Bigmotoxer

I tried finding the best forum for this, so if "Another Forum" will be better then feel free to move it.
Here's the deal...What should I use? I want to build a fast 13b(non-turbo) using the BEST COMBINATION of parts, by parts I mean= Irons, rotors, housings, ect. for my 85'. What I mean is do I drop in a 13b SE, F.I...or 13b housings/rotors w/12a irons(4-port), or RX-4 13b, cosmo, combination of all of the above, please read on(I'll show you what I have access to)and find it in your hearts to help me find best combo because I'm all searched out.

I have access to 13b 6-port F.I. from GSL-SE(complete engine)but was thinking of staying carbureted.
I have access to a 74-75 RX-4 13b (but it says "automobiles" and "3b" on it so assuming it has the small intake ports? but thought of using 12a irons w/it? dunno).
I have access to many 12a's...thought of building 13b 4-port (13b housings/rotors/shaft w/12a irons).
I have RB headers for 12a and RE headers for 13b.
I have access to aftermarket intake(forget the brand) w/Mikuni carb on a 12a.
I have a nikki that I'm gonna get Carl to build up one day soon(whether I use it on this engine or not).
Would there be a preference in 13b housings? Like would later housings be better than early housings or vice/versa or would it matter?
I'm willing to get porting and/or buy any particular intake, carb or exhaust if needed to compliment the best, fastest but reliable combo that you can help me come up with.
I only have time & money for one engine and I want it to be the bomb...I don't want to build it then install it just to have someone say "you know if you would've used the cosmo 13b irons blah, blah you would have a little more hp" OR say "what you should've done was blah, blah" you know?
Jeff? Trochoid? Wacky? Doc? Calling all/any that may know their crap, combos and hp #'s. I need to get my list together(been trying for 3 weeks, just been laying low and reading), aquire everthing needed and have it built by Dec.
Seriously help a bro out here. I've already PM'ed a couple peeps on this w/no response.
Thanks for any/all info.

Jeezus

iTrader: (4)

13b 4 port FTW
RE 13b Header
You want 13b housings from 85 and before, 86+ had different coolant passages iirc
Porting, you would want large street, so you can still drive it but not as annoying as a bridge.
Port out the exhaust also. Why allow more air in but the "same" amount out?

84stock

iTrader: (5)

I would go 1/2 bridge 4 port, rb intake with an edelbrock 650 thunder series carb, GSL SE internals and flywheel (some will say go new, s5 etc, but I am looking at what you have, the heavier rotors and flywhell will definitely help with the lowend torque loss from the bridgeport). I would run pre-mix and ditch the omp. Last of all add a 50 shot of nitrous and you'll end up with about 200rwhp on the bottle and a big smile on your face. I wnet streetport becasue of the daily driver idea, then i heard a bridgeport. Now, my motor is coming out and a bridgeport is getting built. If you're gonna spend money on an intake, get a hold of Codeblue first and see if the camden is still for sale.. Here's what a 1/2 bridge sounds like http://media.putfile.com/bridged-rotary-54 and here is what my streetport with a camden sounds like http://media.putfile.com/compilation2-57

Bigmotoxer

That is what I've come up w/in the past few months too, thinking a 13b 4-port.
1.) So the 13b housings and rotors are the same from the 70's through 85' ? no certain year is better as far as performance/reliability, I though I heard that some years weren't quite as well forged/built, maybe I was dreaming?
2.) Does anyone have any opinions on the best performance intake?(I notice you have a side-draft) I mean should I port the old school intake off of 74 RX-4? or buy RB? or? I'm up for spending some $, not trying to build getto.
3.) Does anyone think RB headers or any other headers and exhaust system may have an advantage over the RE header?(I personally think it would be so close as to not matter really). Because I'm up for buying whatever I don't have to make this a envious set-up.
4.) So yes I figured on porting and although I want fast I don't want to loose all bottom-end, so large street port is also what I've been thinking, thanks. Porting the exhaust(the exhaust ports)is something I haven't figured on but I'm feelin' ya.

C'mon anymore feedback from another rotard out there, Jeffy are you out there?

Bigmotoxer

1.) So you're saying us SE shaft, rotors, and housing, and 12a irons?
2.) So a 1/2 bridge is a step above the large street port, I've seen the pics in my re-search but please correct me if I'm wrong.
3.) So the Codeblue or the Camden(or are they 2 of the same?)are/is better than the RB IYHO? What is the $ difference?
4.) What is the s5 ect out of? The rotors and flywheels are lighter? yes that would rob a little bottom.
As far as the nitrous...um, well, I dunno...it will only be a weekend warrior (but a nice reliable one)and definately don't want to sling anything apart,lol. Do you have Nitrous on yours?

Bigmotoxer

oh I see Camden sold by Codeblue, that thing looks sweet. i would love to know what this thing would do over an RB or ported intake.

Bigmotoxer

uh would Codeblue be the infamous CB racing?

trochoid

iTrader: (6)

12A irons, ported, pre-86 housings, S5 rotating assembly with hardened stationary gears, 3 window bearings, all of the high rpm oil mods, done.

Want to learn more about engine building, NoPistons.com is the best place.

Bigmotoxer

There you are you old fart.
What intake and size carb would you recommend for that? Recommend porting exhaust on that?
Yeah I've been to Nopistons.com(that's how I found this place
I don't think it's engine building in general that has me inquiring, I think it's all the reading on here and finding SO many combinations that it would take me years to trail-and-error all this stuff, $$$. So that's why I asked you good people for the ultimate rotary parts to aquire, yes the people who have already spent the years and trail-n-errors, like you.
Thanks I'll go back to Nopistons.com, haven't been there in a while actually, I mostly just read there, but here you get the pleasure of me asking questions

84stock

iTrader: (5)

The Camden will provide lots more torque than na and be good for a daily driver. Topend, about 25% more hp over stock. I wouldn't recommend buying new due to price and budget.

Bigmotoxer

I don't have s5 rotating assembly but I've been dreaming about this engine long enough that it is actually turning into a dream engine. Like I said, I'll spend some money, not trying to build ghetto. And yes the Camden looks frightening, in a good way. How many peeps are running it? First I've heard of it.
Anyway, I gotta do some searching on s5, camden, and all the high rpm mods. Thanks for now guys, I will be back

Bigmotoxer

No man, not until someone has a fool-proof set-up that works flawlessly, that is why I'm inquiring looking for tried and tested and proven methods here...going w/the Camden after reading this will put me in guinea pig arena, a place I don't like to be -------> https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...arger+codeblue

Still searching, thanks guys, be back.

Blake

There are many ways to skin a cat. Right now I am building a streetported 4-port 12A-based 13B with S5 internals for my Mazdasport project car. It's a fun combo, IMHO. However, I don't think it's as remarkable as some would have you believe. You would be amazed with the performance of a properly built S4 or S5 6-port NA. We have a dyno sheet of a streetported S5 NA we built that put 190hp at the wheels, using our 6-port inserts, a full exhaust and S-AFC. I won't say that is "typical" but the potential is there. The idea of the 4-port being the "ultimate" setup is really an old bit of conventional wisdom from when the 6-port engines were new and people didn't have the experience to get the most out of them. Like many things, the idea stuck in people's minds beyond it's useful life. Chalk it up with "synthetic oil doesn't burn" and "peripheral ports are unstreetable". At least that's how I look at it. So, why am I building the 4-port 13B NA for myself? Just for fun and as something a bit different for me, since I have done so many 6-port 13Bs in the past. I think both are valid platforms; I just don't attach a golden halo to the traditional 4-port. Six of one, half dozen of another.

Here is my 4-port, which I recently assembled:

Bigmotoxer

That my friend is a very nice/simple looking build i like it, and I am taking all advice from any/everyone into consideration...I've not direguarded anything up to this point except the Camden(no offense 84 stock) , taking notes, checking it twice...and I really apprecite your response I only had to read it once, in other words a very understandable response thanks.
BTW, what intake and fuel delivery are you planning on using on this 4-port build?
And on the s5 6-port what is S-AFC ?(I've seen this but still can't find the abbreviation deciphered).

estrada42

Super-Air Fuel Computer

Lets you adjust fuel injectors to flow more or less fuel on fuel injected cars.

brandon davis

iTrader: (3)

How bout just buy a rebuilt s5 ported motor, through a 48 ida w/ RB LIM and FP reg. full streetport RB exhaust, Good clutch P/P. Call it a day. can be done for about 3k and you could have about 200 at the crank

trochoid

iTrader: (6)

Blake has a good point on the 6-port engines. In stock form with a full exhaust upgrade, they make a very good DD with loads of lowend torque and a smooth powerband. It's that reason I've left my S4 stock, with the exhaust upgrade, and modded the 1st gen instead.

Rx-7Doctor

iTrader: (13)

I'd go for the 6 port engine also using the appropriate Fuel injection system for whether you go with the S4 or the S5 set up.
Blake knows what he is talking about with the potential of the 6 port engines.

84stock

iTrader: (5)

I have tried 4 different pulleys, have 4 different carbs, tried different air cleaners and added water/methanol to get mine dialed in nice. I was happy with mine as a daily driver.

Bigmotoxer

thanks guys, I'll get back to you doc ,Troc, 84... gotta check something today.

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

Hey I just saw this thread. Everyone covered everything very, wery nicely. The only thing I can recommend to you at this point is to upgrade the ignition. Wait until after the engine is built, in the car, running, tuned for the most part etc. Then when you know it's running ok, upgrade the ignition. Don't attempt it without a basic understanding of how the stock system work, so if you screw somethng up, going back to stock isn't a mystery.

As for my opinion on engines, I love the 13B 4 port. The cool nitrided R5 13Bs from Japan are probably my favorite. They were nitrided for better wear resistance and longer oil seal life, high volume oil pump (like US spec '83-'85 12As) and the oil pans are the same capacity as Cosmos, RX-4s and REPUs.

Good luck finding one of those these days. It's better to build one with GSL-SE rotor housings and 12A (Y casting) side plates like others have mentioned. Racing Beat and Camden manifolds are available for these engines.

84stock

iTrader: (5)

Damn, I knew I forgot something. Jeff could give good advic on the ignition. I use MSD, but some will guide you through dilifidis and a second gen coil upgrade each of which can be done very reasonably. Ignition upgrades don't give more power in themselves, they do however make things run smoother and compliment the other upgrades to their full potential.

Blake

I haven't yet quite decided what exact combo I will run. I have IDA and IDF throttle body setups in my collection, so probably one of those. The IDF setup is really nice but it was intended for a turbo and has a nice cast aluminum hat and 4-additional injector bungs...almost a waste to run it on an NA car. For fuel, I have an older MoTeC system, but it doesn't do spark (at least not rotary spark), so I may step up to an Electromotive TECIII or maybe just settle for a Haltech or Microtech. Or, perhaps say 'screw it' and run an IDA carb. Lots of options. Here is a pic of the IDF on the engine, without the hat:


S-AFC = Apex'i Super-Air Fuel Computer, for fine-tuning the A/F mixture. For an NA, that usually means leaning it out for best power.

Siraniko

iTrader: (13)

Nice!!!! I noticed that you're not into polishing parts.

estrada42

Damn.

Everytime Blake posts, I get slightly turned on.