DriveFast7

iTrader: (1)

That's looking pretty sweet Mel. Chrome surface looks good from the pics. Who threaded the tubes in there?

Siraniko

iTrader: (13)

Remember the $400 RX-4? It came with the 2 GSL-SE p-ported housings, 4 centerline rims and 2 epsilons. Just the free parts are worth more than $2,000 considering that a brand new housing is $700. So my turbo project is again on hold. I hope to roll to Sevenstock with a P-Port and 100-150 shot of NOS.

cdrad51

That trailer is priceless Blake. Love it!

DriveFast7

iTrader: (1)

Here's a good start on a 12a PP jammer, $1800:

https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=389518

GUZZLR

The reason people say that a PP is not for the street is because they have little to no driveability!
they can be driven on the street although you would need a lot of patience.....

Blake

WTF? How many have you driven? My guess is exactly ZERO! Did you bother to read my post, above, where I said they drive perfectly fine and exhibit a nice, flat torque curve? Are you calling me a liar or suggesting I am not smart enough to know that my car is unstreetable, even after 8,000 miles in 10 days?

d0 Luck

http://www.treesandturtles.com/2005TacDynoDay/

just saw the vid. of the guy w/ the pport and i am very impressed w/ that guy's numbers. i am convinced that p-port can be daily driven, and since other members on this forum testifies by it, it shouldn't be all that bad neither

rotary emotions

Why is it that people tend to think PP is not streetable??? All early (pre Mazda etc) Wankel rotaries were PP. The only reason the went "kaboom" is because seals weren't of current quality.
It ain't the PP design that makes most PP engines unstreetable; it's the fact that they are mainly build as pure race engines. They'll have HUGE carbs and HUGE exhausts, that's what makes a lot of them a bit nasty, not the port design as such. One of the smoothest cars of all time, the NSU Ro80, had a PP engine, and if rebuild with decent seals it will last 100.000miles. But that won't be a race engine!
So basicly the idea is that a PP can be build either streetable or not just the way you want.

Alak

iTrader: (9)

PP engines are quite loud though for streetability. I for one wouldn't want to be pulling into my driveway late at night with one.

On another note, I do know a guy with a Freshly Rebuilt 12A PP. Its the whole engine minus intake and exhaust. Last I heard he wanted $3000 for it. Never been used.

crpdragracing

Wasn't the Cosmo PP from factory?

Gregs

You plan on porting those exhaust ports? those look stock from what i can see

Siraniko

iTrader: (13)

This is the initial stage. Still got to fill-up the holes and port the exhaust. The plates that Im using is the 84 12-A with small intake ports.

A friend of mine, including Rotarx7, got a daily driver R-100 with a factory 12-A P-P. He picked up that engine during a bbq party at Rotarx7's house from another friend for $500. the seller came after I left

DriveFast7

iTrader: (1)

Curious:
How big were the early factory peripheral intake ports?

What rpm did they idle at?

What rpm was peak hp and torque at?

Snapshot

The ability to successfully muffle the car for the street & not strangle it is a big problem. Also to run it at low RPMs at stop lights through town tends to build up carbon. I had enough problems w/ that w/ my 1st big street port as do several friends w/ bridge ports. I think I could get away w/ a PP in Georgia since there is no inspection but it wouldn’t be a consideration for daily driver. Just my opinion.

Blake

Where are you getting your information? Obviously, it's not first hand, so you must be listening to someone who claims experience. First you say they are "race only", which is wrong, then you say they build up carbon when driving around town. What is that based on? If you are having carbon build up in any rotary engine, get the damn thing tuned right!

One of my best friends drove his peripheral port 13B rotary truck daily for, oh, probably 3 years. His name is Rob Golden, owner of Pineapple Racing. Please call him: 503-233-3878. I've also known several others who drive or have driven them daily, including CJ Brault (PP13BNOS, I think is his user name on here). Not once have I ever heard of excessive carbon build up from daily driving on a properly tuned engine. It certainly never happened to me, though most of my experience was highway.

Also, before someone says something about a high idle, mine idled at 1,200-1,500 rpm, which is not all that high. Noise is the only real downside to a peripheral port, though there are things that can be done to effectively muffle them without hurting performance too much. Mine was all-out race prepared, so it was loud as hell, but Rob's PP13B rotary truck is actually resonably quiet.

Blake

Yes, plus it was an all-aluminum engine!

Also, as someone mentioned, the NSU Ro80 was a Peripheral Port 10A. I've ridden in one in Germany and was very impressed. It is a very unassuming little family-type car with a semiautomatic transmission (you select gears with a stick, but there is no clutch) but considerably quicker than you would ever expect. Very quiet too.

Snapshot

[QUOTE=Blake]Where are you getting your information? Obviously, it's not first hand, so you must be listening to someone who claims experience. First you say they are "race only", which is wrong, then you say they build up carbon when driving around town. What is that based on? If you are having carbon build up in any rotary engine, get the damn thing tuned right!


Perhaps you know something my engine builder doesn't. To get the balance between street & high rev race mixture is all but alchemy. I've had it both ways but not all at once.

Blake

It's not even remotely alchemy! This is Tuning 101. Non-turbo rotary engines never need much more than a slightly richer than stoich mixture anywhere in the power band, up to and including the 11,000 RPM I used to run to in my PP13B. Once you use up the oxygen, any extra fuel is completely wasted...unless you have a turbo engine at high boost and take advantage of the charge-cooling effect of the evaporation.

rotary emotions

aaahhh, a Ro80 isn't small by any means. My Ro80 is larger then my Mazda 626 (daily driver) and it's 11cm (about 4inch) longer then the current Mazda 6.
The rest is true: it's quiet, smooth, and PP. It ain't a 10A as such, as it has nothing to do with Mazda, but the NSU engine is indeed PP.
Ports are rather small though, and the car is a bit strangled, as the carbs are too small. Mostly because of poor seals back then, the Ro80 engines weren't tuned to their full capacity. Later experiments with larger/better carbs or FI showed a more powerfull engine (instead of only 115hp, still not bad for a 1968 car with only 1.0l engine!)

rotary emotions

ports were rather small. they always needed to be on the safe side, because of poor seals.
idle was pretty normal, around 1000rpm.
115hp at 5500rpm isn't very racy either is it? Later experiments with better carbs etc meant more hp (about 150) at civilised rpm levels.

for those wanting to know a bit more (most is in dutch, but good pics):
http://www.ro80.nl/

mcnannay

hey blake, what kind of rotor housings did you have?? im really curious about you old pp setup, especially since it seemed so streetable, do you have any dyno numbers or anything like that? Basically what im wanting to know is how extreme the ports were on that, i believe what you say that it was streetable but its just crazy how every thing else i read is the opposite.

I would love to have a PP if it weren't so non cost efficient, it would be so much easier to gain that horsepower with forced induction, but what fun is that??? everbody has a turbo right!

Blake

Thanks for the clarifications. My memory is a bit hazy in some respects. It was about four and a half years ago and I was still recovering from a night at Oktoberfest when I got my ride. Perhaps you know the guy...Edelhard Becker, in Entringen, near Stuttgart? He is (or was) very active in the Swiss NSU Ro80 club. Forgive me calling the motor a 10A. Obviously, the NSU motor preceeded the 10A. They are dimensionally identical, correct? I got the chicken and egg confused.

Blake

The housings were fabricated by Rob Golden at Pineapple Racing. They were early prototypes made many years prior, used in a carbon seal motor with more than 40,000 miles (all street). I believe the ports were ~2-inch ID, but that's a guess. The carb was a 51IDA and the exhaust was totally custom fabricated for maximum scavenging (the key to a broad power band). The only dyno runs I did were at Rotary Performance in Garland, TX. Unfortunately, there was a serious tuning issue we were trying to solve so I never got a "good" number. We thought it was leaning out at high RPM (the wideband was reading 16.9:1 AFR at 10,000rpm!), so we messed around with air bleeds and whatnot. Only later did I realize that I had dialed back the timing too far, so the lean reading was just a fantom of not getting a complete burn. Still, the RWHP number was not too shabby, given the mis-tuning...around 225, IIRC. When I dialed the timing back in, it was a whole 'nuther car.

Feel free to call Rob Golden if you want more information on the engine; he built it, not me. Also, it's a real long shot but you could contact Ari Yallon or Chris Ott at Rotary Performance to see if they still have the dyno charts (keep in mind this was a couple years ago and it was off-the-clock, as a favor).

Siraniko

iTrader: (13)

blake,
what size exhaust did you use for the P-Port set up.

Thanks

d0 Luck

i used straight pipe 2" all way

your welcome