txhellion

Hey guys.

I Really hope ya'll can help me with this.

Here it goes.......................

The car is a 1980 RX-7 with an Atkins Rotary rebuilt engine with less than 25000 miles on it. It is a beautiful car in very good shape. I moved about a year ago and it set up for awhile. At first it wasn't getting enough fuel so I changed the fuel pump, filter and cleaned the carb and installed a carb kit. Viola! Getting fuel.
But now it will not fire on the trailing plugs.
I replaced the coil, wires, plugs, distributor cap and rotor. Still nothing.
I don't really have any "extra" money to put into this car so I have been replacing the cheapest parts I can first. The distributor is 270 dollars.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Here are some pics of the car: http://s441.photobucket.com/albums/q...xhellion/RX-7/


~Jason~

Also, it is important for you to know that I am nowhere close to being a mechanic.
So please put it into terms I can understand

Thanks!

workinprogress80

you probably need a new igniter, it is a J105. its located on the driver's side fender bolted onto the back of a little gold box about the size of a deck of cards. there will be two of them. switch them and see if the trailing works and the leading doesnt.

gsl-se addict

iTrader: (3)

Don't worry about trailing.

1. If something is wrong with it (most likely trailing ignitor), trailing is not needed for the car to start, run well, etc. Mainly just for emissions.

2. On the '79 and '80 models, trailing is only fired part-time anyway. This is to keep the exhaust mixture rich enough to keep the thermal reactor (exhaust manifold) lit. The later cars use a catalytic converter instead and so they keep trialing working at all times.

So, lack of trailing spark is not the problem. I assume that you have good spark on leading. How is the gas? Is it old? Is the starter spinning the engine over quickly? Battery fully charged? Have you tried jumping the battery (if the battery is a bit weak)?

Are the plugs wet from fuel? It might also be flooded.

txhellion

Well I know the trailing plugs aren't firing because they are wet when I pull them out.

The car will start and run if I push the gas down but it runs like S-H-I-T. Like its missing. It even smokes a bit.

I'm pulling my hair out guys.

As far as fuel goes..... I replaced the fuel pump and filter and had the carb cleand and had a kit put on it. It gets fuel fine.

Thanks,
~Jason~

gsl-se addict

iTrader: (3)

Yes..but what I am asking is if the fuel is old. You said that you moved it a year ago and you never mentioned about draining the tank and adding fresh fuel. The old gas is what crapped up your carb (causing it to need the rebuild). Old gas doesn't burn well andwill quickly gum up your newly rebuilt carb. If the gas is a year old, then get it out of there.

The older RX-7s, like yours, do not have a drain plug on the gas tank. The easiest way to get it out is to remove the fuel feed hose from the carb and put it into a large bucket. Turn the key to 'ON' (not to 'START') and let the fuel pump pump out the old gas. Another option is to siphon the gas out. Once the old gas is out, refill with fresh gas.

If it still runs poorly after replacing the gas, it is possible that you have a stuck apex seal or side seal. Sometimes they stick due to carbon buildup and from sitting. Search on here for the 'Seafoam treatment.' Basicaly you let Seafoam sit in the engine for a couple days to loosen everything up. Once you start it, it will smoke badly, but that is normal. Once the Seafoam burns off, hopefully you will have a better running car.

Anyway..one thing at a time. Let us know about the gas (if it is old or not) and we will go from there.

txhellion

The gas was replaced when I had the carb done. About two months ago.
But this problem was happening the day I put the new fuel in it.

It will not idle. I can start it up and keep it running if I'm on the pedal but it runs horribly. I am new to rotary so I really don't know anything. The only way I can describe it is that it sounds like its "missing". And it puts off smoke as a result of this.

I really appreciate all the help guys. I can't really afford to have a mechanic make a house call right now. Besides, none of them around here seem to know much about these cars.

It is a beautiful car in really good condition. It's down right depressing watching it waste away in my back yard.

I will be checking thos ignitors when I get home if I have enough daylight.
But your saying it doesn't matter if thos are firing or not, right?

~Jason~

gsl-se addict

iTrader: (3)

Right..only leading needs to be firing. Do you know how to check for spark? A timing light works well if you have one. I usually just pull one of the plugs (or use a spare) and attch to the sparkplug wire, lay the plug on the strut tower, and crank the car and look for spark. You have to be careful as fuel can mist from the sparkplug hole. Spark + fuel vapor is not a good combo.

Couple options:

1. read up on 'ghetto compression test'. This is a simple way to check compression. This could tell you if a seal is broken or is sticking. Since the problem happened with the car just sitting, it would be more likely for the seal to stick than be broken.

2. are you sure the carb was correctly rebuilt?

3. Check out the 'South' regional forum on here. You might be able to find someone local to you that would be willing to give you a hand with it.

We'll get it figured out. There is a lot of experienced people on here and they are very willing to share their knowledge. Good luck.

Kent

txhellion

Heres some pics of under the hood.
I don't see the ignitors on the fender wall.
You can see that a lot of stuff has been removed.
The last pic is what it looked like just before it got parked.
Its kind of dirty under the hood, leaves and such. But it has been sitting awhile.
It has a canopy over it and the hood is shut most of the time

Thanks again guys. This is the best info I have gotten in a long time.

KansasCityREPU

iTrader: (9)

When this engine was replaced, someone replaced it with a 1983-1985 model with the newer distributor (electronic vs points) and the beehive oil cooler vs the one under the radiator. The ignitors on this engine are attached to the distributor. They are the small blocks attached to the distributor.

txhellion

Wow, Well that sure changes things.
Thanks Kansas.

Parts must be the same for this one as they are for the 80 because all the parts I have ordered for it have been identical. i.e: distributor cap, rotor, carb kit, coil, etc....

txhellion

Can I test them the same way..... By switching them?

Does that mean that the trailing plugs SHOULD be firing the whole time?

txhellion

Distributor

Kentetsu

What kind of fuel pump did you install?

Make sure that the plug wires are going to the right plugs. L is on the bottom of the motor, T goes to the top. Everything should be labeled on the cap and on the motor.

txhellion

I cant remember exactly what pump it is. But I do know it was exact like the one I replaced. and yeah, all the plugs are all in the right places. If you look at the under hood pics you'll see clear tape on the wires, labeled, so I could easily put them back in the right place


Thanks.

kevxr2002

iTrader: (1)

where you at in texas man? I'm not a mechanic but two heads is better than one sometimes.


edit: looks like your missing a belt on the front there. cant tell for sure picture is not at the best angle.

KansasCityREPU

iTrader: (9)

Yes. They can be tested by switching them. I'm not sure about the trailing plug.

Kentetsu

If you look at the sight windows on the front/back of the carb, what level is the fuel at? If the fuel pump you installed was not the correct pump, it might be providing too much pressure and overpowering the carb. Fuel level in the float bowls will give a better idea if this is happening...

txhellion

I'm in Baytown

gsl-se addict

iTrader: (3)

1. Yes. Since it is a newer engine, trailing should be working all of the time.
2. Yes, the coils, distributor cap, etc. are the same for '80-'85. Some things are a bit different for the '79 since they were points based.

Now, there are a few things that I see that maybe you can check for me.

1. trailing coil is usually closer to the front of the car. It looks like from the coil wires, your leading is closer to the front. Could be crossed wires or it might be okay.

2. I see that 1 of the wires to your leading ignitor (on box on the distributor facing the radiator) is a blue wire. Normally, the RX-7s have a black wire (with either a yellow or white stripe) and a yellow wire (with either a green or blue stripe). Might be just something that someone rigged up.

3. Distributor is fully advanced (bolt is all the way over in the slot). This means that timing may not have been set right or that the distributor was put in with 1 tooth off.

We need to first make sure that everything is wired up correctly so that we know trailing and leading aren't crossed or anything. Maybe you can list the following info:

- wire colors at each coil (+ and - terminals) and whether leading or trailing (where the coil wire plugs into the distributor cap).
- wire colors at leading ignitor (box facing the radiator)
- wire colors at trailing ignitor (box facing alternator)

This may not be the problem, but we can make sure that all of this is okay so that you won't have problems setting timing and such once it does get running.

DivinDriver

iTrader: (15)

I don't see anything in here as yet that says timing has been checked/verified... could be the whole problem right there.

capitalcrew

Random question.. if on a 79 the leading igniter is bad and the trailing is good it won't start right? Since you guys said it only runs on the trailing one sometimes. Well, are the igniters the same? Could I just switch the wires over to see if that is the problem? Sorry for another threadjack but it seems relevant enough.. lol. Thanks

DivinDriver

iTrader: (15)

The two igniters are identical, but yoyu'll wantto physically swap their positions - - there's a socket underneath the ignitor that it plugs into, which is half the connections.

I don't think you'd get a satisfactory start off just the trailing; if it did start, it would run poorly (way off timing). If I recall correctly, the time I had my leading ignitor fail, the car would not start.

7aull

iTrader: (2)

Assuming your 79 is stock, there are NO igniters in the ignition - no electronic ignition on the 79 RX7

Stu Aull
80GS
Alaska

capitalcrew

My bad. I'm a huge n00b when it comes to anything not fuel injected, and with a coil pack. I was confused.

DivinDriver

iTrader: (15)

Gaugh... I missed that.