Barwick

I don't know if you've heard about phenolic spacers, basically it's a plastic gasket that insulates the engine heat from the intake manifold.

It's not some ricer crap, it's dyno proven, and they've already been developed for many makes/models so far, and are in development for Miatas right now. Outlaw Engineering (the makers of these gaskets) wants to know if there's interest in these gaskets.

I think there is, especially for SCCA IT racers who can't port-match their intake manifold to their engine (they allow it on piston engines, but not on rotaries for obvious reasons). However, we CAN use any gasket we choose (I've asked an SCCA tech guy, believe me, I wouldn't be going through this if I hadn't).

Here's info on the gaskets themself:

http://www.outlawengineering.com/techframe.html

Here's a link to the peition I've created, please sign if you're an FB owner and are interested, or would like to see this developed. If you want, you can note that you would buy one. The price should be under $100 for a whole complete kit (with studs, gaskets, etc).

http://www.petitiononline.com/phenolic/petition.html

Wankelguy

I might add that in addition to insulating the carb from heat, multiple spacers are often used to lengthen the runners, which has the effect of moving the torque peak lower in the powerband.
Just my 2 cents.

FB II

so far 4 signatures total. that's pretty bleek. hahaha (did i spell that right? )

MosesX605

I'm not doubting the effectiveness of the product, but don't we already have a plastic heat shield/spacer on our Nikki carb equipped 12A's?

Wankelguy

Sure do, but those tend to break pretty easily, because they get hardened and brittle from the heat.

Rx7carl

He's talking between the manny and the engine. I'm not signing it. Heres why.



Way ahead of you junior. When its tested and developed, they will be availible for sale.

Barwick

Thanks for not helping

If you can make these as good as they can (insulating and heat/oil/gas/everything resistant as well as good sealing) then I'll buy it from you. Oh and it has to be able to be port matched from the intake to the engine as well without porting either the intake OR the engine.

But in the meantime, sign the petition and get these guys making them.

inittab

Hmmmm..... shouldn't you develop it first then test it? Oh..... and Carl.... I'd recommend milling out all the port holes too. Geesh... no wonder it's take'n so long.

What kind of gains to you think we can expect from this thing?

Mazda designed it so coolant flows through the manifold. Will this spacer be designed to still let the coolant flow?

Barwick

I imagine both of them would, but I don't see why blocking it of would cause a legality problem with SCCA, and I can't imagine it'd cause horrible problems with the engine either, but I'd have to investigate that.

Rx7carl

Hey, I'm helping me!

This is the problem. The manifold can be precut, but every engine is a little different. Especially if theyve been resurfaced. So hand fitting by the end user will be required. If you get them to make it, more power to you, I wish you luck. Its really not high on my list for development as the gains are pretty small. I cut that one in the pic 4 years ago.

Rx7carl

No Bob, it wont allow coolant to flow. You will HAVE to block it at the engine. Barwick, it is IT legal, as heating the manifold is considered emissions crap. It doesnt hurt the engine in the least either. Both my streetcar and racecar have blocked rotor housings.

Wankelguy

Sorry, thought you were talking about the carb/manifold spacer.

STUPID! STUPID! STUPID!

[/banging head]

alien_rx7

Actually I think phenolic gaskets were used on the Camel racing cars too if I recall my rotary history correctly. I will have to find my book and look it up.

Barwick

hey spread the word, we need to get plenty of signatures and they'll probably make it.

MosesX605

Ditto.

leif

why would you wnat to block off the coolant flow to the intake manifold? that dosent make sence to me!

Rx7carl

Hmmm, after jogging my crappy memory, I remember why I dropped this. The SCCA as far as I know will view this a a spacer, not a gasket, and disallow its use. Just like the carb to manny "gasket" (which is what Mazda calls it) cant be messed with cause the SCCA says its a spacer, not a gasket, no matter what Mazda says. Guys at last years ARRC champinoship race at RA got DSQ'd for this. Beware.

Rx7carl

Cause the coolant heats the manny, and the incoming air/fuel charge.

Barwick

I'll quote my conversation with an SCCA tech guy (at SCCA headquarters):


Matt,
My interpretation of unrestricted gaskets would not require a one-piece
gasket.

-xxxxxx



-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxxxx
Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2003 8:33 AM
To: xxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: gaskets in IT


One last question: What if there were to be the main insulating gasket,
and then on both sides of that gasket, a regular gasket for even better
sealing? Would that still be legal or does it require a one-piece
gasket?
Matt

> Matt,
> The ITCS allows for the cylinder head gasket replacement provided the
> replacement has the same compressed thickness. Other engine gaskets
> are unrestricted.
>
> This would allow for gaskets, other than the head gasket, to be
> replaced with anything.
>
> I love your quote, by the way.
>
> -xxxx
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xxxxxxx
> Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 10:02 AM
> To: xxxxxx
> Subject: gaskets in IT
>
>
> Sorry to bother you, but I was curious if the rules have been changed
> recently, or if I'm mis-reading the rules. If I read the rules
> correctly, gaskets and gasket material are basically open in ITA, as
> long as it is a one-piece gasket, is that correct?
>
> Now my question to you is this: There is a new insulating gasket
> material on the market that is thicker than a normal gasket, but

> insulates heat transfer between the block and the intake manifold. I
> believe these actually seal better than stock-type paper gaskets.
>
> I've seen this used on street cars without problem, and does most of
> its insulating when off-throttle (obviously because not as much air is

> moving through the manifold).
>
> Could you please explain to me if this is a gray area, or how the
> rules apply to this situation, either for or against my
> interpretation? Thank you.
> Matt
>

Barwick

btw need a test car, please help:

https://www.rx7club.com//showthread....hreadid=243154

alien_rx7

It isn't exactly new. It's been around for quite some time.

Rx7carl

Sounds promising Matt. Keep us informed. Did you post this over on IT.com?

Barwick

no, but we still need someone to go and offer a vehicle so they can develop and test fit it.

Rx7carl

I suggest you let the nerds over there ponder the legality of this before you get your hopes up too high.

Barwick

I'm gonna stick with my conversation with the head tech at SCCA.