RE-Speed Steering Rack - Some Questions
07-12-08, 10:56 PM
#1
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RE-Speed Steering Rack - Some Questions
First of all, this thing looks badass. This is what I'm talking about in case you're wondering:
http://mrcmfg.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=108_112_133
My questions are:
Has anyone actually finished one of these and driven it? how does it feel? any issues? Any bumpsteer or anything like that? Any adverse handling effects?
It seems like a big task to PROPERLY do a rack and pinion swap, all sorts of **** to worry about with steering geometry, I guess my question is: did they get it right?
were there any issues with fitment or quality of parts?
whats up with the double u-joint in the steering shaft? it doesnt look like thats necessary based on the pictures i've seen, can one u-joint not compensate for the angle required? or is there something it would interfere with that i don't see? Should I even care that there are two U-joints?
Any response is appreciated, I'm VERY excited about this kit and re-speed seems to have their **** together, I'm just wondering if there's anyone with some real world experience can share that I may overlook before I drop almost a grand on the kit.
http://mrcmfg.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=108_112_133
My questions are:
Has anyone actually finished one of these and driven it? how does it feel? any issues? Any bumpsteer or anything like that? Any adverse handling effects?
It seems like a big task to PROPERLY do a rack and pinion swap, all sorts of **** to worry about with steering geometry, I guess my question is: did they get it right?
were there any issues with fitment or quality of parts?
whats up with the double u-joint in the steering shaft? it doesnt look like thats necessary based on the pictures i've seen, can one u-joint not compensate for the angle required? or is there something it would interfere with that i don't see? Should I even care that there are two U-joints?
Any response is appreciated, I'm VERY excited about this kit and re-speed seems to have their **** together, I'm just wondering if there's anyone with some real world experience can share that I may overlook before I drop almost a grand on the kit.
07-13-08, 12:17 AM
#2
I have one installed in my car with a quick ratio rack. The quality and fitment are more than perfect. I have also bought their front sway bar, and heat shield which are all just as good as you'd expect. As for the double joint on the steering shaft itself, its a double collapsable joint area. What that means is that if you ever get in a crash, the shaft that goes up to the steering wheel can collapse in 2 areas instead of being forced up to your chest. Its a safety thing
07-13-08, 12:27 AM
#3
I currently have the kit, and have used it for 3 months or so. The kit is well build, very well thought out and an absolute pleasure to drive. I have no issues with bump steer, nor does it tram line or anything to that nature. The rack does not bind going over bumps and into parking lots either.
There are a few minor issues that I ran into.
First, the kit doesn't seem to like 13" stock wheels. I didn't have any luck with MOOG or Beck/Arnley outer tie rod ends, as they would rub on the wheels. The Mazda stock outer tie rod ends cleared the wheels with 2mm clearance. I ended up going with a set of 15" anyway.
The only other thing that I had to do was ground the steering rack. The horn uses the steering shaft as a ground, and the rack is isolated from the body. A simple fix.
There are a few minor issues that I ran into.
First, the kit doesn't seem to like 13" stock wheels. I didn't have any luck with MOOG or Beck/Arnley outer tie rod ends, as they would rub on the wheels. The Mazda stock outer tie rod ends cleared the wheels with 2mm clearance. I ended up going with a set of 15" anyway.
The only other thing that I had to do was ground the steering rack. The horn uses the steering shaft as a ground, and the rack is isolated from the body. A simple fix.
07-13-08, 07:53 AM
#4
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I currently have the kit, and have used it for 3 months or so. The kit is well build, very well thought out and an absolute pleasure to drive. I have no issues with bump steer, nor does it tram line or anything to that nature. The rack does not bind going over bumps and into parking lots either.
There are a few minor issues that I ran into.
First, the kit doesn't seem to like 13" stock wheels. I didn't have any luck with MOOG or Beck/Arnley outer tie rod ends, as they would rub on the wheels. The Mazda stock outer tie rod ends cleared the wheels with 2mm clearance. I ended up going with a set of 15" anyway.
The only other thing that I had to do was ground the steering rack. The horn uses the steering shaft as a ground, and the rack is isolated from the body. A simple fix.
First, the kit doesn't seem to like 13" stock wheels. I didn't have any luck with MOOG or Beck/Arnley outer tie rod ends, as they would rub on the wheels. The Mazda stock outer tie rod ends cleared the wheels with 2mm clearance. I ended up going with a set of 15" anyway.
The only other thing that I had to do was ground the steering rack. The horn uses the steering shaft as a ground, and the rack is isolated from the body. A simple fix.
07-13-08, 11:04 AM
#5
First of all, this thing looks badass. This is what I'm talking about in case you're wondering:
http://mrcmfg.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=108_112_133
My questions are:
Has anyone actually finished one of these and driven it? how does it feel? any issues? Any bumpsteer or anything like that? Any adverse handling effects?
It seems like a big task to PROPERLY do a rack and pinion swap, all sorts of **** to worry about with steering geometry, I guess my question is: did they get it right?
were there any issues with fitment or quality of parts?
whats up with the double u-joint in the steering shaft? it doesnt look like thats necessary based on the pictures i've seen, can one u-joint not compensate for the angle required? or is there something it would interfere with that i don't see? Should I even care that there are two U-joints?
Any response is appreciated, I'm VERY excited about this kit and re-speed seems to have their **** together, I'm just wondering if there's anyone with some real world experience can share that I may overlook before I drop almost a grand on the kit.
http://mrcmfg.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=108_112_133
My questions are:
Has anyone actually finished one of these and driven it? how does it feel? any issues? Any bumpsteer or anything like that? Any adverse handling effects?
It seems like a big task to PROPERLY do a rack and pinion swap, all sorts of **** to worry about with steering geometry, I guess my question is: did they get it right?
were there any issues with fitment or quality of parts?
whats up with the double u-joint in the steering shaft? it doesnt look like thats necessary based on the pictures i've seen, can one u-joint not compensate for the angle required? or is there something it would interfere with that i don't see? Should I even care that there are two U-joints?
Any response is appreciated, I'm VERY excited about this kit and re-speed seems to have their **** together, I'm just wondering if there's anyone with some real world experience can share that I may overlook before I drop almost a grand on the kit.
Should be some more guys post shortly. There are 50+ kits out there at the moment.
Just a bit if info for you. The kit was in design and testing over a year before we went to market. We scrapped at least 3 designs before ending on this one. EVERY suspension and steering characteristic was looked at thoroughly.
The kit serves way more than simply a rack conversion. There is more adjustability than stock and some of the adjustments are completely new to the first generation chassis.
Thank you for the interest and we look forward to building you a kit.
-billy
07-14-08, 09:27 AM
#7
I have the kit on both my FB's and as the others said its a very well made kit and feels very solid while driving. As one would expect there is no slop and totally transforms the feel of the car. I drove one of my FB's to work today and it is 100 times more stable on the highway, no more wandering within the lane or any of that...
One thing I did notice on both cars is that with the new shorter steering arms it has much more Ackerman angle (I believe thats the term for the difference in angle between the two wheels) especially at full lock. So much so that the wheels seem to fight themselves when trying to make really tight turns, like in a parking lot or something. It happens with both left and right turns, the outside wheel is at a much great angle than the inside wheel....Has anyone else come across this?
One thing I did notice on both cars is that with the new shorter steering arms it has much more Ackerman angle (I believe thats the term for the difference in angle between the two wheels) especially at full lock. So much so that the wheels seem to fight themselves when trying to make really tight turns, like in a parking lot or something. It happens with both left and right turns, the outside wheel is at a much great angle than the inside wheel....Has anyone else come across this?
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07-14-08, 09:56 AM
#8
I have the kit on both my FB's and as the others said its a very well made kit and feels very solid while driving. As one would expect there is no slop and totally transforms the feel of the car. I drove one of my FB's to work today and it is 100 times more stable on the highway, no more wandering within the lane or any of that...
One thing I did notice on both cars is that with the new shorter steering arms it has much more Ackerman angle (I believe thats the term for the difference in angle between the two wheels) especially at full lock. So much so that the wheels seem to fight themselves when trying to make really tight turns, like in a parking lot or something. It happens with both left and right turns, the outside wheel is at a much great angle than the inside wheel....Has anyone else come across this?
One thing I did notice on both cars is that with the new shorter steering arms it has much more Ackerman angle (I believe thats the term for the difference in angle between the two wheels) especially at full lock. So much so that the wheels seem to fight themselves when trying to make really tight turns, like in a parking lot or something. It happens with both left and right turns, the outside wheel is at a much great angle than the inside wheel....Has anyone else come across this?
07-14-08, 10:28 AM
#10
I knew there would be more guys post as time went on with the post.
The new aluminum steering arm that were introduced and made standard on the kit was to improve the ackerman. They made huge leaps over the use of the stock arms.
They do not 100% eliminate it, more like a 80% change over stock arms. It is only a full lock in parking lots as mentioned and hardly noticeable to most.
We feel the current arms are the proper solution between the variables.
-billy
They do not 100% eliminate it, more like a 80% change over stock arms. It is only a full lock in parking lots as mentioned and hardly noticeable to most.
We feel the current arms are the proper solution between the variables.
-billy
07-14-08, 11:22 AM
#11
Ah so the stock arms had more ackerman then? I guess I'm picturing the whole thing wrong in my head then....
I just read the original post again and figured I'd respond further. Bumpsteer doesn't seem to be an issue at all, the car handles very well, feels very planted even on very rough roads (there are plenty around here)
Don't concern yourself with the double U-joint once you see it all in person you'll see it is nessesary to connect everything, and they are also using it as further protection in a crash (it will collapse along with the rest of the column)
A few other little things I'll throw out there;
The motor mount is notably stiffer than stock, so it will transmit more vibration through the car. Not a show stopper, but something to keep in mind.
It's also not the easiest thing in the world to align, but once you get it dialed in you probably won't touch it again, so again not a big deal.
As far as the installation goes, if you have a 81-85 steering box you don't need to take it apart to get the parts you need. The outer tube simply slides out, and you can then take the top half of the steering shaft apart, leaving the bottom half and the box itself in tact. Took maybe 10 mins total to modify the shaft once the box was out of the car. I also had problems with the steering arms sitting too low on the ball joint, turned out to be cheap ball joints not made to spec. The ball joints Black Dragon/Victoria British sell work out great.
Just give yourself plenty of time to install it and you'll be good to go!
I just read the original post again and figured I'd respond further. Bumpsteer doesn't seem to be an issue at all, the car handles very well, feels very planted even on very rough roads (there are plenty around here)
Don't concern yourself with the double U-joint once you see it all in person you'll see it is nessesary to connect everything, and they are also using it as further protection in a crash (it will collapse along with the rest of the column)
A few other little things I'll throw out there;
The motor mount is notably stiffer than stock, so it will transmit more vibration through the car. Not a show stopper, but something to keep in mind.
It's also not the easiest thing in the world to align, but once you get it dialed in you probably won't touch it again, so again not a big deal.
As far as the installation goes, if you have a 81-85 steering box you don't need to take it apart to get the parts you need. The outer tube simply slides out, and you can then take the top half of the steering shaft apart, leaving the bottom half and the box itself in tact. Took maybe 10 mins total to modify the shaft once the box was out of the car. I also had problems with the steering arms sitting too low on the ball joint, turned out to be cheap ball joints not made to spec. The ball joints Black Dragon/Victoria British sell work out great.
Just give yourself plenty of time to install it and you'll be good to go!
07-14-08, 01:18 PM
#12
I didn't care for the vibration at first, felt kind of weird. However after driving for a few days, it didn't bother me and the improvements in the steering were enough to make a little vibration minuscule. Its actually cool how you can feel your engine more.
07-14-08, 06:38 PM
#14
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my current FC has delrin mounts, I don't think I'll mind the vibration. Besides, the motor will be balanced by carlos lopez up to 8500 RPM so I should be okay.
07-15-08, 10:18 AM
#19
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I guess I have bigger fish to fry right now, but I'd like to do this upgrade, in a year or so, probably when I go 13BT.
07-15-08, 10:21 AM
#20
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First, the kit doesn't seem to like 13" stock wheels. I didn't have any luck with MOOG or Beck/Arnley outer tie rod ends, as they would rub on the wheels. The Mazda stock outer tie rod ends cleared the wheels with 2mm clearance. I ended up going with a set of 15" anyway.
I plan on ordering the kit for Christmas, and my 79 has stock sized 13" rims on it that I plan on keeping on the car. If it makes a difference the spindles/brakes have been upgraded to the ones on the 85(12a) model.
Thanks,
Mike
07-15-08, 10:29 AM
#21
To answer both questions yes its over $1000 by the time you are done and yes I used a engine crane to hold the engine. I basically switched crossmembers first so I could get the crane out of the way. The instructions have you put the cross member in last.
As for the 13" wheels, in order to get them to fit with my aftermarket tie rods I had to grind a little bit off the bottom of the tie rod. Definatly not the best solution ever, but I haven't had the chance to order Mazda tie rods yet. I would like to say that they barely rubbed, and I didnt have to remove much, but its still a very tight fit.
As for the 13" wheels, in order to get them to fit with my aftermarket tie rods I had to grind a little bit off the bottom of the tie rod. Definatly not the best solution ever, but I haven't had the chance to order Mazda tie rods yet. I would like to say that they barely rubbed, and I didnt have to remove much, but its still a very tight fit.
08-13-08, 08:36 AM
#23
Yes, the front area where the pan dips can be larger. The rear section will still need to dip up to clear a support bar included in the kit. If you would like the sump larger in the rear portion you can always make a special support bar the bends down.
-billy
-billy
