No Compression, No Start
12-21-07, 10:30 AM
#26
Just another opinion, everyone was got one... I would take the thermal reactor, which is what the exhaust manifold contraption was called pre-catalytic converter. THen you will have access to the apex seals. As you spin the motor push on each spring. See if any are stuck. It is a bit of a pain to get the thermal reactor off, but I believe you do not need to take the intake mani off to do so if memory serves me well. At this point you will know whether the apex seals are good, which means your life is good. You will troubleshoot the things mentioned on here, spend a few bucks here and there, and get on the road. If they are broken or stuck, or springs are flattened, you will need to decide to rebuild or to swap. The 450 price for everything sounds good to me, except you will need to bolt up the tranny on your own and change the front cover to a gsl-se 13b cover so it can sit on the factory engine mounts.
Buena suerte!
Buena suerte!
12-22-07, 02:20 PM
#28
MagickNinja
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I thought Grumpy was Sterlings job. 
Before you do anything else, go check the tail pipe (you say WTF) But you never know if it is clogged up.
Next buy another set of plugs, Once a set is wet they need to be cleaned and dried very well before using again. If you can, get a set of the Denso plugs.
Have you charged the Optmia? Another thing to do it put a Jumpstart Charger on it while trying to start the car. 200 amp boost and a good battery can do wonders for a car.
My old stand by is the pull start, Fustezed with cars all day and then pulled them 1/4 mile to start them, Only had one not start with a pull and it had a Dead rear rotor.
On compression, 3 phussus is good but put your thumb over the hole and make sure it has pressure. I did not see it but you did test front and rear?
When you turn the Key on, is fuel running into the carb? or only when you pump it?
We ask the same questions 5 times cause you should check them 5 times, I have pulled Plug wires that had good spark and them have Green all over the contacts. Melted Rotor Caps, One Cap contact burnt but hard to see, The cheep caps with AL contacts that get crusty.
Before you do anything else, go check the tail pipe (you say WTF) But you never know if it is clogged up.
Next buy another set of plugs, Once a set is wet they need to be cleaned and dried very well before using again. If you can, get a set of the Denso plugs.
Have you charged the Optmia? Another thing to do it put a Jumpstart Charger on it while trying to start the car. 200 amp boost and a good battery can do wonders for a car.
My old stand by is the pull start, Fustezed with cars all day and then pulled them 1/4 mile to start them, Only had one not start with a pull and it had a Dead rear rotor.
On compression, 3 phussus is good but put your thumb over the hole and make sure it has pressure. I did not see it but you did test front and rear?
When you turn the Key on, is fuel running into the carb? or only when you pump it?
We ask the same questions 5 times cause you should check them 5 times, I have pulled Plug wires that had good spark and them have Green all over the contacts. Melted Rotor Caps, One Cap contact burnt but hard to see, The cheep caps with AL contacts that get crusty.
When testing the compression we pulled the bottom radiator side plug, we heard 3 PSHHH sounds and when my brother placed his thumb over the hole, he said he could feel suction between his thumb and the plug hole. We did not test the rear because in the thread I read it said to only check L1.
The Optima is brand new, and we did have it hooked to a charger on days where we were cranking alot and draining the battery. I've actually bought a second cheaper battery to use for troubleshooting and cranking so I don't ruin my Optima. Those batteries are anything but cheap.
Ok, this time I laughed and didn't get grumpy...I've already said this in 2 posts.
The car is an automatic. This can be found in my original post. And in another when I stated I hate automatic transmissions and wanted a 5speed which is why I asked if an 88 13B 5speed would or would not bolt up to the 1st gen 12A. But as I said, I'm laughing, not angry.
12-22-07, 02:51 PM
#29
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My brother messed with the timing alittle, but concluded it only made it worse not better. His opinion was it was best where it originally was. And as I stated in the beginning, this car was a perfectly fine runner when it got parked. My younger brother didn't make any modifications to the car, only tried to get it started. So, the distributor was replaced when the car was running and ran afterwards as well.
I'm thinking its the carb, between seeing corroded inlets, the engine flooding constantly, and gas spraying out of the top, I'm starting there. I'm atleast going to clean everything out. My father has been a mechanic for 30 years. Not a backyard mechanic either, he's certified in almost every automotive company except exotics like Jaguar and such. He's worked on these cars before, and its of his opinion that any car thats sat for years needs the carb gone through first. I mentioned tapping the carb and his response was "If the car sat that long, those floats could be so gummed up and stuck that no amount of beating on them will help, and if they are, it's your cause for the flooding"
I own a suzuki crotch rocket that when I purchased would not run. It only sat for 2 years in a garage and covered with the tank emptied. My father reminded me how bad all 4 mikuni's were when we pulled them off. They were so bad, each carb has to be soaked in an oscillating parts cleaner for a week. This reminder is making me check the carb first.
I can't answer your question about the gas coming in when the key is on or only when I open up the carb as I'm usually the one sitting in the car cranking it. And as I've stated before, the key for the car broke. My brother had to pull the back of the ignition so we could crank it with a screw driver. And when doing this, you can't turn it to on and it stay, it automatically wants to spring back to off. I turn it to on and hold it there, all dummy lights light up, heater kicks on (if its on) and oddly my RPM guage will shoot up to 7,000 on a great charge, 4,000 on a decent charge. I make sure the fuel pump is making noise and then turn it the bit more it needs to crank. When cranking the RPM guage drops and bounces between 1 and 3,000. I've been told this is normal until the car starts and the RPM's can properly be read.
I wanted to change the ignition out for a new one. They are only $40 at Schucks. But I'm running into problems. First, I'm being told by my brother you cannot remove that ignition without the key. Second, the key is broken in a way that it cannot be copied to make new. It has been twisted pretty bad and eventually snapped. I'm thinking of calling my local junk yard and finding a 78/79 parts car that I can steal the entire steering column from. What do you think?
12-22-07, 03:01 PM
#30
MagickNinja
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Just another opinion, everyone was got one... I would take the thermal reactor, which is what the exhaust manifold contraption was called pre-catalytic converter. THen you will have access to the apex seals. As you spin the motor push on each spring. See if any are stuck. It is a bit of a pain to get the thermal reactor off, but I believe you do not need to take the intake mani off to do so if memory serves me well. At this point you will know whether the apex seals are good, which means your life is good. You will troubleshoot the things mentioned on here, spend a few bucks here and there, and get on the road. If they are broken or stuck, or springs are flattened, you will need to decide to rebuild or to swap. The 450 price for everything sounds good to me, except you will need to bolt up the tranny on your own and change the front cover to a gsl-se 13b cover so it can sit on the factory engine mounts.
Buena suerte!
Buena suerte!
What do you mean bolt up the tranny on my own? On my own motor? Or do you simply mean I have to do the job myself?
12-22-07, 03:09 PM
#31
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Start with the carb, don't start tearing parts off yet. If the carb is pouring fuel out the top, either the fuel cut solenoid isn't plugged or it's non-op or the carb needs gone through. At the very least the floats may be sticking.
I'll be happy to give you a provisionary welcome, providing you start using paragraphs.
If you haven't read through the no start thread and Sterling's carb write ups in the FAQs, do so. Those will give you a sound basis to begin trouble shooting.
Btw, where's your dipstick?
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I'll be happy to give you a provisionary welcome, providing you start using paragraphs.
If you haven't read through the no start thread and Sterling's carb write ups in the FAQs, do so. Those will give you a sound basis to begin trouble shooting.Btw, where's your dipstick?
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12-22-07, 03:50 PM
#32
MagickNinja
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OK, 1 more post for today. I just wanna say, if you guys want pictures of anything (pertaining to the car lol) just ask. I'll be glad to snap photos of specific motor parts, the interior ignition, whatever it is if you think it will help.
I read a thread lastnight about carb swaps. First off, its of my fathers opinion that Delortos are junk. I'm sure just stating this will start a war lol. He says webers are very good carbs but I ain't shellin out that kinda cash, especially when people are saying they perform no better than a modified nikki.
Which brings me to the next part...Holley's. My father is a firm believer in Holleys and I don't question anything he has to say pertaining to performance. I have like 10 holley's lying around my shed. And one particular my brother gave me, is a Holley 650 double pumper street avenger. Now I know what your going to say...too big right? I'm not using the entire carb, its spread is too big. There is one advantage of this carb tho, that some people have overlooked pertaining to our cars.
In the carb swap section, many say the 650s are too big, and even when they are jetted down, they flood the motor on hard left turns. I was thrilled to think to myself, I know why, finally I can contribute.
Those 650s are side hung floats. In a drift, or extreme left hand turn, the floats are allowed to open more than they should, flooding the engine. This is where the street avenger comes in. It was pulled from a Dodge 440 pickup truck, and it has center hung floats. Swapping these parts from the street avenger to a stock 650 and jetting it down would make an excellent carb for our cars. Unless of course your planning to get your car completely vertical.
You can achieve the same thing by ordering yourself an off-road kit for your specific carb. Since our cars are not going to be doing hill climbs or rock crawling anytime soon, this application will allow you to run your 650s without flooding issues.
I'm writing this because upon doing some calculating on performance parts, I couldn't believe how ridiculous it is. A small holley, practically the same intake manifold, and IMO a dumb looking air cleaner for $800? Why?
Take your manifold, unscrew all the emissions crap, go to your local hardware store, get the stuff you need to properly plug these holes, buy a dremel tool and port the sob yourself.
Find a holley 650 laying around. This can be much easier than you think, they are extremely common and can be found in junkyards, bargain bins, or in your buddies shed. Ask any of your hardcore muscle/american car buddies, they probably have 1 or 2 laying around that only need rebuilt(or buy one of the hundreds I have laying around). Then add the off-road kit, jet it down abit and buy yourself the kinda air cleaner you want.
Booya...you just upped your HP, removed alot of headache addons, and saved yourself some serious cash. I know there is abit more to it than this, but if your mechanically inclined, your following what I'm saying.
Once I get the stock nikki cleaned, and reinstalled, I'm gonna get the car running, as soon as I know it runs, I'll be doing exactly what I just said.
BTW, I tried to add this to the thread where they were discussing these things and it wouldn't allow me. I don't know why. Maybe one of you other members can copy and post. Or maybe you all think I'm wrong, but I've discussed this with 3 different mechanics, one being a racing engine technition, and they were the ones telling me to save my money and do these things to increase HP and reduce the headache.
I read a thread lastnight about carb swaps. First off, its of my fathers opinion that Delortos are junk. I'm sure just stating this will start a war lol. He says webers are very good carbs but I ain't shellin out that kinda cash, especially when people are saying they perform no better than a modified nikki.
Which brings me to the next part...Holley's. My father is a firm believer in Holleys and I don't question anything he has to say pertaining to performance. I have like 10 holley's lying around my shed. And one particular my brother gave me, is a Holley 650 double pumper street avenger. Now I know what your going to say...too big right? I'm not using the entire carb, its spread is too big. There is one advantage of this carb tho, that some people have overlooked pertaining to our cars.
In the carb swap section, many say the 650s are too big, and even when they are jetted down, they flood the motor on hard left turns. I was thrilled to think to myself, I know why, finally I can contribute.
Those 650s are side hung floats. In a drift, or extreme left hand turn, the floats are allowed to open more than they should, flooding the engine. This is where the street avenger comes in. It was pulled from a Dodge 440 pickup truck, and it has center hung floats. Swapping these parts from the street avenger to a stock 650 and jetting it down would make an excellent carb for our cars. Unless of course your planning to get your car completely vertical.
You can achieve the same thing by ordering yourself an off-road kit for your specific carb. Since our cars are not going to be doing hill climbs or rock crawling anytime soon, this application will allow you to run your 650s without flooding issues.
I'm writing this because upon doing some calculating on performance parts, I couldn't believe how ridiculous it is. A small holley, practically the same intake manifold, and IMO a dumb looking air cleaner for $800? Why?
Take your manifold, unscrew all the emissions crap, go to your local hardware store, get the stuff you need to properly plug these holes, buy a dremel tool and port the sob yourself.
Find a holley 650 laying around. This can be much easier than you think, they are extremely common and can be found in junkyards, bargain bins, or in your buddies shed. Ask any of your hardcore muscle/american car buddies, they probably have 1 or 2 laying around that only need rebuilt(or buy one of the hundreds I have laying around). Then add the off-road kit, jet it down abit and buy yourself the kinda air cleaner you want.
Booya...you just upped your HP, removed alot of headache addons, and saved yourself some serious cash. I know there is abit more to it than this, but if your mechanically inclined, your following what I'm saying.
Once I get the stock nikki cleaned, and reinstalled, I'm gonna get the car running, as soon as I know it runs, I'll be doing exactly what I just said.
BTW, I tried to add this to the thread where they were discussing these things and it wouldn't allow me. I don't know why. Maybe one of you other members can copy and post. Or maybe you all think I'm wrong, but I've discussed this with 3 different mechanics, one being a racing engine technition, and they were the ones telling me to save my money and do these things to increase HP and reduce the headache.
12-22-07, 06:55 PM
#33
Why is RBs setup 800 bucks, because they've done the research, testing, tuning, mods, etc. to make a Holley work on a rotary. I'm a Holley fan too, for V8s, not rotarys. I've sold all the ones I had off because I find them a pita to work with on a rotary, and I do have some experience tuning them. If you want to have a go at making one work on your engine, have at it. When you finally get frustrated with it or find that the Weber, Dellorto and Mikuni guys are out running you and having less problems tuning, come back and ask for suggestions.
Not trying to be a smart ***, just relating personal experience. Btw, carb and tuning suggestions from guys that work only on piston engines does not translate well into the rotary world. What works there won't always work here. That's one of the big differences when it rotarys. For example, if you haven't done a full exhaust swap with yet, that's the first mod to do for engine performance. While you may see 5-15% gain on a piston engine, you will see a 25-30% gain on a rotary.
Not trying to be a smart ***, just relating personal experience. Btw, carb and tuning suggestions from guys that work only on piston engines does not translate well into the rotary world. What works there won't always work here. That's one of the big differences when it rotarys. For example, if you haven't done a full exhaust swap with yet, that's the first mod to do for engine performance. While you may see 5-15% gain on a piston engine, you will see a 25-30% gain on a rotary.
12-23-07, 03:14 PM
#34
MagickNinja
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Well, my brother and I finally pulled the carb and took it apart. Oddly, the floats were stuck closed, not open. My father tells me what happened is while they were stuck closed, the fuel pump kept adding pressure, which pushed the gas back into the return line and flooded the carb. It might have been more specific than that, I don't remember.
Almost every jet in the carb was completely clogged. We took it apart, and cleaned every jet, and got the floats working properly. I wanted to simplify the carb but the thread on here to simplify is for 83+ not 78. I don't know what some of the extras are, I took some photos and my father said most of it wasn't needed. It was all junk for idle compensation for AC and other dumb ****. I don't even have AC. Someone already removed the AC pump.
I also looked at the "Removing the rats nest on a 12A" thread, but the diagrams are confusing to me, some of the things do not look similar to mine at all. I have the book and it's not helping, I looked at the Carb Rebuild Manual on wenkel.com and its not helping either. Every picture and diagram is different than my carb. I wish I just had a simple picture of the carb, and detailed arrows of what everything is. But this is proving to be hard to find. And when I do, its not my carb. I know its a Nikki, it says it right on the carb.
I keep saying we should put it all back together exactly how it was and try to start the car, but my father and brother keep insisting to remove the extras. I think this is a mistake. Once we know the car runs we can follow the tutorial on how to remove the bullshit and then do it. If we remove something important, the car still won't start, and will only send us in other directions when it could simply be something we did to the carb. I am going to insist we put it together exactly as it was. But I feel confident that the carb has been the problem from the start. I'm hoping she will fire up now. Wish me luck!
Almost every jet in the carb was completely clogged. We took it apart, and cleaned every jet, and got the floats working properly. I wanted to simplify the carb but the thread on here to simplify is for 83+ not 78. I don't know what some of the extras are, I took some photos and my father said most of it wasn't needed. It was all junk for idle compensation for AC and other dumb ****. I don't even have AC. Someone already removed the AC pump.
I also looked at the "Removing the rats nest on a 12A" thread, but the diagrams are confusing to me, some of the things do not look similar to mine at all. I have the book and it's not helping, I looked at the Carb Rebuild Manual on wenkel.com and its not helping either. Every picture and diagram is different than my carb. I wish I just had a simple picture of the carb, and detailed arrows of what everything is. But this is proving to be hard to find. And when I do, its not my carb. I know its a Nikki, it says it right on the carb.
I keep saying we should put it all back together exactly how it was and try to start the car, but my father and brother keep insisting to remove the extras. I think this is a mistake. Once we know the car runs we can follow the tutorial on how to remove the bullshit and then do it. If we remove something important, the car still won't start, and will only send us in other directions when it could simply be something we did to the carb. I am going to insist we put it together exactly as it was. But I feel confident that the carb has been the problem from the start. I'm hoping she will fire up now. Wish me luck!
12-23-07, 03:15 PM
#35
MagickNinja
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Why is RBs setup 800 bucks, because they've done the research, testing, tuning, mods, etc. to make a Holley work on a rotary. I'm a Holley fan too, for V8s, not rotarys. I've sold all the ones I had off because I find them a pita to work with on a rotary, and I do have some experience tuning them. If you want to have a go at making one work on your engine, have at it. When you finally get frustrated with it or find that the Weber, Dellorto and Mikuni guys are out running you and having less problems tuning, come back and ask for suggestions.
Not trying to be a smart ***, just relating personal experience. Btw, carb and tuning suggestions from guys that work only on piston engines does not translate well into the rotary world. What works there won't always work here. That's one of the big differences when it rotarys. For example, if you haven't done a full exhaust swap with yet, that's the first mod to do for engine performance. While you may see 5-15% gain on a piston engine, you will see a 25-30% gain on a rotary.
Not trying to be a smart ***, just relating personal experience. Btw, carb and tuning suggestions from guys that work only on piston engines does not translate well into the rotary world. What works there won't always work here. That's one of the big differences when it rotarys. For example, if you haven't done a full exhaust swap with yet, that's the first mod to do for engine performance. While you may see 5-15% gain on a piston engine, you will see a 25-30% gain on a rotary.
12-23-07, 08:15 PM
#37
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well upon looking into Weber carbs, they have no choke. So thats completely out of the question.
I've discussed this extensively with my father, and he says your right and wrong. Their are small differences in piston and rotaries, but any motor is basically a big compressor. He's recommended running a Holley 500 CFM 2 barrel, but I can't find a 2 port intake. Of course I could make or find an adapter 2 to 4 plate. Or run a 450CFM 4 barrel but the only one I can find is non choke as well and is meant to run in a dual carb situation and cannot be used as a singular carb.
I know the stock Nikki runs 313 CFM, but I've been reading about people putting all the way up to a Holley 650cfm. The only compromise I can find is a 570CFM 4 barrel for around $350. Which is a hell of a lot better than the $550 racing beat wants for their 465CFM carb. It sounds to me like their "modification" is a simple jetting, nothing worth an extra $200.
And of course any site that wants you to buy anything they have, they'll talk it up. Read racing beats page, every carb/intake setup they offer is "the best for rotories" They are lookin for a buck and can't even decide which is the best.
I know what your saying, and I appreciate your opinion, but my father seems to think you just didn't tune your Holley correctly. Of course you can disagree, but my father was working on cars before I was born, and has a Mazda certified plague hanging on his wall. His only point is any carb tuned correctly would work on this motor. The only differences is opinion, and price tag.
I've discussed this extensively with my father, and he says your right and wrong. Their are small differences in piston and rotaries, but any motor is basically a big compressor. He's recommended running a Holley 500 CFM 2 barrel, but I can't find a 2 port intake. Of course I could make or find an adapter 2 to 4 plate. Or run a 450CFM 4 barrel but the only one I can find is non choke as well and is meant to run in a dual carb situation and cannot be used as a singular carb.
I know the stock Nikki runs 313 CFM, but I've been reading about people putting all the way up to a Holley 650cfm. The only compromise I can find is a 570CFM 4 barrel for around $350. Which is a hell of a lot better than the $550 racing beat wants for their 465CFM carb. It sounds to me like their "modification" is a simple jetting, nothing worth an extra $200.
And of course any site that wants you to buy anything they have, they'll talk it up. Read racing beats page, every carb/intake setup they offer is "the best for rotories" They are lookin for a buck and can't even decide which is the best.
I know what your saying, and I appreciate your opinion, but my father seems to think you just didn't tune your Holley correctly. Of course you can disagree, but my father was working on cars before I was born, and has a Mazda certified plague hanging on his wall. His only point is any carb tuned correctly would work on this motor. The only differences is opinion, and price tag.
12-23-07, 08:27 PM
#38
Smoke moar
kk
When you turn the key, it should go about half way or so, its telling you the charge of the battery.
When you turn it over does it try to start at all or not?
get her running first, then play.....
When you turn the key, it should go about half way or so, its telling you the charge of the battery.
When you turn it over does it try to start at all or not?
get her running first, then play.....
12-23-07, 09:12 PM
#39
The aftermarket carbs, Webers, Mikuni, Dellortos, OERs, Solexs, etc., generally don't have chokes, they have starter circuits instead. Both the Mikuni I had on the widebody and the dual DCDs that are on there now have starter circuits that are operated by the stock choke **** and work in a similiar fashion as the stock choke works on a Nikki.
RX7Carl and Sterling, (pbandjracing.com), mod the Nikkis for more flow and performance. What's one of the mods they do, removing the choke components yet retaining the choke cable to raise the idle for cold starts. Don't be so quick to say no to carbs w/o a choke or any of the aftermarket 2 barrel carbs. They have a long and successful history with rotarys, much more so than the Holleys or any of the other American 'big iron' 4 barrel carb.
If you're dead set on trying a Holley, keep in mind that no one has figured out all of the mods that RB perfoms on thier carbs. Those seemingly minor changes that they make do make a difference in overall performance, driveability and fuel mileage. They've been at this for years. If you and your Dad think you can beat them at thier own game, by all means go ahead and give it a go.
RX7Carl and Sterling, (pbandjracing.com), mod the Nikkis for more flow and performance. What's one of the mods they do, removing the choke components yet retaining the choke cable to raise the idle for cold starts. Don't be so quick to say no to carbs w/o a choke or any of the aftermarket 2 barrel carbs. They have a long and successful history with rotarys, much more so than the Holleys or any of the other American 'big iron' 4 barrel carb.
If you're dead set on trying a Holley, keep in mind that no one has figured out all of the mods that RB perfoms on thier carbs. Those seemingly minor changes that they make do make a difference in overall performance, driveability and fuel mileage. They've been at this for years. If you and your Dad think you can beat them at thier own game, by all means go ahead and give it a go.
12-25-07, 04:25 PM
#40
Burning Oil-Grinding 3rd
When testing the compression we pulled the bottom radiator side plug, we heard 3 PSHHH sounds and when my brother placed his thumb over the hole, he said he could feel suction between his thumb and the plug hole. We did not test the rear because in the thread I read it said to only check L1.
The car is an automatic. This can be found in my original post. And in another when I stated I hate automatic transmissions and wanted a 5speed which is why
Check the Rear, The rear is 90% more offten the one with no Compression.
Auto: Had one, car run great if you ever got it started and run it every few days if not you were in for a two day fight to get it started, Denso Plugs were the only thing that really helped.
The return line for the fuel has a one way valve in it. check to make sure it is turned the right way.
12-26-07, 02:48 PM
#41
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Well, when I turn the screwdriver, all the guages work, all the dummy lights come on and such. And when cranking it over it seemed to try an start but can't.
Upon tearing apart the carb, we found the floats stuck closed, not open. Which seemed to confuse my younger brother and I. My father explained why it would flood with the floats stuck closed, something about fuel pump pressure and causing the gas to rush into the vents, flooding it, and also spray out of the top as I mentioned before. Every jet was clogged, every inlet was stuck, we got the carb working as it should now. We removed all the extra BS thats not needed, AC idle compensator and other **** I don't need.
My older brother and I bolted it back up and he started looking around and saying half the **** bolted to the motor we didnt even need. There was 2 solenoids, which can be found on the "removing the rats nest on a 12A" that were in question. Before we even decided to remove it all, my brother noticed that every hose plugged into and coming out of the soleniods (that plug into the intake) were all bad. They were hard as a rock and not suctioning at all, so considering these all needed replaced (like 20 tiny hoses) we ripped them all out. Removed the bracket and solenoids from the top of the engine, and are in the process of running the inline PCV valve and the T.
I'm going to buy some new hoses for this, and for the entire heating/cooling system before we try to get it running. We wanted to give it a try but before we could finish our adventure it started snowing pretty hardcore, so we layed some stuff over the exposed carb and placed the hood back on. And if those hoses were bad, you can pretty much bet they all are.
Also, my brother noticed the huge pump hooked up, running off of the belts near the fan and alternator. I asked, "what the hell is that?" He replied, "junk"
He explained its a smog pump, and perhaps my car was made in California, cuz others we've seen didn't have this pump. He then further explained that while it did run off all pulleys, so did the alternator, and by eliminating this huge monstrosity, I'd only need 1 belt to run (AC pump already removed) and by running less things on the belt, I would retain some HP. He said the more **** you run on the front of the motor, the more HP you can lose. Not to mention the weight difference in the front of the car when you remove 30lbs worth of pollution garbage. There aren't any emissions laws in this county/state, so I don't need any of this crap.
As for carbs, my brother said the same thing to me yesterday while we were doing all of this. He made the comment, "I'd just slap a holley on this bitch and eliminate all the extra bullshit"
I did some looking around, and discussing with my brother and father. Since the original carb is 313CFM, my best bet would be to run the holley 390cfm 4 barrel with the electric choke. Alittle more performance, alot less headache.
We will get it running on its original carb before I start slappin on extras but I feel confident that we will have it running in the next day or 2. After seeing the inside of that carb, and understanding what was happening, I now understand why the carb was flooding at a ridiculous rate and it was impossible for the car to start.
A word about exhaust: I checked out RacingBeat.com and its just my opinion, and I know they've tested everything and supposedly it's tweaked to perfection but, I just feel its way over priced. So I went searching other places and came up with some potentially good stuff for 12A's at a cheaper price tag.
at innerauto.com you can buy headers and exhaust for our 1st gens. Made by Pacesetter which is owned and ran by Hedman, a very respectable company. They sell an Armor Ceramic Coated racing header for our cars for $225, backed by a 3 year warranty and a muffler that looks indentical to the RB Power Pulse, is guaranteed to fit, and comes with some cool lookin dual angle cut chrome tips for $154. And they both come with ALL necessary hardware and gaskets. RB's don't. Run some straight pipe to connect it all and you have a performance exhaust system cheaper than what I've seen elsewhere. Keep in mind I'm not trying to build a drag machine, but a nice street car.
Also they sell a really nice REMAN OEM replacement distributor with upgrades for better performance for $104, and a nice alternator with upgraded performance for $27 (core charges apply)
Also, bear in my mind that DLDFIS will get you an easier start, and better burn, but won't increase performance thats noticeable. But if thats what you wanna run (which I am) modacar.com has some nice MSD Blaster 2 coils for only $46, and the MSD 6A(L) control unit with the added adjustable rev limiter for only abit over $200 for anyone wanting to run full electronic.
Between both sites, you can find some really nice and applicable performance gear thats cheaper than other sites I've come across. Just some extra info for anyone lookin to increase performance without breakin your bank account.
Upon tearing apart the carb, we found the floats stuck closed, not open. Which seemed to confuse my younger brother and I. My father explained why it would flood with the floats stuck closed, something about fuel pump pressure and causing the gas to rush into the vents, flooding it, and also spray out of the top as I mentioned before. Every jet was clogged, every inlet was stuck, we got the carb working as it should now. We removed all the extra BS thats not needed, AC idle compensator and other **** I don't need.
My older brother and I bolted it back up and he started looking around and saying half the **** bolted to the motor we didnt even need. There was 2 solenoids, which can be found on the "removing the rats nest on a 12A" that were in question. Before we even decided to remove it all, my brother noticed that every hose plugged into and coming out of the soleniods (that plug into the intake) were all bad. They were hard as a rock and not suctioning at all, so considering these all needed replaced (like 20 tiny hoses) we ripped them all out. Removed the bracket and solenoids from the top of the engine, and are in the process of running the inline PCV valve and the T.
I'm going to buy some new hoses for this, and for the entire heating/cooling system before we try to get it running. We wanted to give it a try but before we could finish our adventure it started snowing pretty hardcore, so we layed some stuff over the exposed carb and placed the hood back on. And if those hoses were bad, you can pretty much bet they all are.
Also, my brother noticed the huge pump hooked up, running off of the belts near the fan and alternator. I asked, "what the hell is that?" He replied, "junk"
He explained its a smog pump, and perhaps my car was made in California, cuz others we've seen didn't have this pump. He then further explained that while it did run off all pulleys, so did the alternator, and by eliminating this huge monstrosity, I'd only need 1 belt to run (AC pump already removed) and by running less things on the belt, I would retain some HP. He said the more **** you run on the front of the motor, the more HP you can lose. Not to mention the weight difference in the front of the car when you remove 30lbs worth of pollution garbage. There aren't any emissions laws in this county/state, so I don't need any of this crap.
As for carbs, my brother said the same thing to me yesterday while we were doing all of this. He made the comment, "I'd just slap a holley on this bitch and eliminate all the extra bullshit"
I did some looking around, and discussing with my brother and father. Since the original carb is 313CFM, my best bet would be to run the holley 390cfm 4 barrel with the electric choke. Alittle more performance, alot less headache.
We will get it running on its original carb before I start slappin on extras but I feel confident that we will have it running in the next day or 2. After seeing the inside of that carb, and understanding what was happening, I now understand why the carb was flooding at a ridiculous rate and it was impossible for the car to start.
A word about exhaust: I checked out RacingBeat.com and its just my opinion, and I know they've tested everything and supposedly it's tweaked to perfection but, I just feel its way over priced. So I went searching other places and came up with some potentially good stuff for 12A's at a cheaper price tag.
at innerauto.com you can buy headers and exhaust for our 1st gens. Made by Pacesetter which is owned and ran by Hedman, a very respectable company. They sell an Armor Ceramic Coated racing header for our cars for $225, backed by a 3 year warranty and a muffler that looks indentical to the RB Power Pulse, is guaranteed to fit, and comes with some cool lookin dual angle cut chrome tips for $154. And they both come with ALL necessary hardware and gaskets. RB's don't. Run some straight pipe to connect it all and you have a performance exhaust system cheaper than what I've seen elsewhere. Keep in mind I'm not trying to build a drag machine, but a nice street car.
Also they sell a really nice REMAN OEM replacement distributor with upgrades for better performance for $104, and a nice alternator with upgraded performance for $27 (core charges apply)
Also, bear in my mind that DLDFIS will get you an easier start, and better burn, but won't increase performance thats noticeable. But if thats what you wanna run (which I am) modacar.com has some nice MSD Blaster 2 coils for only $46, and the MSD 6A(L) control unit with the added adjustable rev limiter for only abit over $200 for anyone wanting to run full electronic.
Between both sites, you can find some really nice and applicable performance gear thats cheaper than other sites I've come across. Just some extra info for anyone lookin to increase performance without breakin your bank account.
12-26-07, 03:10 PM
#42
MagickNinja
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The aftermarket carbs, Webers, Mikuni, Dellortos, OERs, Solexs, etc., generally don't have chokes, they have starter circuits instead. Both the Mikuni I had on the widebody and the dual DCDs that are on there now have starter circuits that are operated by the stock choke **** and work in a similiar fashion as the stock choke works on a Nikki.
RX7Carl and Sterling, (pbandjracing.com), mod the Nikkis for more flow and performance. What's one of the mods they do, removing the choke components yet retaining the choke cable to raise the idle for cold starts. Don't be so quick to say no to carbs w/o a choke or any of the aftermarket 2 barrel carbs. They have a long and successful history with rotarys, much more so than the Holleys or any of the other American 'big iron' 4 barrel carb.
If you're dead set on trying a Holley, keep in mind that no one has figured out all of the mods that RB perfoms on thier carbs. Those seemingly minor changes that they make do make a difference in overall performance, driveability and fuel mileage. They've been at this for years. If you and your Dad think you can beat them at thier own game, by all means go ahead and give it a go.
RX7Carl and Sterling, (pbandjracing.com), mod the Nikkis for more flow and performance. What's one of the mods they do, removing the choke components yet retaining the choke cable to raise the idle for cold starts. Don't be so quick to say no to carbs w/o a choke or any of the aftermarket 2 barrel carbs. They have a long and successful history with rotarys, much more so than the Holleys or any of the other American 'big iron' 4 barrel carb.
If you're dead set on trying a Holley, keep in mind that no one has figured out all of the mods that RB perfoms on thier carbs. Those seemingly minor changes that they make do make a difference in overall performance, driveability and fuel mileage. They've been at this for years. If you and your Dad think you can beat them at thier own game, by all means go ahead and give it a go.
Please don't misunderstand, I hear what your saying. And I'm not doubting your knowledge in this area. But as I said I'm not trying to build an unbeatable street car, but more a regular car, with a more simple setup, and the extra performance to out run other street cars.
I'm sure your car, or someone elses rx 7 could eat mine alive, but I'm also not dumping thousands into my motor. If anything this motor will be my testing stage.
I've bought another 12A, sittin in my shed. I'm going to go through it in its entirety. Eventually I'll get it ported and polished and all that good ****, and a couple years down the road, I'll slap it into my chassis and use what I've learned on the first 12A for max performance.
My only prob with Weber is most people are reporting no better performance than a modified nikki. I'll get my car running as it sits, I'll probably mod the nikki for the secondaries to open at the same time. Once its running smooth I'll start with the exhaust system as you advised. Once thats complete, I'll dig deep and find out whats the best as far as price, tuneability, and performance between the many carb companies.
In the mean time, I have piles of Holleys laying around at my disposal, and will do some experimenting with my brother. In the end, perhaps you'll be right and I'll go with weber or del. But, maybe between my internet digging, my fathers extensive racing and performance experience from street to drag, and my older brothers rigging, experimenting, and overall mechanic experience will help us find a very simple, direct approach to making these little rotories scream with the help of some of that american "big iron" as you say hehe. Or we'll waste alot of time and money.
Either way, I do much appreciate your opinions, advice and help. Hopefully I'll be writing a new thread soon entitled "Holley, Making a Comeback" or one that reads "Holley...Should've listened to Trochoid" LOL
12-26-07, 05:30 PM
#43
djessence
With your saying you removed all the hoses and are gonna replace em and whatnot, and are taking the air pump out (which all rx7's came with) and throwing 1 belt on there and doing all these other things, why not just download the rats nest removal and follow that. They have some tricks and knowledge that is very handy rather than just removing "junk" in any old way. or at least read through it and see what they have done
Just a thought.
Just a thought.
12-26-07, 05:33 PM
#44
djessence
Unless you are running an e-fan im pretty sure you will still need 2 belts, A long one for the alternator/ and one for the water pump/fan... But i suppose i could be wrong about that but that is my current set up with my ac and air pump removed
12-29-07, 07:10 PM
#45
Burning Oil-Grinding 3rd
A word about exhaust: I checked out RacingBeat.com and its just my opinion, and I know they've tested everything and supposedly it's tweaked to perfection but, I just feel its way over priced. So I went searching other places and came up with some potentially good stuff for 12A's at a cheaper price tag.
at innerauto.com you can buy headers and exhaust for our 1st gens. Made by Pacesetter which is owned and ran by Hedman, a very respectable company. They sell an Armor Ceramic Coated racing header for our cars for $225, backed by a 3 year warranty and a muffler that looks indentical to the RB Power Pulse, is guaranteed to fit, and comes with some cool lookin dual angle cut chrome tips for $154. And they both come with ALL necessary hardware and gaskets. RB's don't. Run some straight pipe to connect it all and you have a performance exhaust system cheaper than what I've seen elsewhere. Keep in mind I'm not trying to build a drag machine, but a nice street car.
RB is about the best stuff you will find. you can try other stuff and then end up at RB like some people do or just start with the best. Buy their Header and Muffler and fab the inbetween.
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