possabale 12aT
05-01-03, 02:41 AM
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possabale 12aT
Today I got a very nice offer on a series 2 that's been crashed (boost kicked in, in 3rd and steped out)
In this car is a Jspec 12aT, Series 5 trany. I'm not to sure how much of the rest of the car is usable but I still could use the rear brakes, electric windows, electric mirrors and all the other little things the S1 didn’t get/ or I need new of..
The guy selling it said it's got a turbo the size of a T04 turbo on it, with a wolf 3D efi computer, not sure if it's intercooled or not (haven't got stuck into him with the questions yet) and he claiming it had 220kw at the wheels, at was rebuilt 2000km ago.
Is 220 (293HP) possible from a 12aT?
i voued not spend anymoer money on this car and save for a new one, but i dont think thats ever gona happen..
In this car is a Jspec 12aT, Series 5 trany. I'm not to sure how much of the rest of the car is usable but I still could use the rear brakes, electric windows, electric mirrors and all the other little things the S1 didn’t get/ or I need new of..
The guy selling it said it's got a turbo the size of a T04 turbo on it, with a wolf 3D efi computer, not sure if it's intercooled or not (haven't got stuck into him with the questions yet) and he claiming it had 220kw at the wheels, at was rebuilt 2000km ago.
Is 220 (293HP) possible from a 12aT?
i voued not spend anymoer money on this car and save for a new one, but i dont think thats ever gona happen..
05-01-03, 03:54 AM
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wait for it.... wait for it.... ohhh, come on 680... where are you? 
293 is quite possible from a 12AT... a forum member here pumps out 680RWHP from his 12A... hence his name... "680RWHP12A"
I'm not sure what kind of hp numbers that this particular setup would produce however, as I know not a whole lot about forced induction stuff
293 is quite possible from a 12AT... a forum member here pumps out 680RWHP from his 12A... hence his name... "680RWHP12A"
I'm not sure what kind of hp numbers that this particular setup would produce however, as I know not a whole lot about forced induction stuff
05-01-03, 03:59 AM
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Originally posted by Keaponlaffen
293 is quite possible from a 12AT... a forum member here pumps out 680RWHP from his 12A... hence his name... "680RWHP12A"
293 is quite possible from a 12AT... a forum member here pumps out 680RWHP from his 12A... hence his name... "680RWHP12A"
but that engines a highly midified carburated engine..
i gota find out if this engine was ported when he did the rebuild..
i know 220kw is possable (sorry worded my question wrong) i should have asked, is it possable from just a turbo and ecu upgrade?
i will find out more about this car 2moro.. dam i want a turbo!
05-01-03, 06:37 AM
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Originally posted by Rotary7s
I dont think J spec 12at came with a t04
I dont think J spec 12at came with a t04
05-01-03, 06:48 AM
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sorry to be post whoring my own thread, but i found an interesting paragraph which answers my questions..
Applications of the 12AT: These engines quite literally bolt straight into an early RX-7. A stock non-turbo RX-7 5 speed gearbox would probably be OK with a standard engine, but a slightly stronger gearbox was used with the 12AT motor. These gearboxes also bolt straight in. Other cars which accept these engines without too much modification are RX-2,3,4,5. R100 will fit but I think it is tight/requires some further modifications such as relocation of the turbo. Realistically an RX-4 or RX-5 are too heavy for even a 12AT if you want some decent performance. The stock power is around 160BHP. As the engine is not intercooled in stock form, the addition of one will gain extra power (180-190hp) even with the stock boost . Evidently a stock engine with stock turbo and injectors with an intercooler and increased boost (about 12psi is the limit) is reliably capable of around 230-240hp.
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05-01-03, 07:23 PM
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djmickyo- I know the reference but its a mixture of data which could mislead.
First, the 160hp is JIS not SAE which would be about 138hp and that is at the flywheel.
Second, you can modify the 12AT with a s4/5 turbo, add an intercooler, high pressure fuel pump, and a modern ecu, its fairly common practise in Australia. Many RX2-3s went down this track before cheap secondhand 13BTs came on the market. This will give you about 240hp, say about 180hp at the wheels.
Third, you can 'super' modify the 12AT with a large turbo and extra injectors as 12at has done in Melbourne [full specs on Albys virtual garage] and get 300hp plus. Remember the 12BT will give 500hp in a street car. However, the transplant has to be competently done. Engine dowelling, upgraded transmission, driveshaft and diff should be considered as part of the total project. In reality, the work needed is similar to the 13BT 12second package from Rotorworx.
The usual problem is to know the state of the internals as without a recent rebuild it could be an expensive transplant. With only 2000km it should be ok. Unfortunatly you can't do a road test, so I suggest you check the compression. Anything below 95-100 requires second thoughts.
The price of a 12AT is around Aus$1200-1500 without the ecu. On a drive-in drive-out basis with upgraded ecu and turbo you can the transplant done for around $3500, Daltons are one of the several tuners who offer this as a standard package. However, most people think transplanting a 13BT is now the best option, as far lower mileage engines can be bought for the same price from importers/tuners like Dysons . This way you end up with a more reliable and powerful engine.
To sum-up, yes 300rwhp is possible with the 12AT given the larger turbo, upraded ecu, the s5 tranny and presumably an intercooler. With a rebuild only 2000km ago it should be in good condition, so if the price is right go for it.
First, the 160hp is JIS not SAE which would be about 138hp and that is at the flywheel.
Second, you can modify the 12AT with a s4/5 turbo, add an intercooler, high pressure fuel pump, and a modern ecu, its fairly common practise in Australia. Many RX2-3s went down this track before cheap secondhand 13BTs came on the market. This will give you about 240hp, say about 180hp at the wheels.
Third, you can 'super' modify the 12AT with a large turbo and extra injectors as 12at has done in Melbourne [full specs on Albys virtual garage] and get 300hp plus. Remember the 12BT will give 500hp in a street car. However, the transplant has to be competently done. Engine dowelling, upgraded transmission, driveshaft and diff should be considered as part of the total project. In reality, the work needed is similar to the 13BT 12second package from Rotorworx.
The usual problem is to know the state of the internals as without a recent rebuild it could be an expensive transplant. With only 2000km it should be ok. Unfortunatly you can't do a road test, so I suggest you check the compression. Anything below 95-100 requires second thoughts.
The price of a 12AT is around Aus$1200-1500 without the ecu. On a drive-in drive-out basis with upgraded ecu and turbo you can the transplant done for around $3500, Daltons are one of the several tuners who offer this as a standard package. However, most people think transplanting a 13BT is now the best option, as far lower mileage engines can be bought for the same price from importers/tuners like Dysons . This way you end up with a more reliable and powerful engine.
To sum-up, yes 300rwhp is possible with the 12AT given the larger turbo, upraded ecu, the s5 tranny and presumably an intercooler. With a rebuild only 2000km ago it should be in good condition, so if the price is right go for it.
Last edited by PaulFitzwarryne; 05-01-03 at 07:35 PM.
05-02-03, 01:47 AM
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Originally posted by Paul Fitzwarryne
has to be competently done. Engine dowelling, upgraded transmission, driveshaft and diff should be considered as part of the total project. In reality, the work needed is similar to the 13BT 12second package from Rotorworx.
has to be competently done. Engine dowelling, upgraded transmission, driveshaft and diff should be considered as part of the total project. In reality, the work needed is similar to the 13BT 12second package from Rotorworx.
I had done all the maths on getting a turbo (hasent everyone) and upgrading the full drive and what ever else is need and it was too ecpensive to do it right.
the engine has just been rebuilt with an extend port. the transmission is a S5. so all the hard work of atapting all the parts has already been done in the car that was rolled. i'll just be trasfuring all the good parts over to my car.. thats why im so keen on it, cus i know it shouldnt cost me too much more to do it all right..
05-02-03, 02:07 AM
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An extended port should help with a big turbo so 300hp is feasible. Stock is sufficient for a s4/5 turbo but not anything larger.
Out of interest, the 12AT was boosted by a Hitachi HT18-BM turbocharger with a 62mm diameter, 11-blade turbine and a 63mm 12-blade compressor supplying a boost of 6.2 psi. It was small to reduce turbo lag but ran at a high speed to increase flow
I agree about the cost of going turbo. Some figures I know about are twice the asking price of a good converted car.
Out of interest, the 12AT was boosted by a Hitachi HT18-BM turbocharger with a 62mm diameter, 11-blade turbine and a 63mm 12-blade compressor supplying a boost of 6.2 psi. It was small to reduce turbo lag but ran at a high speed to increase flow
I agree about the cost of going turbo. Some figures I know about are twice the asking price of a good converted car.
Last edited by PaulFitzwarryne; 05-02-03 at 02:24 AM.
05-02-03, 02:57 AM
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Minor point, for 12AT in the RX-7 the turbo was upgraded to the18S model with a 57mm turbine and 56mm compressor. The concept behind this designs was to have a small turbo to reduce lag but run them at a high speed to provide more power.
Hope your insurance company is friendly, mine did not want to cover a turbo but finally have agreed to a provisional 100% hike. Another company was friendly but quoted $4,200 a year.
Looks like you have a major winter project on your hands!
Hope your insurance company is friendly, mine did not want to cover a turbo but finally have agreed to a provisional 100% hike. Another company was friendly but quoted $4,200 a year.
Looks like you have a major winter project on your hands!
05-02-03, 03:18 AM
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Originally posted by Paul Fitzwarryne
Hope your insurance company is friendly, mine did not want to cover a turbo but finally have agreed to a provisional 100% hike. Another company was friendly but quoted $4,200 a year.
Hope your insurance company is friendly, mine did not want to cover a turbo but finally have agreed to a provisional 100% hike. Another company was friendly but quoted $4,200 a year.
insured with a with a company that has fleet
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