Need help w/ First Gen.
10-15-06, 06:19 PM
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Need help w/ First Gen.
Hey, I'm new here, obviously. I drive a twin turbo 350Z, so I'm not well versed in the Mazda world, but my dad had a first gen when he was a kid. He sometimes says he wishes he still had it, so I am on a mission to get him a first gen back. The reason I am here is to try to get help finding one, and some advise. There are a couple of requirements though....
He got it the second year they were available, does that mean it's a 1980?
Must be black---It will get a new paint job anyways I'm sure, but I'd like everyhitng to match up.
I'd kind of like to do a motor swap. I don't know much about the rotary engines, although, come to think of it, I have a really good friend who does. But, from what I have heard, those first gen motors may not be the ultimate most stellar? I was thinking as far as the rotaries go, maybe a 3rd gen swap?...do the bell housings on the trani match up or would I need a new trani as well? Any motor swap or non-motor swap suggestions?
How much should I be lookinig to pay for a car like this? It can be far from show room condition, lol, like I said, I'm going to be doing a lot of work to it...but I'd like the body to be in pretty good shape, to try and keep it a basic re-paint...
I'd like it to run, but since I might be swapping, it doesn't have to run like a champ.
I'll be doing all the work myself.
Thanks for the time guys!
-William-
He got it the second year they were available, does that mean it's a 1980?
Must be black---It will get a new paint job anyways I'm sure, but I'd like everyhitng to match up.
I'd kind of like to do a motor swap. I don't know much about the rotary engines, although, come to think of it, I have a really good friend who does. But, from what I have heard, those first gen motors may not be the ultimate most stellar? I was thinking as far as the rotaries go, maybe a 3rd gen swap?...do the bell housings on the trani match up or would I need a new trani as well? Any motor swap or non-motor swap suggestions?
How much should I be lookinig to pay for a car like this? It can be far from show room condition, lol, like I said, I'm going to be doing a lot of work to it...but I'd like the body to be in pretty good shape, to try and keep it a basic re-paint...
I'd like it to run, but since I might be swapping, it doesn't have to run like a champ.
I'll be doing all the work myself.
Thanks for the time guys!
-William-
10-15-06, 06:28 PM
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Watch ebay for a '79-'80, check www.craigslist.com, or cruise the alleys around your town. If you get lucky you can find them for $100 in need of some attention. Or you can pay as much as $2500+ for a decent one. If you wanna dew a new motor, I think the stock 12a from a first gen is gonna offer the most reliability, and has plenty of power to scoot the little car down the road. So many people are doing engine swaps and a ton of mods, all in search of big hp numbers. That's all good, but we're starting to get to the point where a nice, un-mollested, original condition rx-7 is pretty desirable.
It shouldn't be too hard to find one. Just do us all a favor, and treat it good when you get it.
Brian
It shouldn't be too hard to find one. Just do us all a favor, and treat it good when you get it.
Brian
10-15-06, 06:29 PM
#3
Finding a good condition, with or without good paint, 1980 Rx-7 should be fairly easy, maybe a few months at most to find one.
But finding one that doesn't have the stock 12A motor will be more difficult, the most common swap is the single turbo 13B out of the 1986-1991 FC Rx-7, and even one of those for sale will be hard. Once people do this swap they typically hold on to their Rx.
In my opinion your best option would be to get the car you want, take time to update all maintnance (change all fluids, spark plugs, take care of any interior/exterior work it needs), and then buy some go fast parts for the 12A. Check racingbeat or mazdatix for good parts, it all depends on what quality car you buy and what quality you want it to be in when you give it to him. The stock 12A feels good and quick in a 2,400 lb car.
But finding one that doesn't have the stock 12A motor will be more difficult, the most common swap is the single turbo 13B out of the 1986-1991 FC Rx-7, and even one of those for sale will be hard. Once people do this swap they typically hold on to their Rx.
In my opinion your best option would be to get the car you want, take time to update all maintnance (change all fluids, spark plugs, take care of any interior/exterior work it needs), and then buy some go fast parts for the 12A. Check racingbeat or mazdatix for good parts, it all depends on what quality car you buy and what quality you want it to be in when you give it to him. The stock 12A feels good and quick in a 2,400 lb car.
10-15-06, 06:58 PM
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Well, I want the car to be fast, but pretty numbers don't make a difference. It's about fun for me. I mean my car puts a little better than 400 to the wheels, but that is plenty for me to have a fricken blast with on the road and track. Plus, the car is for my dad...he is not gonna thrash it.
Is the 12a turbo charged?...forgive my ignorance and lack of hw... What kind of power is it capable of?
I think my buddy has a built 13b I might could get off him...but is it a straight forward swap?...or do the transmissions need to be swapped to? Welding, cutting, new motor mounts?
Thanks for all the help!
Is the 12a turbo charged?...forgive my ignorance and lack of hw... What kind of power is it capable of?
I think my buddy has a built 13b I might could get off him...but is it a straight forward swap?...or do the transmissions need to be swapped to? Welding, cutting, new motor mounts?
Thanks for all the help!
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10-15-06, 07:24 PM
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The 12A engines found in the '79 through '85 RX7s were normally aspirated and put out 101 bhp. That doesn't sound like much, but keep in mind that:
a) this was in a 2400 to 2550-lb car, depending on option level,
b) the near-peak hp in a rotary is available over a wider rpm band than in a typical piston engine,
c) in the early 1980's all of this translated into a zero-to-sixty time of around 9 seconds--- about the same as that of a Datsun 280ZX or Lotus Esprit of the same vintage. The Porsche 924 and the '82 Pontiac Trans Am were slugs by comparison (11.5 and 11.6 seconds respectively), and the '82 Corvette was only one second quicker than the 7.
The good news is that the 12A, with a Racing Beat exhaust system and ported secondary intake ports can make an impressive difference in acceleration. And if you do the engine work yourself it doesn't have to cost an arm and a leg. These engines are not that difficult to rebuild, but you'll want to consult with some of the gurus on here or better yet, in your own area before attempting this. The general rule of rotary engine rebuilding is this:
The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price.
Don't compromise by re-using components that should be scrapped. Simple as that.
a) this was in a 2400 to 2550-lb car, depending on option level,
b) the near-peak hp in a rotary is available over a wider rpm band than in a typical piston engine,
c) in the early 1980's all of this translated into a zero-to-sixty time of around 9 seconds--- about the same as that of a Datsun 280ZX or Lotus Esprit of the same vintage. The Porsche 924 and the '82 Pontiac Trans Am were slugs by comparison (11.5 and 11.6 seconds respectively), and the '82 Corvette was only one second quicker than the 7.
The good news is that the 12A, with a Racing Beat exhaust system and ported secondary intake ports can make an impressive difference in acceleration. And if you do the engine work yourself it doesn't have to cost an arm and a leg. These engines are not that difficult to rebuild, but you'll want to consult with some of the gurus on here or better yet, in your own area before attempting this. The general rule of rotary engine rebuilding is this:
The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price.
Don't compromise by re-using components that should be scrapped. Simple as that.
10-15-06, 08:30 PM
#11
The S4, 87-88, TII swap is the simplest of the 3 different turbo engines from the later RX7s. With a fuel pump upgrade, ported wategate, FCD and 3" exhaust, it will put out 230-240 hp, up from a base of 180. If that's not enough, then you're looking at a turbo, injector, ecu and fmic upgrade.
For TII turbo upgrades, spend some time in the 2nd gen section.
For TII turbo upgrades, spend some time in the 2nd gen section.
10-15-06, 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Aviator 902S
The general rule of rotary engine rebuilding is this:
The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price.
The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price.
10-15-06, 10:49 PM
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Or, as Gucci said,
"Quality is long remembered after price is forgotten"
I know, it has to be done right! Like I said, I'm just finishing up phase 1 on my Z, it's been a year and a half in the making. Short cuts aren't my thing really...
"Quality is long remembered after price is forgotten"
I know, it has to be done right! Like I said, I'm just finishing up phase 1 on my Z, it's been a year and a half in the making. Short cuts aren't my thing really...
10-16-06, 07:39 AM
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Lol, sorry about my comment, my last boss used to say it all the time...
My car is being tuned in Virginia, I'm flying back to pick it up in 11 days. I have picks of the motor is you would like though...
My car is being tuned in Virginia, I'm flying back to pick it up in 11 days. I have picks of the motor is you would like though...
. A 350Z TT is impressive. Got any exterior styling? show a pic when you get it back.
10-16-06, 04:25 PM
#17
Terrified.
The 12a has a ton of potential. Like Robert's 12a making over 700 horsepower now (of course that is through more mods you'll ever want to do to it). It doesn't take anything in the world to get these cars to move pretty quick. You take a stock 12a, upgrade the carb, upgrade the exhaust, and upgrade the ignition and you're looking at a 50 horsepower gain (or close to).
If you seriously want to do a swap you can do whatever you want with it. 13bt's out of second gens are relatively easy. S5's being harder than S4's. Third gen engines are notoriously hard to swap, and generally you can make just as much power with less effort by doing a second gen TII engine swap.
And go read the FAQ's at the top of the first gen section page. Answers a lot of questions in more specific means.
If you seriously want to do a swap you can do whatever you want with it. 13bt's out of second gens are relatively easy. S5's being harder than S4's. Third gen engines are notoriously hard to swap, and generally you can make just as much power with less effort by doing a second gen TII engine swap.
And go read the FAQ's at the top of the first gen section page. Answers a lot of questions in more specific means.
10-16-06, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by bstrange99
HOLY SMOKES! That's gotta be the deepest, truest, and most profound statement I've ever read. If they ever rewrite the bible, I'm submitting that for entry. Don't worry, I'll have them post a credit to you.
10-17-06, 01:39 PM
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This is my TT motor...On the VQ with this APS kit, there is not much to see...it's very sleeper-ish. The turbos are located under the engine, so unless you know exactly where to look you're not even able to see them. The only thing that really gives it away is the intercooler and big silver charge pipe there. But, I'm rolling with the sleeper theme on this car...I am keepping a grill on so the intercooler is difficult to see, and keeping "stock exhaust"...only, I have added electric exhaust dumps to the down pipes, so at the flick of a switch I can poor the exahust straight out the bottom...can't get more efficient and quick spooling than that! This APS kit uses Garret ball bearing, water cooled turbos, so they spool very quickly... I can't wait to get my car back, and I'll post pics of the finished product when I get it back! : )
About the rx-7....Maybe I'll just keep the origonal engine if I can find one in good shape...my dad might appreciate that more...
OO, also very important, I'm not well versed on 80s style, but I saw a picture of the wheels my dad had. They were like completely mesh, looked like a bunch of little triangles, if I recall, and they were gold....anyone understand what I'm trying to desribe? ...any idea who might still sell something like that?....I think ebay is gonna be my best friend...
About the rx-7....Maybe I'll just keep the origonal engine if I can find one in good shape...my dad might appreciate that more...
OO, also very important, I'm not well versed on 80s style, but I saw a picture of the wheels my dad had. They were like completely mesh, looked like a bunch of little triangles, if I recall, and they were gold....anyone understand what I'm trying to desribe? ...any idea who might still sell something like that?....I think ebay is gonna be my best friend...
10-17-06, 01:56 PM
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OO thanks!...I'll definately check the wheels in the wheel section... I know they're not Enkies, because I remember when I got my Volks, I was looking at some Enkies, and my dad said he almost got Enkies back in the day, but they were too expensive...lol
10-17-06, 08:32 PM
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Sweet, good call. It looks like I can pick up a decent car for pretty cheap...maybe I can get one and have it ready by christmas... And I'll throw my Z seats in it so I have an excuse to get some Momos : )
