Please Help a Mazda Lover
04-25-05, 11:53 AM
#1
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Please Help a Mazda Lover
A good buddy of mine had his 1st gen RX7 destroyed by our race team truck and trailer about ten years ago. Since then he has b*(&^ched about how much he misses that car. He is going to be married next month so we have decided to correct the wrong by buying him a "new" one.
We want a running condition car with 13B motor (unlessplant motor is relatively ez). Location must be with in 1500 miles of Denver.
However we are not Mazda people and need a quick crash course in 1ST gen RX7's!!!!!!!!!!!
What should we know before buying?
How much should we be prepared to spend?
Where do we buy?
Do RX7's have trouble passing Colorado emissions?
What is the ATF cure?
What are unfixable problems (or problems that $ does not make sense to fix) on 1st gen RX7's?
We want a running condition car with 13B motor (unlessplant motor is relatively ez). Location must be with in 1500 miles of Denver.
However we are not Mazda people and need a quick crash course in 1ST gen RX7's!!!!!!!!!!!
What should we know before buying?
How much should we be prepared to spend?
Where do we buy?
Do RX7's have trouble passing Colorado emissions?
What is the ATF cure?
What are unfixable problems (or problems that $ does not make sense to fix) on 1st gen RX7's?
04-25-05, 12:22 PM
#2
finally back in an RX-7!!
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check the FAQ on this web page for a "quick crash course". my quick answers are:
only 13B first gen's are gsl-se's, but plant motor is in fact relatively easy.
I've seen them go for $0 (rare) to $4,000 on average, usually around $1,200-$1,500 for a decent running gsl-se, and $500 - $1,000 for a decent running non gsl-se
there is a section on this forum called RX-7's for sale, it's a good place to start
all RX-7's have trouble passing emission everywhere if it has all stock components, with a few new items (cat converter, air pump) you should be ok.
check the FAQ
Massive Rust, again, check the FAQ.
good luck!
only 13B first gen's are gsl-se's, but plant motor is in fact relatively easy.
I've seen them go for $0 (rare) to $4,000 on average, usually around $1,200-$1,500 for a decent running gsl-se, and $500 - $1,000 for a decent running non gsl-se
there is a section on this forum called RX-7's for sale, it's a good place to start
all RX-7's have trouble passing emission everywhere if it has all stock components, with a few new items (cat converter, air pump) you should be ok.
check the FAQ
Massive Rust, again, check the FAQ.
good luck!
04-25-05, 12:38 PM
#3
84SE-EGI helpy-helperton
Well, first off; welcome to the boards! Make sure that your friend knows that this board is out there for his use in troubleshooting his car, as since these are 20+ years old, they can tend to do some strange things that we've all run into.
Onto your questions;
What should we know before buying? - Before buying, you might want to research and find out what year car his 1st Gen was. If you're trying to replace a car that he loved, he may appreciate it more if he got the same year - if that's an option in your region. Build quality is very good on these cars, and there are G (12a stock), GS (12a, usually nicer interior/stereo), GSL (12a, performance, 4w disks, LSD), and GSL-SE (only in 84/85 years, 13b EFI engine, 4w vented disks, LSD, power everything). You're going to pay a premium for a GSL-SE because of the engine and demand - they were top of the line back then. With any car that's 20+ years old, if you shop for one, look for a clean body, clean title, and in good running condition. You can rebuild one completely for <$10k and that would be buying all NEW parts - if you want to save some $$$, the Pick-A-Part places can help out for less cost. Find a car that runs well to begin with, not one that he'll have to tweak to get it to run right. Get one that idles smoothly and drives quietly without a lot of bumps and thumps. Shop for the car like it was for you and he'll be a lot happier with it as a gift to him.
How much should we be prepared to spend? - 1st Gen cars ran from 1979 to 1985. Assuming clean body, engine runs, mileage around 150k-200k (normal at this age), earlier cars may pull a premium and be around $1200-$1500. GSL-SE's from 1984/85 will be about $2000+ depending on mods and condition. I've heard of SE's bought by guys here spending as much as $4k-$5k, but these are usually low mileage cars. $1500 will get you a good running car that should last him for 15k-20k miles before needing routine maintenance (other than oil changes).
Where do we buy? - Check out the 1st Gen Sales section at this site. You could also try the local newspaper listings and AutoTrader to see if you get lucky and find one in Denver that's in good shape.
Do RX7's have trouble passing Colorado emissions? - Emissions standards are everywhere these days, and most cars pass without problems with good cats and a proper tuneup. The CO standards shouldn't be that bad that you couldn't get the car to pass.
What is the ATF cure? - the 'ATF Trick' is using the carbon-eating qualities of Automatic Transmission Fluid to absorb any carbon deposits that may be inside the engine and clogging up corner, apex, and side seals and ruining compression. Usually used in cars that sit for a long period of time, the ATF trick should be reserved as a last-ditch-effort to free up seals in an engine that has lost compression. Not 100% effective, and has potential consequences that you'll want to be aware of. I wouldn't recommend buying a car that's not running well to do the ATF Trick on it - it most likely won't work. Some swear by it - I don't.
What are unfixable problems (or problems that $ does not make sense to fix) on 1st gen RX7's? - Rust tends to build inside the storage 'bins' behind the driver/pass seats (*under the plastic bins themselves). Take a Phillips-head screwdriver with you and check here for rust from the sunroof drains pooling water (only on 81+ cars, earlier cars don't have bins). Also check for rust underneath the car, and look for any major oil or coolant leaks on the engine block itself. Lines can be replaced easily, but oil leaking from between the engine 'sandwich' is a sure sign of a pending rebuild in the future. Same thing for a coolant level that must be continually topped-off - the coolant is leaking past the internal seals and being burned inside the engine (white smoke, sweet smell), or blue smoke that doesn't stop (oil burning). All of these are signs that the engine will need to be rebuilt at a cost of about $1000-$1500 depending on build quality and parts replacement.
In all, they're pretty easy to work on, parts are pretty cheap through on-line suppliers, and they're rewarding to drive. I think your friend will really enjoy getting one as a gift.
Reply back if you have any specific questions,
Onto your questions;
What should we know before buying? - Before buying, you might want to research and find out what year car his 1st Gen was. If you're trying to replace a car that he loved, he may appreciate it more if he got the same year - if that's an option in your region. Build quality is very good on these cars, and there are G (12a stock), GS (12a, usually nicer interior/stereo), GSL (12a, performance, 4w disks, LSD), and GSL-SE (only in 84/85 years, 13b EFI engine, 4w vented disks, LSD, power everything). You're going to pay a premium for a GSL-SE because of the engine and demand - they were top of the line back then. With any car that's 20+ years old, if you shop for one, look for a clean body, clean title, and in good running condition. You can rebuild one completely for <$10k and that would be buying all NEW parts - if you want to save some $$$, the Pick-A-Part places can help out for less cost. Find a car that runs well to begin with, not one that he'll have to tweak to get it to run right. Get one that idles smoothly and drives quietly without a lot of bumps and thumps. Shop for the car like it was for you and he'll be a lot happier with it as a gift to him.
How much should we be prepared to spend? - 1st Gen cars ran from 1979 to 1985. Assuming clean body, engine runs, mileage around 150k-200k (normal at this age), earlier cars may pull a premium and be around $1200-$1500. GSL-SE's from 1984/85 will be about $2000+ depending on mods and condition. I've heard of SE's bought by guys here spending as much as $4k-$5k, but these are usually low mileage cars. $1500 will get you a good running car that should last him for 15k-20k miles before needing routine maintenance (other than oil changes).
Where do we buy? - Check out the 1st Gen Sales section at this site. You could also try the local newspaper listings and AutoTrader to see if you get lucky and find one in Denver that's in good shape.
Do RX7's have trouble passing Colorado emissions? - Emissions standards are everywhere these days, and most cars pass without problems with good cats and a proper tuneup. The CO standards shouldn't be that bad that you couldn't get the car to pass.
What is the ATF cure? - the 'ATF Trick' is using the carbon-eating qualities of Automatic Transmission Fluid to absorb any carbon deposits that may be inside the engine and clogging up corner, apex, and side seals and ruining compression. Usually used in cars that sit for a long period of time, the ATF trick should be reserved as a last-ditch-effort to free up seals in an engine that has lost compression. Not 100% effective, and has potential consequences that you'll want to be aware of. I wouldn't recommend buying a car that's not running well to do the ATF Trick on it - it most likely won't work. Some swear by it - I don't.
What are unfixable problems (or problems that $ does not make sense to fix) on 1st gen RX7's? - Rust tends to build inside the storage 'bins' behind the driver/pass seats (*under the plastic bins themselves). Take a Phillips-head screwdriver with you and check here for rust from the sunroof drains pooling water (only on 81+ cars, earlier cars don't have bins). Also check for rust underneath the car, and look for any major oil or coolant leaks on the engine block itself. Lines can be replaced easily, but oil leaking from between the engine 'sandwich' is a sure sign of a pending rebuild in the future. Same thing for a coolant level that must be continually topped-off - the coolant is leaking past the internal seals and being burned inside the engine (white smoke, sweet smell), or blue smoke that doesn't stop (oil burning). All of these are signs that the engine will need to be rebuilt at a cost of about $1000-$1500 depending on build quality and parts replacement.
In all, they're pretty easy to work on, parts are pretty cheap through on-line suppliers, and they're rewarding to drive. I think your friend will really enjoy getting one as a gift.
Reply back if you have any specific questions,
04-25-05, 04:53 PM
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Thank you for the head start! I'll be researching the faqs tonight. This site is great. Its funny I would be here looking at this stuff. When my friend lost his car we where acting as crew for a SCCA ITS 240z. Our main competition drove a 2nd generation 7. At the time I hated RX7's with a passion but always respected the cars.
I do have one question that I don't think will make the FAQ..... Is it smart to buy a car with a 13b rather than buying a 12a car in better shape?
The original car was a 12a, but I know he would rather have the 13b. I guess it's part of being around racing is every bit of horsepower on paper seems important. But reality is a different story. What is your experience?
BTW the original car was 1984 or 83, st!t brown, 12a, with no power anything. Exactly replacing the car is not an option. I drove the car once, on a short road course, and it seemed weak on horse power but the handling was sweet for a street car.
This time I think it would be best to start with a good base to build on. Even if it doesn't run immediately.
I do have one question that I don't think will make the FAQ..... Is it smart to buy a car with a 13b rather than buying a 12a car in better shape?
The original car was a 12a, but I know he would rather have the 13b. I guess it's part of being around racing is every bit of horsepower on paper seems important. But reality is a different story. What is your experience?
BTW the original car was 1984 or 83, st!t brown, 12a, with no power anything. Exactly replacing the car is not an option. I drove the car once, on a short road course, and it seemed weak on horse power but the handling was sweet for a street car.
This time I think it would be best to start with a good base to build on. Even if it doesn't run immediately.
04-25-05, 05:03 PM
#5
boost my 7
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Well...if you are feeling really motivated...you can rebuild and/or port an engine if horsepower is what you are looking for... www.nopistons.com ...then go to the porting thread 
And as far as 12a vs 13b...you can always get more power out of a 13b...because the engine has greater displacement...how much you ask? Well...stock...12a puts out about 100hp and the 13b puts out about 130hp...HOWEVER...if you buy a car with a bum 12a...you can pull and rebuild and port that engine and EASILY get 130hp out of the 12a...just some food for thought...
But...since mazda just stopped making 12a engine parts...you MAY wanna go the route of a 13b due to simplicity's sake.
And as far as 12a vs 13b...you can always get more power out of a 13b...because the engine has greater displacement...how much you ask? Well...stock...12a puts out about 100hp and the 13b puts out about 130hp...HOWEVER...if you buy a car with a bum 12a...you can pull and rebuild and port that engine and EASILY get 130hp out of the 12a...just some food for thought...
But...since mazda just stopped making 12a engine parts...you MAY wanna go the route of a 13b due to simplicity's sake.
04-26-05, 05:38 PM
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Well I think I found the found the car but as predicted the 12a vs 13b question has come up. The car is 6 miles from my house . The car is a 12a but the body is much better than any RX7 for sale locally. The engine running but is at 140k miles. A rebuild would be best but not required right now.
So for the future pulling the 12a motor and rebuilding would be no sweat but discontinued engine parts concern me. I know the SCCA is currently spec'ing the 12a in at least three categories. Also the SCCA has a long standing tradition of spec'ing motors that are out of date and hard to find.
Therefore I can only assume every SCCA guy is gathering up and hoarding every 12a part they can find. If I were still running a car I would collect a house full of the stuff. That said, am I concerned too soon? Will we easily find the parts or will it be junkyard wars?
. The car is a 12a but the body is much better than any RX7 for sale locally. The engine running but is at 140k miles. A rebuild would be best but not required right now. So for the future pulling the 12a motor and rebuilding would be no sweat but discontinued engine parts concern me. I know the SCCA is currently spec'ing the 12a in at least three categories. Also the SCCA has a long standing tradition of spec'ing motors that are out of date and hard to find.
Therefore I can only assume every SCCA guy is gathering up and hoarding every 12a part they can find. If I were still running a car I would collect a house full of the stuff. That said, am I concerned too soon? Will we easily find the parts or will it be junkyard wars?
04-26-05, 06:00 PM
#7
84SE-EGI helpy-helperton
Hey, you'll find more 12a engine parts than 13b engine parts through any supplier or junkyard; reason being that there were far more 12a cars imported (1st Gen RX-7's and even the earlier REPU, RX-2/3/4) between 1979 and 1985.
I would be surprised if anyone got to a point that they were unable to find 12a engine parts.
I'm glad you found a car near you - any pictures? How about cost?
I would be surprised if anyone got to a point that they were unable to find 12a engine parts.
I'm glad you found a car near you - any pictures? How about cost?
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