)

once you go synthtic you can't go back. It's that much better!!!

aussiesmg

iTrader: (1)

Agreed.....no comparison

Rotary Weasel

my 7 has been running RP 10w-40 for over a year now..it goes in clean and comes out clean..and it burns just fine (visible smoke on startup)
I was going to switch back to dino but thought better of it

timmybighands

So how exactly are you guys premixing? Do you join the petrol/oil in a container first to make sure they have a good mix then fill your cars, or are you simply dumping the oil into the tank and filling over top of that? Just curious since I've never pre-mixed on an automobile before... only lawnmowers lol.

REVHED

There's this amazing thing called shorter bolts.

REVHED

Just dump it and fill.

juliankirk

I agree. After running fb's for 10 years i finally made the switch to synthetic (castrol 5w20 for the early spring) and the startup seems much smoother with less smoke than when i used brand x oil.

trochoid

iTrader: (6)

The following document is from Royal Purple.


Rotary Engines

Can Royal Purple Motor Oil be used in a rotary engine?

Yes. A rotary engine is a modified four cycle engine that recommends the use of an API licensed motor oil for street applications.

More information and FAQs on lubrication of Rotary Engines:

In a rotary engine, the oil lubricates the eccentric shaft bearings, thrust needle bearings and rotor bearings similar to a crank and rod bearing of a piston engine as well as being injected into the combustion chambers to lubricate the apex seals, corner seals, and side seals helping to create the sealing mechanism doing the equivalent job of the piston rings.

Royal Purple provides outstanding protection for the e-shaft, rotor bearings, thrust bearings and is suitable for the oil injection system as it has proven to run cleaner than other oils and is an excellent choice for rotary apex seals, corner seals, and side seals.

Mazda makes a statement in the Owner’s Manual not to use synthetic oils in a rotary engine, why do you say that it is OK?

Royal Purple has performed seal compatibility testing on the components used in a rotary with excellent results, including older rotary engine seals dating back to the Cosmo. Royal Purple’s Technical Services Manager David Canitz has been an owner and racer of rotary engine cars and has used synthetic motor oils in rotaries since 1985 with excellent results. He has been trying to find an answer to this Mazda statement for the last 18 years.

In the early development of synthetic oils decades ago, there were purportedly some seal compatibility issues. Today’s synthetic oils do not have the compatibility issues of the old oils. There is no substantiated evidence of seal compatibility issues with Royal Purple.

Here are some facts:


The Mazda Factory racing departments recommend and use ‘synthetic’ oils including the winning 1991 Leman’s 20-G 4 rotor Mazda 787B.


MazdaComp USA printed manual (now Mazdaspeed) recommends the use of synthetic oils for racing conditions.


Royal Purple Motor Oils have been used in rotary engines (both race and street) for ten plus years with excellent results.


Royal Purple Motor Oil is compatible with the bearing material, sealing elastomers, and combustion seals used in a rotary engine.

I heard that synthetic oil doesn't burn like mineral based oils and will coat the inside of the engine with deposits.

If this was a problem with synthetic motor oils in general, then all internal combustion engines using a ‘synthetic’ would experience increased deposits on internal surfaces. The opposite is actually the norm.

Conventional four cycle motor oils will typically leave deposits of carbon and ash when injected into the rotary apex seal, corner seal, and side seal areas. Royal Purple’s motor oil actually burns cleaner due to the synthetic base stock being free of contamination and many of the additives being ‘ashless’. This may not be true for all synthetics but Royal Purple has been proven to work extremely well in rotary engines.

Royal Purple’s formulation of synthetic hydrocarbon motor oil does burn at the nominal combustion temperatures experienced in both street and racing applications, whether normally aspirated, turbocharged, or supercharged. (500 – 1700° F idle to race rpms typical combustion temps)

Will the synthetic oil effect the oil seals?

No. Royal Purple’s Motor Oil is fully compatible with the elastomers found in rotary engines as well as more conventional piston engines. The oil seals, housing seals and other elastomers used in rotary engines typically consist of Buna N, Nitriles, Neoprene, or Viton materials which are also commonly found in piston engine cars.

I hear that synthetic is ‘thinner or lighter’ oil, is there a greater possibility that the oil will leak between the seals?

No. If an engine’s sealing surfaces are in good condition, synthetic oil should not cause any leakage. However, if an engine has marginal seals, there is a 50/50 chance the seals will leak less or more. A synthetic motor oil is going to have similar viscosity to that of a conventional motor oil – except at extreme temperatures. Due to a flatter viscosity curve, at low temperatures it will not thicken as much (easier winter cranking) and it does not thin out as quickly at higher operating temperatures (better oil film at higher rpm).

Should I go longer or shorter between oil changes?

Royal Purple recommends that the maximum oil drain / filter change interval listed in the Owner’s Manual be followed while under warranty (new RX8). For FA, FB, FC, FC Turbos, and FD rotaries, extending drain intervals from two to five fold is possible if desired. Since the rotary engine injects oil through the use of a metered oil pump, either adding oil into the carb base plate air / fuel mixture or directly injecting oil into the rotor housing, rotary engines will consume oil of one quart per 1000 – 3000 miles. It is important to maintain the proper crankcase oil level in your rotary engine if you decide to extend oil drain intervals.

If I pre-mix my fuel for the rotary engine, do I use the same ratio as with mineral based oils? Does it burn at the same rate?

In an ideal world, the rotary engine metered oil pump should inject an ashless oil designed to burn in the combustion chamber and use a four cycle oil in the crankcase for the eccentric shaft, rotor bearings, and thrust bearings. For the street, Mazda simplified the OE system to use just one oil, that being a typical four cycle oil for both the e-shaft as well as the combustion chamber. Royal Purple recommends using our standard TCW III 2 Cycle Oil if the metered oil pump is still enabled. The two cycle oil being added to the fuel tank is in addition to what Mazda designed to inject and acts as a supplement or insurance. Depending on which engine, the level of modifications (street port, Bridgeport, peripheral port, nitrous, turbocharged) and application, the typical mix ratio could vary from 200:1 to 800:1.

For a pure racing application where the metered oil pump has been disabled or removed, again based on the actual engine and modification level, the ratio could vary from 150:1 to 600:1. For this application, we recommend our Racing 2 Cycle TCW III product or the standard 2 Cycle TCW III can also be used.

A stock FD twin turbo 13B with the MOP oil injection system can typically use about one quart per 1500 miles under hard street driving. If this vehicle is getting 15 mpg, the gasoline to oil ratio is 400:1. If the oil consumption on this vehicle reduces to 1 quart per 2500 miles and fuel efficiency increases to 20 mpg, the gasoline to oil ratio increases to 600:1. The stock metering oil pump is a great system as it varies with throttle position (load on the engine). Pre-mixing has to be calculated for the ‘worst case’ that will be seen by the engine for that fuel load. Under racing conditions, that’s wide open throttle at racing rpms. This means that at idle, the ratio may be slightly fat (rich).

samtuck

sounds good to me. glad this came up, its about time for an oil change and I was about to start the search to decide on what oil to use.

Blake

I am impressed with the responses! It was not all that long ago that this sort of thread would have cued a wave of misinformed parrotting, claiming that synthetics were bad for rotaries. Very frustrating for those of us who know better from many years of experience with countless rebuilds to prove the reduced wear and absence of carbon buildup. Sythetics do burn and burn very cleanly.

Let me add a bit to the discussion.

One of the top Royal Purple engineers is David Canitz, who is a rotary fanatic. I've known him personally for over 6 years and see him every year at the SEMA show. He even came to Sevenstock a couple years ago. Royal Purple sponsored on of my race cars 6 years ago, and it ran Royal Purple everything...motor oil, premix, gear oil, bearing grease, etc. I've used the motor oil in my daily drivers for at least 5 years. Rob Golden uses Mobil 1, and has for over 10 years.

On the oil change interval, it depends on the amount of fuel blow-by contaminating the oil. Fuel is a solvent and will break down oil prematurely. Turbo cars tend to have significan fuel blow-by, so we typically recommend not to extend the oil change interval. Non-turbo car can go 6 months or even a year between oil changes provided you still change the filter every 3K.

I would also caution that synthetics are a waste on older engines....say, those with more than 50K miles or so. The newer the better. Converting to synthetics later in the engine's life is like closing the barn door after the cows get out. Synthetics prevent wear; they can't reverse it. Also, while they are certainly better, they are not so much better that switching is a no-brainer on the economics level. Mineral oils are really quite good and very cheap. You have to love your engine to use sythetics. So, if you invest in a quality rebuild and want to get the most out of it, cetainly run a quality synthetic motor oil (Royal Purple or Mobil 1), but if you are driving a car with a middle-aged engine you might want to stick with mineral oil simply because you will not see as much benefit.

Rob Stolz

Ok, I think I am going to switch to royal purple, my car has 83k on it however the previous owner bought it when he was like 50 brand knew and had to get rid of it cause of some disease so I bought it. He told me that most of the kilometers are from being towed behind a motor home, hence the heavy duty tow bar and millions of chips in the paint right in front of the hood. Now what I need to know is if I SHOULD PREMIX???? Because I dont want to if I don't need to, unless it is necessary.

FirebirdSlayer666

iTrader: (3)

You don't need to at all. If you want to you can but you don't want to so don't LOL.

Rob Stolz

will it benifit my engine life if i premix???

Hyper4mance2k

iTrader: (40)

Only if you disconnect the MOP, then you need to premix. Half a quart of 2-stroke oil per fillup, it's that easy. You can do it as an added helper, but it WILL smoke a tinny tiney bit more and eat your cat and o2 sensors faster.

Rob Stolz

I just talked to a guy from racing beat and he told me royal purple burns the same as any other 4 stroke oil however if you premix you should use a different type of oil. He said the main problem with synthetics are that the rubber seals tend to leak because of a different oil but with royal purple they didnt come across that problem, also he told me that mazda says to use no synthetics because they couldn't test everyone out.