rmayton

ok now someone with a lot of patients please tell me..

i want to build a very strong 12a
i want to make about 200-210 at the rear wheels

ill be building a motor and then swapping it in for the stocker, i have to drive it 5 days a week

dont think i can afford a turbo!!!!

im asking if i do all the work myself?

what can i do to reach my goal, and how much should each "step" cost?

inittab

I'm no expert but I do know that a 12a that makes 200-210 at the rear wheels without a turbo would be VERY hard to build.

enigma32

Any doctors around? Maybe there's one that has a lot of patients......

hehe, sorry.. =P


Interesting project. If you figure it out I may consider doing the same

82transam

iTrader: (18)

200+ at the wheels is possible, but would render it useless as a daily driver. Really the only was to make it streetable with that much power is forced induction, but as you've stated thats out of the question. 150hp at the wheels and streetable might even be pushing it. Time to think about a 13b swap.

EScalade

My 13B J-port with IDA makes 200-210 at the wheels so you can kiss that goodbye.

The cheapest option for 200rwhp would be a blow thru setup using a 12A turbo plenum and a nikki 4 barrel carb. Boost to 8psi max... hardly anymore expensive than a n/a 12A. They go well hard too.
Pity is the plenum hats are rare and you have to drill a hole in the top - thus wrecking them.
I have 3 of them but im in NZ.

bliffle

Could you explain this a little more, as it sounds like a decent way to improve HP without an engine rebuild. And why does drillling the hole wreck them if that's what's needed?

B

wwilliam54

swap a s5 T2 angine and tranny in,
tune

EScalade

The intake plenum is the orange bit (not the fan)... it will fit perfectly over a standard Mazda 4 barrel carb all you have to do is drill a hole thru the top to bolt it down.
Then rejet the carb to suit. Its as easy as that. plumb it up to the turbo/intercooling piping and your away.
Ive driven/had rides in a few of these cars... some decompressed, some not... and all go VERY hard considering...lifespan can be determined by intercooling/fuel delivery/quality of rebuild and leaving the boost on 8psi. We call em "***** Turbo's" down here as they are ghetto as.

Good luck and enjoy.

fatboy7

Like has been said, 200 rwhp is tought to get without forced induction. Talk to robert at rotaryshack.com, he's the guru when it comes to blow-through turbo 12A's. You'll have to talk with some of the more expirenced along this route, but the cost of turbocharging shouldn't be much more that it would to rebuild, raceport, and recarb.

fatboy7

If it were easy and cheap don't you think there would be more of these running around. I'm nearly 8k into mine, and when I'm "finished" I'll have major traction/suspension issues, because I've blown my wad on the swap - no money left for rims and tires.

In retrospect, I probably should have gone turbo 12A. Oh well, I'll get what I payed for...

MarkPerez

You can buy laughing gas, you know NOS ?? cheap ,
powerfull, will work with 12a,13b, any engine,,,right .?
just don't go nuts " on the bottle "
All 12a owners ( just about ) would like more power from there engines, it's not cheap to go fast .

rmayton

ok if i do a big bridgeport, exhaust, and carb what ill that get me?

how much is this flow through crap?

thanks for the help guys.

82transam

iTrader: (18)

If you want streetable a brideport isn't gonna be very fun to drive. What you want isnt gonna happen without a turbo, or a later model engine.

EScalade

Bullshit - all it takes is money. Ive seen stock engines on IDA throttle bodies and Haltech pull 180bhp.

The 12A blowthru route will cost as much as a N/A rebuild + an exhaust manifold and any random turbo!!
i.e. cheap!!

82transam

iTrader: (18)

ok think about what your saying, or maybe you should go re-read his first post. He doesn't have the money needed to build up a turbo engine, so he won't be able to spend a lot on carb setups either. Sure you can get that kind of power out of a 12a, I never said you couldn't, but if you on a budget and need to make it streetable then its not gonna happen. If you can tell me how to build the car and meet all those requirements, please enlighten us.

fatboy7

He also said 200-220 to the wheels.... thats around 240-260 at the flywheel. Street port probably isn't going to get you there. A bridge could, if you built and ported it to rev high enough. But it would be loud, high idle, and would go through gas like you won't believe.

Definately cheaper than a ported motor, IDA TB, and Haltech.

rmayton

ok so how much will it cost to get where i want to be?

ya'll say its not cheap somebody pls put this in american dolars so i can see the bottom line.

thankx

MarkPerez

The bottom line is ,,, what ?? you don't have money to dump into a car/engine, right ? just deal with it and accecpt the fact that you can't afford what you want.
Just like most of us here. My 12a is all stock with all the california smog crap even, it's 100 horse power with something like 170.000 k Miles on the OEM engine.
It's fast, for what it is,,,you know. and i go after supra's,
3rd gen rx7's, 5.0's whatever. and they don't want any
of me. they think i've got something going for me, for me to mess with them. then they flip when i pop the hood and nothing,, no turbo,supercharger, all engine !
So take what you've got and work it for every bit of performance it can produce as it is. IMO.

rmayton

if thats the case, im screwed. my 83 gsl wont harly keep up with a 6cyl mustang, im good in 1st, good in 2nd, but about 5,200 rpm in 3rd, it kinda craps out. just quits making power. if i shift into 4th everythings ok. and..... here receently ive been having this lil. power problem more and more often sometimes in 1st or 2nd.

enigma32

You did check the fuel filter right?
I still have power up to 6.5 or so krpm in 2nd and 3rd gear. (Havn't tried it in fourth yet, hehe)

MarkPerez

My 12a makes power in all gears, all the way and past
7000 rpm's . IMO 3rd gear pulls the longest and hardest.
4th gear, IMO is to wide from 3rd gear. and 5th is god-awefully tall. yeah, check fuel filter/fuel presure.i'm right at 2-3 lbs. fuel presure. no regulater.

unreality

I never realized how convenient it is to have the exhaust positioned like that in a turbo situation... i mean, damn, that's a pretty good setup with the plenum.

I wonder how much of a factor heat is. I mean, racing beat sells heat shields for their headers, and headers don't have little turbines spinning inside of them at extremely high rates.... but then, I don't know what the heat shield protects. The carburator? If you injected... you'd be in the clear...

Anyone know if heat's a problem with this motor?

82transam

iTrader: (18)

Ok, the FB in stock form is a slow *** car, but a 6cyl mustang? You should easily smoke that ******. If I were you I'd spend some serious time tuning what you have, its clearly not running right. Then start building this engine slowly, with exhaust and other bolt ons, you should be happy with the result. But if your looking for a fast straight line this is the wrong place for you.

racermike

Sounds like you have a real problem to fix, not redesign.

Several things could cause a lack of power, or for the power to drop off at xxx rpm. Lack of adequate fuel supply ie. weak pump or clogged filter,,, restricted intake air ie. very dirty filter or choke not fully opened,,,,,restricted exhaust ie. muffler or any of the cats...

Step 1 is to see if it is rpm related. What you see at 5,200 in 3rd may be present at 5,200 in 1st and second, you just don't stay there long enough for it to happen (you shift). Put car in 1st (and/or 2nd) gear and drive it to 6,000 rpm,,,,DO NOT SHIFT and hold it at that rpm for 20 seconds or so. Does the engine start missing and then fall off to the magic 5,199? If so then then the engine is running out of fuel supply or the exhaust is restricted and has built up pressure. Since it can take "time" for the condition to occur, you may be shifting before it happens in the lower gears, whereas in 3rd you stay there long enough for it to show up. Again, this is not mph vehicle speed related, but rpm engine speed related.

Wankelguy

My '80 won't beat a 5.0 Mustang, but my old RX4 did it pretty regularly. I have a friend with a GT3 RX3 that runs a bridgeported old-style (dual distributor, top-mount starter) 12A that makes about 280 hp with a 51 IDA Weber. The thing does 165 with a 4-speed. I may be trying to sell the car for him in the near future.