Replacing Ball Joints
11-07-10, 11:31 PM
#51
35r 13b first gen
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Keith13B you have some good points. My arms are a bit of a hack job, the press fit back in was not tight at all....you could wiggle one of them back out. But after the welding they should be good for the life of the car. They already lasted since 1979. I am very confident in the job one of our fabricators did with a little Miller wire machine. 3 stitches on the bottom and 4 on top. That joint is not moving. Cooled each arm in the sink after each side. They never really got hot.
11-08-10, 12:32 AM
#52
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you have a point. i'm sure if you got a good press, and it was street car, it would be fine. there is a margin though when its not a street car, and then i think the tack is to keep it from moving.
its maybe a bad example, but on the integra, we've started to pop spot welds in the body, it can't handle 1.2G+ loads, its a big difference from a street car
its maybe a bad example, but on the integra, we've started to pop spot welds in the body, it can't handle 1.2G+ loads, its a big difference from a street car
It would be interesting to see if we could test this out, kid love to see a comparison of stock vs tacked vs retaining clip.
In my opinion I would think that the retaining clip its the one that would spread the load evenly throughout the control arm and be more resistant to shearing.
Trochoid, your idea is sound one and I can see where even if they failed they'd still need to break the nub off.
11-08-10, 09:15 AM
#53
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11-08-10, 11:46 AM
#54
Spend a few bucks more and buy Moog or a similar AMERICAN brand made in the USA. Now you won't have that paper warranty, but you're buying a MUCH better product.
If you shop online, in many cases you can get Moog or similar for just a few bucks more than you would at the chain stores. I bought all name brand online and came out cheaper than I would have at my own store using my employee discount.
It's funny, at my store we used to sell name brand suspension AND the off-brand cheap stuff. People didn't want to spend the extra $$$ to get the good stuff. Now we ONLY sell the chinese stuff, and customers are getting mad because we don't sell the good stuff! As a parts supplier, we're screwed either way.
If you shop online, in many cases you can get Moog or similar for just a few bucks more than you would at the chain stores. I bought all name brand online and came out cheaper than I would have at my own store using my employee discount.
It's funny, at my store we used to sell name brand suspension AND the off-brand cheap stuff. People didn't want to spend the extra $$$ to get the good stuff. Now we ONLY sell the chinese stuff, and customers are getting mad because we don't sell the good stuff! As a parts supplier, we're screwed either way.
I've used Moog in the past - great quality and they have grease zerks. Can't seem to find them online for the first gen, now. Are these still available?
How do Beck Arnley ball joints compare? What other good brands are out there? Definitely want grease zerks.
I've also found Mevotech and CTR joints, but I'm assuming these are the cheap Chinese ones that you are referring to.
And so that I'm not totally jacking the thread...I always tack weld mine.
Thanks.
11-08-10, 01:47 PM
#55
Lives on the Forum
I learned something interesting this year in regards to ball joints for our cars, so I can shed a little more light on this subject now.
Last fall, right before the car was stored for winter, I replaced both ball joints. Both pressed in very firmly so, just like the last time, I chose not to weld them. When I pulled the car out in the spring, within a few hundred miles both of those ball joints started showing signs of getting sloppy. They were cheap, they were Chines, but really they should have lasted a lot longer than that.
So, I call up the shop I bought them from and they replaced them at no charge. This time, they gave me Japanese parts. The old joints pressed out very hard, but the new joints could be inserted by hand! WTF??? Just to be sure I hadn't messed my control arms up, I pressed the old ones back in, and once again they were an extremely tight fit. So I broke out the calipers and there was maybe 1/2mm difference between the two styles of joints. I confirmed with the shop that they had given me the correct joints.
Before all of this happened, I had gotten a spare ball joint from dj55b to take along to Deals Gap with me, just in case I had to replace one along the way. So, I pulled that one off the shelf and tried it. Even though it was yet another brand name, it too was smaller and could be inserted by hand.
So, considering this information, I now understand why some people swear that you don't need to weld them, while others swear that you do.
I wish I had brand names to go along with this information, but I failed miserably in that aspect of my driveway research.
Hopefully this will help answer some of the questions....
btw, I ended up using the Japanese parts hoping that they would last longer (so far, so good) and I did have a buddy throw a couple of tack welds on them for me. I also chose to put the welds on the top of the arm for the very reasons stated by Trochoid.
.
Last fall, right before the car was stored for winter, I replaced both ball joints. Both pressed in very firmly so, just like the last time, I chose not to weld them. When I pulled the car out in the spring, within a few hundred miles both of those ball joints started showing signs of getting sloppy. They were cheap, they were Chines, but really they should have lasted a lot longer than that.
So, I call up the shop I bought them from and they replaced them at no charge. This time, they gave me Japanese parts. The old joints pressed out very hard, but the new joints could be inserted by hand! WTF??? Just to be sure I hadn't messed my control arms up, I pressed the old ones back in, and once again they were an extremely tight fit. So I broke out the calipers and there was maybe 1/2mm difference between the two styles of joints. I confirmed with the shop that they had given me the correct joints.
Before all of this happened, I had gotten a spare ball joint from dj55b to take along to Deals Gap with me, just in case I had to replace one along the way. So, I pulled that one off the shelf and tried it. Even though it was yet another brand name, it too was smaller and could be inserted by hand.
So, considering this information, I now understand why some people swear that you don't need to weld them, while others swear that you do.
I wish I had brand names to go along with this information, but I failed miserably in that aspect of my driveway research.
Hopefully this will help answer some of the questions....
btw, I ended up using the Japanese parts hoping that they would last longer (so far, so good) and I did have a buddy throw a couple of tack welds on them for me. I also chose to put the welds on the top of the arm for the very reasons stated by Trochoid.
.
11-09-10, 11:33 PM
#56
35r 13b first gen
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I learned something interesting this year in regards to ball joints for our cars, so I can shed a little more light on this subject now.
Last fall, right before the car was stored for winter, I replaced both ball joints. Both pressed in very firmly so, just like the last time, I chose not to weld them. When I pulled the car out in the spring, within a few hundred miles both of those ball joints started showing signs of getting sloppy. They were cheap, they were Chines, but really they should have lasted a lot longer than that.
So, I call up the shop I bought them from and they replaced them at no charge. This time, they gave me Japanese parts. The old joints pressed out very hard, but the new joints could be inserted by hand! WTF??? Just to be sure I hadn't messed my control arms up, I pressed the old ones back in, and once again they were an extremely tight fit. So I broke out the calipers and there was maybe 1/2mm difference between the two styles of joints. I confirmed with the shop that they had given me the correct joints.
Before all of this happened, I had gotten a spare ball joint from dj55b to take along to Deals Gap with me, just in case I had to replace one along the way. So, I pulled that one off the shelf and tried it. Even though it was yet another brand name, it too was smaller and could be inserted by hand.
So, considering this information, I now understand why some people swear that you don't need to weld them, while others swear that you do.
I wish I had brand names to go along with this information, but I failed miserably in that aspect of my driveway research.
Hopefully this will help answer some of the questions....
btw, I ended up using the Japanese parts hoping that they would last longer (so far, so good) and I did have a buddy throw a couple of tack welds on them for me. I also chose to put the welds on the top of the arm for the very reasons stated by Trochoid.
.
Last fall, right before the car was stored for winter, I replaced both ball joints. Both pressed in very firmly so, just like the last time, I chose not to weld them. When I pulled the car out in the spring, within a few hundred miles both of those ball joints started showing signs of getting sloppy. They were cheap, they were Chines, but really they should have lasted a lot longer than that.
So, I call up the shop I bought them from and they replaced them at no charge. This time, they gave me Japanese parts. The old joints pressed out very hard, but the new joints could be inserted by hand! WTF??? Just to be sure I hadn't messed my control arms up, I pressed the old ones back in, and once again they were an extremely tight fit. So I broke out the calipers and there was maybe 1/2mm difference between the two styles of joints. I confirmed with the shop that they had given me the correct joints.
Before all of this happened, I had gotten a spare ball joint from dj55b to take along to Deals Gap with me, just in case I had to replace one along the way. So, I pulled that one off the shelf and tried it. Even though it was yet another brand name, it too was smaller and could be inserted by hand.
So, considering this information, I now understand why some people swear that you don't need to weld them, while others swear that you do.
I wish I had brand names to go along with this information, but I failed miserably in that aspect of my driveway research.
Hopefully this will help answer some of the questions....
btw, I ended up using the Japanese parts hoping that they would last longer (so far, so good) and I did have a buddy throw a couple of tack welds on them for me. I also chose to put the welds on the top of the arm for the very reasons stated by Trochoid.
.
yet again why i say im going to just replace the whole arm like reccomended
11-11-10, 04:56 PM
#57
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I've used Moog in the past - great quality and they have grease zerks. Can't seem to find them online for the first gen, now. Are these still available?
How do Beck Arnley ball joints compare? What other good brands are out there? Definitely want grease zerks.
I've also found Mevotech and CTR joints, but I'm assuming these are the cheap Chinese ones that you are referring to.
And so that I'm not totally jacking the thread...I always tack weld mine.
Thanks.
How do Beck Arnley ball joints compare? What other good brands are out there? Definitely want grease zerks.
I've also found Mevotech and CTR joints, but I'm assuming these are the cheap Chinese ones that you are referring to.
And so that I'm not totally jacking the thread...I always tack weld mine.
Thanks.
Mevotech is trash. We have sold them in the past and had nothing but problems.
Brands I have dealt with in the past that have been good:
Mcquay-Norris (spelled wrong I'm sure), Perfect Circle (division of Dana I believe), Raybestos Professional have all been good. All of these I have seen in the past use grease zerks, and a real castle nut, as opposed to a nylon lock nut by many of the cheaper brands. There's another good brand I wanted to mention but I can't think of it off the top of my head.
Basically, buy Moog if it's available. If not, use one of these other brands if you can!
Guys, aren't there also issues with the ball-joint sizes based on the year of the vehicle? I remember something about a production date cut-off. I think the early model cars you're "supposed" to replace the whole arm. The later model ones "supposedly" have replaceable units.
This might be where some of the size differences mentioned in this thread may have come from?
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