Rack and pinion power steering ideas
06-13-07, 01:52 PM
#26
*gets his ladder, scrummages around on the top shelf*
Dammit aussiesmg, I don't see any steering racks up here... oooh, hey look, big brake kits! Fuel Pressure Gauges! FC Fuse Box Brackets!.. umm.. don't wait up, I may be a while
Just for info... I noticed yesterday that Saturns use a rear-steer R&P setup. I don't know how adaptable it would be to our use, but I was just flipping through a saturn brochure while waiting for someone and they had a great out-of-car depection of the engine, front crossmember and steering/suspension system, and I was like "hey, it's rear steer!"
Jon
Dammit aussiesmg, I don't see any steering racks up here... oooh, hey look, big brake kits! Fuel Pressure Gauges! FC Fuse Box Brackets!.. umm.. don't wait up, I may be a while
Just for info... I noticed yesterday that Saturns use a rear-steer R&P setup. I don't know how adaptable it would be to our use, but I was just flipping through a saturn brochure while waiting for someone and they had a great out-of-car depection of the engine, front crossmember and steering/suspension system, and I was like "hey, it's rear steer!"
Jon
06-13-07, 02:27 PM
#27
Back when I still worked at my old job (gas station/repair shop) I was constatnly making notes on which cars were rear steer, and somewhere near the same size as a FB, there are actually quite a few rear steer cars, but all much too wide for our purposes. No reason to go crazy trying to make something that Billy has been perfecting for over a year, I'll wait anxiously 
06-13-07, 04:00 PM
#28
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You guys do realize that you dont need it to be rear steer right?
All you do is change up the spindles, put the left on the right and the right on the left. There ya go....front steer!
All you do is change up the spindles, put the left on the right and the right on the left. There ya go....front steer!
06-13-07, 07:59 PM
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right about now would be the time to pull up the thread from before the big system crash with all the pics of some one that tried this. to bad most of that got deleted anybody else remember that? It looked like it would have worked after he modified the rods. poor guy wrecked it on his first try. If I remember right there were 2 other big problems with this idea. what were they? hmm
06-14-07, 12:46 PM
#39
Ok, I think now would be a great time to just elaborate on what we are doing. I do not like putting information out until we are 100% ready due to possible changes up until the absolute final point, but in this case we will make an exception.
Just a bit before we head in. Our system has been in the works for over a year. The date on my first model is 2-12-06. We have prototyped 3 units the first two were completely scrapped and we started with a clean sheet of computer screen starting with the 3rd. The fourth piece is our test mule and is very close to the computer models. Throughout this process we have used 3d modeling to achieve the part designs. We have beaten the crap out of the test mule. Used it to bump steer the car and measure camber and caster changes.
The time we take to bring parts to market we feel is well warranted. This year long process does not simply include the assembly itself but also the manufacturing process and fixturing. The CNC machined assembly jig is nicer than allot or parts I have seen on the market. That is just how we do things and it takes time. We also set our goal to not eliminate the use of parts our customers have already purchased as well as to ensure optional upgrade pieces in the future.
The point we are at is this. The unit is 98% to where the final production parts will be. We are happy with the final outcome and feel our customers will be as well. The final bit we are working out is pricing and availability. This is from our suppliers as well as our retail. Finalizing hardware and options as well as fixtures.
This means we are very close to being able to put it in the catalog.
Now for the down and dirty:
*The system is front steer. It eliminates the strut rods with rear arms that turn the lower control arms into lower "a" arms.
*Rack options will be stock ratio, quick ratio and power.
*We will supply all the parts to complete the project. This is 99% BOLT IN, without chassis modifications.
*Does NOT hinder the stock collapsible steering shaft from operating normally. *New main steering shaft angles designed for added collapsibility in case of an accident.
* Allows for track and "turn in" adjustments at the lower control arm inner pivot by means of stock and relocated pick up points.
* Allows for camber and caster gain adjustments.
* Bumpsteer adjustments at the rack as well as outer tie rod.
* Adjustable engine mount for use with 13B and 12A Engines in any 79-85 chassis.
* Solid Aluminum or polyurethane engine mounting.
* Polyurethane rack mounting.
* Works with Stock, polyurethane and Spherical pivot bushings.
* Optional first gen tubular lower control arm.
* Optional 2nd gen style lower control arm for use with 2nd gen strut mounting.
* We will sell this in 3 version. First is just the cross member, Second is complete kit minus the rack and lastly the entire kit with brand new rack.
* Parts are laser cut or CNC machined, down to the last tube. The assembly is tig welded on a CNC machined fixture system.
* Assembly will be powder coated for long lasting good looks.
The pictures below are of the CAD modeled assembly. Not all parts are in the pictures and some of the passenger side pieces that are the same as drivers side are removed for clarity.
Purple is the stock frame rail
Orange is the stock steering tube after being removed from the box
Green is the optional hard or soft engine mount bushings.
As you can see the setup uses a front mount engine cover
You can see the adjustable pivot points for the inner pivots
You can see where the new "a" arm ties into the frame.
the underside shot shows the gusseting and attention to detail put in to each and every piece. There are 30+ custom parts that will make up the ReSpeed Crossmember and Rack upgrade kit.
-billy
Just a bit before we head in. Our system has been in the works for over a year. The date on my first model is 2-12-06. We have prototyped 3 units the first two were completely scrapped and we started with a clean sheet of computer screen starting with the 3rd. The fourth piece is our test mule and is very close to the computer models. Throughout this process we have used 3d modeling to achieve the part designs. We have beaten the crap out of the test mule. Used it to bump steer the car and measure camber and caster changes.
The time we take to bring parts to market we feel is well warranted. This year long process does not simply include the assembly itself but also the manufacturing process and fixturing. The CNC machined assembly jig is nicer than allot or parts I have seen on the market. That is just how we do things and it takes time. We also set our goal to not eliminate the use of parts our customers have already purchased as well as to ensure optional upgrade pieces in the future.
The point we are at is this. The unit is 98% to where the final production parts will be. We are happy with the final outcome and feel our customers will be as well. The final bit we are working out is pricing and availability. This is from our suppliers as well as our retail. Finalizing hardware and options as well as fixtures.
This means we are very close to being able to put it in the catalog.
Now for the down and dirty:
*The system is front steer. It eliminates the strut rods with rear arms that turn the lower control arms into lower "a" arms.
*Rack options will be stock ratio, quick ratio and power.
*We will supply all the parts to complete the project. This is 99% BOLT IN, without chassis modifications.
*Does NOT hinder the stock collapsible steering shaft from operating normally. *New main steering shaft angles designed for added collapsibility in case of an accident.
* Allows for track and "turn in" adjustments at the lower control arm inner pivot by means of stock and relocated pick up points.
* Allows for camber and caster gain adjustments.
* Bumpsteer adjustments at the rack as well as outer tie rod.
* Adjustable engine mount for use with 13B and 12A Engines in any 79-85 chassis.
* Solid Aluminum or polyurethane engine mounting.
* Polyurethane rack mounting.
* Works with Stock, polyurethane and Spherical pivot bushings.
* Optional first gen tubular lower control arm.
* Optional 2nd gen style lower control arm for use with 2nd gen strut mounting.
* We will sell this in 3 version. First is just the cross member, Second is complete kit minus the rack and lastly the entire kit with brand new rack.
* Parts are laser cut or CNC machined, down to the last tube. The assembly is tig welded on a CNC machined fixture system.
* Assembly will be powder coated for long lasting good looks.
The pictures below are of the CAD modeled assembly. Not all parts are in the pictures and some of the passenger side pieces that are the same as drivers side are removed for clarity.
Purple is the stock frame rail
Orange is the stock steering tube after being removed from the box
Green is the optional hard or soft engine mount bushings.
As you can see the setup uses a front mount engine cover
You can see the adjustable pivot points for the inner pivots
You can see where the new "a" arm ties into the frame.
the underside shot shows the gusseting and attention to detail put in to each and every piece. There are 30+ custom parts that will make up the ReSpeed Crossmember and Rack upgrade kit.
-billy
06-14-07, 01:16 PM
#40
Man thats a lot of parts! So it seems like there will be a number of different variations within the 3 different kit types given the optional tubular A arms and all that. I can't wait, too bad I spent all that time sandblasting all the rust off my old suspension parts though....
06-14-07, 01:27 PM
#41
Man thats a lot of parts! So it seems like there will be a number of different variations within the 3 different kit types given the optional tubular A arms and all that. I can't wait, too bad I spent all that time sandblasting all the rust off my old suspension parts though....
You can use your stock steering arms and control arms as well as tension rod/ swaybar brackets.
-billy
06-14-07, 02:52 PM
#42
All I can say is WOW, you took this thing to the next level. I have a feeling this will sell really really good withing the race community. Andjustability in almost everyway, especially having 2 engine types being able to be fitted in there at in one setup as just a bolt on affair. Really really impressed... but then again I'm kinda afraid to see the price tag now lol. Not saying it wouldn't be worth it, it would be worth every penny of it.
06-14-07, 05:30 PM
#44
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Geez Billy....have you been spying on me? Thats crazy how much it looks like the one I have been designing!
Seriously, great minds must think alike! Although I dont have fancy CAD drawings
I like the control arms and how you brace it from behind like that, mine is a bit different.
Sounds like you have some driving time with it already....mine hasn't even seen the ground yet. So possibly my design wont work, still working on it in my spare time.
Anyways, looks wicked!
Seriously, great minds must think alike! Although I dont have fancy CAD drawings
I like the control arms and how you brace it from behind like that, mine is a bit different.
Sounds like you have some driving time with it already....mine hasn't even seen the ground yet. So possibly my design wont work, still working on it in my spare time.
Anyways, looks wicked!
06-14-07, 05:52 PM
#45
ive seen billys rack in person. AWSOME! that is all that could be expected coming from respeed though. IMO if someone is wanting a great R&P set up and doesnt go with respeed, youre making a mistake. if youve ever seen any of billys work youd know its top notch.
06-15-07, 12:50 AM
#48
Also out of curiosity, does the engine sit at the same position as stock or has that also been lowered to lower the center of gravity of the car further more? That would be another thing to look at if it hasn't been looked at. Or you could do something like 2 mounting positions, one at stock and the other about 1"-1.5" lower or something.
This drop would also help in a few other things:
People with the camden superchager get more clearance for an air cleaner,
Slightly better cooling to the engine due to it sitting more infront of the air dam
Enabling to put more velocity stacks on TBI's or webers or the likes.
If purchasing a vented hood from Fibermaz, any of the above should get cleared
Aid in cooling turbos
Cons:
The only one that I can think of would be the people with really big turbo, the rail on the passenger side would just be that much closer if not hitting depending on the manifold made for it.
I may be over looking a big thing with clearance of the rack and pinion ... but I'm just tossing the idea around.
This drop would also help in a few other things:
People with the camden superchager get more clearance for an air cleaner,
Slightly better cooling to the engine due to it sitting more infront of the air dam
Enabling to put more velocity stacks on TBI's or webers or the likes.
If purchasing a vented hood from Fibermaz, any of the above should get cleared
Aid in cooling turbos
Cons:
The only one that I can think of would be the people with really big turbo, the rail on the passenger side would just be that much closer if not hitting depending on the manifold made for it.
I may be over looking a big thing with clearance of the rack and pinion ... but I'm just tossing the idea around.
06-15-07, 07:28 AM
#49
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Any idea of the amount of steering angle this kit will allow? Im currently around 45*, with my frame being the limiting point with 32mm offset wheels. With different offset wheels i would love to be some where in the mid 50's up to be more competitive and consistent. I am truly very very hard on equipment, the amount of times ive hit the steering lock is taking toll on the box, and the steering wheel has broken a finger(damn 4 spoke wheel).
Adam
Adam
06-15-07, 08:13 AM
#50
Billy-
all i see in your CAD drawings are the mounts for the rack, do you have any patents pending so we can see what the actual rack and parts will look like? I'm in my second summer as an intern working with an OEM supplier, I work with the R&P group, and i'm curious about some of the part specs and materials your rack will use. I'm also curious about how you're testing your rack, your manufacturing techniques, etc. etc. Is there any way that you can elaborate, here or in a pm, on some specs?
all i see in your CAD drawings are the mounts for the rack, do you have any patents pending so we can see what the actual rack and parts will look like? I'm in my second summer as an intern working with an OEM supplier, I work with the R&P group, and i'm curious about some of the part specs and materials your rack will use. I'm also curious about how you're testing your rack, your manufacturing techniques, etc. etc. Is there any way that you can elaborate, here or in a pm, on some specs?