SEXY_REXY85

I recently bought an 85 RX7 GSL (which i so lovingly dubbed "REXY") and the car is in beautiful condition, no rust, body is perfect. It was from Cali and I live in Canada so when it cut out on me, i thought it would prolly be because it didn't have a block heater. I wen out and bought one and installed it myself after a full on battle trying to pull the rad hose off .

Ayways that didn't help and i think it might be a problem with compression cuz the sparks work and the car floods so fuel is getting to the engine. i'd hate to think it was the apex seals, and have already started looking for a new engine. Found a 13b for $850 canadian so i want to get it in there. Just wondering what the hell i need/need to know for this engine swap so i an start looking at prices. my engine knowledge, although advanced for most girls is prolly limited to most of you due to my lack of a *****, so please explain thouroughly i am willin to learn!

THNX!
ps sorry for the life story

notice how when your 7 doesn't work you feel a little sad leaving it at home, all alone. I've noticed these cars breed obsession...not that i'm overly obsessed...yet.

IanS

iTrader: (4)

You will be obsessed soon enough.

TracyRX7

It may not be compression, when a rotary floods it FLOODS. You can search the forums for "flooding" or "help flood", etc and find tons of ways people go about trying to unflood a rotary.

I would also search for "compression testing" and you can go pickup a standard compression tester (you don't need the really expensive Mazda Rotary one) to check if it is a seal or if it is just flooded.

Evil Aviator

Moving thread to the 1Gen forum where you will get better help with troubleshooting and details for a 13B swap...

Elysian

maybe a ignitor went out or something?

cpt_gloval

iTrader: (1)

i flooded my se and i wasn't able to get it started with the starter, so i had to push start it. try that, maybe?

rotor vs. piston

Suprised no one has asked her for her number yet. LOL

Also note worthy is that rx's become more difficult to start in colder places, but you say you got the block heater installed so..., One thing I had to do with my -SE and I believe you can do the same to the carbed engines as well is to pull the fuse for the fuel pump and crank her over for just a little and while cranking replace the fuse and that worked for me everytime.

vipernicus42

iTrader: (4)

Yeah, deflood it and try again. Doubtful it's the engine that just went "like that" unless you were neglecting your oil.

To deflood (basic general idea, search for specifics)

disconnect the fuel pump
remove spark plugs and try them
spin engine with no fuel supply until dry
replace plugs, re-connect fuel pump and try again

Jon

Snapshot

Just because you can't start your 7 doesn't mean you need a new engine. The stock engine is far more road warrior than a rebuild. Don’t **** w/ something good. Check all your electrical first & then check other support.

Tech_Greek

:o

Myc1972

Yeah,
The weather from Canada is lot's different from California. So that might have
something to do with it. So things might be ok.

Can you describe what happened in more detail when it stopped running?
These guys can help you out if you give them even more details. They know
their stuff.

Myc1972

Aviator 902S

Some questions about your attempts to start this car:

1. What is the current temperature where you are? These cars should start without a block heater down to as low as -15C, although at those temps it won't crank as fast and may take at least ten seconds of cranking for the engine to catch--- assuming you didn't flood it.

2. Does the car crank over quickly, or is it more sluggish than normal? Could be the cold, or you may have drained the battery after repeated attempts to start. Remove the battery and top up any cells that are low on water, then (with caps removed) place it on a charger in a well-ventilated area that's warm.

3. When you tried to start it up, did you pump the accelerator repeatedly? This would definitely flood the engine. Best procedure is to floor the accelerator once and hold it there (without pumping) until the engine catches.

4. How do your spark plugs look when you pull them out for inspection? As long as the business end of all four plugs are dry and either tan or dark grey your engine does not need a rebuild. Even if they are wet, as long as the wetness is fuel and as long as all four of them are wet your engine is ok. This wetness would indicate a flooded engine. But if the two plugs from one rotor housing are wet and oily while the two from the other are dry, you have engine problems, likely a thrown apex seal. This would require a rebuild.

If all of the plugs are wet, pull out the fuse for the electric fuel pump (located in the fuse box under the dash, just in front of the hood release lever). Now crank the engine over for several seconds to expel the fuel that has flooded the engine. Replace the fuse and try to start the car, holding the accelerator to the floor without pumping.

5. Are you getting ignition to the plugs? With the plugs still out, place each plug into it's respective plug wire and then lay the wires down on the fender with the business end of the plugs facing the drivers' seat. Now crank the engine over. You should see a blue spark jumping across the electrodes of each plug as you crank the engine. This confirms that you have fire and that the ignitors are good.

If no fire, pull the coil leads off the distributor cap and place one plug in each lead, then repeat the cranking test to see if you now have a spark. If you do, but you didn't have sparks when you had the plugs in their proper leads, you've narrowed the problem down to the distributor. This is where the ignitors are located. Disconnect the ignitor leads and inspect for corrosion. Often, simply cleaning these connections with sandpaper or a fingernail file (my wife hates it when I use her nail files for this, but that's another thread) will get them working again.

6. Are your plugs dry? This is normal and would indicate that the engine is not flooded. But what if the reason it's not starting is because you're not getting ANY fuel? To confirm your electric fuel pump is working, turn all accessories off and then turn the ignition key to the "on" position. (not the "start") position. You should hear the electric fuel pump running. It is located under the car on the drivers' side just forward of the fuel tank.

This will confirm the fuel pump works, but if the filter is clogged you still may not be getting fuel. If you look under the hood on the driver's side you will see two neoprene rubber hoses leading from the fire wall to the carb. One of these hoses is slightly larger in diameter than the other. This larger hose is the main fuel hose into the carb, while the smaller hose is the fuel return line.

Get a container to catch any fuel spray. Now disconnect the larger hose and place the end of it inside the container. Have an assistant place the ignition key in the "on" position. You should have fuel pumping into the container. If not, either the filter is completely clogged (I've never seen this happen--- clogged filters usually cause bogging down in traffic at speed long before completely clogging, and therefore get changed before fuel is completely blocked) or you're out of gas. Fuel filters are around $5 at Napa and easy to install. This filter is located under the car on the drivers' side, just aft of the fuel pump and ahead of the tank. It's a 5-minute job.

Hopefully one of the above is the solution. If you still can't start the car, and you've confirmed presence of both fuel and fire, you may well have a carburetor problem. Not likely though. Carb problems don't usually hit you with no advance symptoms. If your block heater is working (you installed it on the lower hose, right?), plug the car in for a few hours using a short chord (chords longer than about 50 feet have enough resistance to render your block heater useless) and then try again. Hope this helps.

SEXY_REXY85

Well initially the car was running like crap but that's cuz the oil was below "low" and black as shart. SO we changed the oil and it ran as smooth as ever. That lasted for like a week and one day i drove it to work and it was fine in the morning but when it was time to go home, i went out 20 min before to start it so it warmed up...i noticed that it was smoking like crazy, like i'd never seen. I got in my car, and naturally tested the choke to see if it was sucked in enough...so i pushed it in too much...BIG MISTAKE. So i later learned that if the car doesn't warm up before the choke goes in....you're fawked. I left my car because i flooded it trying to start it. I came back a couple of hours later and the car started after we pushed it out of the inclined parking spot. I figured it was ok cuz it had time to de-flood, i even drove it all night. The next day...nothing! The car turns over but it's not catching...at times it sounds like it's just about to and it just stops i have drained the battery twice since then, installed the block heater, changed the oil...again cuz all the gas ended up in the oil!

I'm also so skeptical about taking it to a local mechanic because most places i called seem kinda oblivious to the whole "rotary engine" thing, well they just don't seem sure about what they are saying..i said to one of them " i think it might be something wrong with compression" and this is at a japanese import garage and i clearly stated that it was a 85 MAZDA RX7... the guy says "ohh yes compression something wrong with the pistons huh?" i don't know whether i was shocked or offended . I said umm actually its a rotary engine and the guy hung up on me!!! There is a specialty RX7 shop but they want me to buy a rebuilt 12 a engine and thats their only solution to the problem..oh may i add that the 13b i might get isn't a rebuild, it's a used engine shipped from Japan (70,000K's)

So any suggestions?
*sniff *sniff

ANYWAYZ i'm lost! I dunno what to do!

Kentetsu

Follow Aviator 902S's instructions. That was an excellent post!

Deflooding a rotary engine is totally different that with pistons. It will not just get better if you let is sit for awhile. This is definitely the Achilles heel of the rotary engine, and as such you will find a wealth of information on the topic in this forum. You could try searching, but again, the post above says about all.

Some people have success by just dumping some Marvel Mystery Oil down the carb, charging the battery, and having the car pushed with another car until it starts.

Good luck. And by the way, what's you number?

SEXY_REXY85

thnx aviator....the info is great..here is what applies to me...
1.The temps during the week my car cut were at about -30C...so yeah block heater was needed. ( i did install it into the lower rad hose...no worries!)

2. The car is actually cranking at normal rate, only slows down when the battery drains at which point i plug it in. The battery is brand new so do i need to top it up W/water

3.When i was in the work parking lot i was pumping but when i finally got it out I wasflooring it and have floored it everytime i've tried starting it

4.Now the spark plugs...they were all wet, and the business end is black..an ex mechanic told us that the sparks were ok this way...i had my doubts. Do you suggest going out and buying new plugs..if so which are the best i can buy cuz i'll go tommorow and get 'em. I'll evacuate the gas using your method tommorow

5. Now we tested one plug and figured that since all of them looked the same they would all work (this and the fact we were effin cold..its hard workin on cars in canadian winters..... plus the polar bears cought our scents and we had to get back in the igloos before sunset) TOTALLY KIDDING anyways will test the other three tommorow! that oughta tell us if it's a problem w/ the distributor

anyways i'll try the new plugs and try the connections.....i think that the fuel pump works because the car totally stinks of fuel everytime i try crankin' her over.... I may be wrong so i'll listen for the fuel pump.

Anyways i'll get back to ya i hope it works and you are awsome for the help!
THNX A MILL!

Aviator 902S

You're most welcome. Your engine is ok and your spark plugs are likely ok too. The reason they appear black is because a) they're soaked with fuel, and b) if you normally only drive the car to and from work for short hops in cold weather the engine doesn't get completely warm before being shut down. This means the choke is (necessarily) pulled most of the time, which causes the engine to run richer than normal. This leaves more burned fuel deposits (carbon) on the plugs.

These plugs are $40 or so for a set of four, so it's best to have them sand-blasted at a service garage and then reinstalled, as long as the center electrodes are still round when viewed from the end. If they are taking on a square appearance (caused by sparks jumping to the four side electrodes, eroding the center one) it's time to replace them.

If the battery is new the water levels are likely ok, but you may still need to re-charge. Best way is on a charger, but simply taking the car for a long (ie:at least an hour or so) drive in the daytime (so that you won't need the headlights on, which consume battery power) should restore the charge. In fact, use only those accessories that are necessary during this drive. The heater fan might be a must, but turn off the stereo.

Another thing I forgot to mention: Check the under side of your distributor cap. If the contacts are badly eroded you should replace the cap and also the center rotor under the cap. Cost is about $40 for both. This will give you a stronger spark, which can't hurt at all when you want your car to start easier. New spark plug wires are good to have as well, but a decent set of NGK wires are around $50. I'd wait until the cap and rotor have been replaced to see if that helps before forking over another $50 for wires.

BTW, it's normal for these cars to smoke when first starting. This smoke will be a whitish-grey in colour. The colder it is, the more smoke you get and the longer it takes to dissipate. But if it is still a huge cloud even after the car reachesoperating temps it's not normal.

Another thing you can do on those extremely cold days when the car takes forever to warm up and does not reach operating temps: go to Walmart or some place and pick up one of those "Crazy Carpets" that kids use to go snow sliding on. Trim it down to about 12" by 24" and then slide it just in front of the radiator so that it blocks no more than half of your radiator's width. This will reduce the cooling efficiency of your rad so that your engine reaches operating temps. Do this ONLY on cold days where the temps don't rise above -20C and watch your temp guage. If it reaches 1/2 way (ie: the needle is vertical), immediately remove the blocker. Overheating is very bad for these engines. Never let temps go beyong 1/2 the span of the guage.

My '85 GSL also came up from California, although it's not in quite as nice shape as you've described yours to be. Three Canadian winters tend to wreak havoc on the bodies. Mine is starting to get some surface rust. Minor, but not to be ignored.

Considering that you are experiencing -30 temps I'm guessing you are in either Manitoba or northern Ontario. I'm not sure where the rotary engine specialty shops are in your area, but there are some good ones in BC, Alberta and Southern Ontario at the very least. I'd steer clear of Canadian tire or any of the scary places that mention "rotary" and "pistons" in the same sentence.

SEXY_REXY85

Yeah actually i'm from calgary like you...um it was that cold snap of a week we had a little while ago... umm the spark plug wires are about the only things that are new in my car...they looked like they were just put in so i doubt i need to change those.

also my plugs are platinum plugs so is the shape different.

Now if there's errosion in the distributor cap do i just clean it with steel wool or what?

Aviator 902S

If you're in Calgary you have options for service. Several of us on the Canadian forum here in Calgary are in regular contact and if one of us can't help you with a problem another one can.

We are actually meeting tomorrow (Saturday, Feb 19th) at the Denny's on McKnight and Edmonton Trail in the Northeast at 2pm. (See the thread in the Canadian forum for details). Whether your car is running or not you're more than welcome to join us. (My wife will be there too so it's not like you'd be the only girl there )

It's normal for evidence of carbon and arcing inside your distributor cap. But if there's practically nothing left of the contacts it's time to replace the cap. Cleaning with steel wool probably couldn't hurt, but I've never bothered.

I've never used platinum plugs in any of my rotaries. The only ones we use are the NGK BR8EQ type with four side electrodes. If yours are the standard type with only one electrode I'd be concerned. Most of these parts are available from Adam at RX7 specialties here in Calgary for better prices than what you'll pay at Mazda dealerships.

SEXY_REXY85

Yeah that would be good, ill see if i can make it but i'll prolly be attackin the wankel tommorow! WIsh me luck..i will post with results, hopefully this works..and thanks sooooo much for all your insight.

Kentetsu

I'd say you guys should to just meet at her place!

numan2

OMFG if I wasn't married! a woman after my heart.

Aviator 902S

LOL... Too bad I'm happily married. The only way I'll ever end up at her place is to help with the car. Honest. Besides, my wife has changed her mind about the Miata--- She now wants a GSL-SE. ANNNDDD... she is completely supportive of my ambitions to build my own rotary-powered airplane (!)

Aviator 902S

Best of luck with that. And if you do get it running you know where and when to find us. On the other hand, if you find yourself in a bind you're not likely to find this many rotor heads this close to where you are at the same time. I'm sure there are a few of us who could stop by and assist. (although some of them are single so who can confirm their motives? )

SEXY_REXY85

hahah thanks for all of your help guys and i hope to meet you guys in Calgary! hahahah i know....i'm not your typical girl that's for sure, not saying that i'm butch or anything i just happen to love cars....specially my REXY! SO anyways anyone go to the World of wheels car show in calgary...3 RX's there..one of which i was totally dissapointed with.... seeing as they dropped some sort of corvette engine in it (it was an FC)....COME ON PEOPLE!!!!! ITS AN RX7 FOR GOD'S SAKE!!!! The rotary is what makes this car so unique, and or someone to go and ruin that...for shame!!!! I was so upset..my friends think i'm totally wierd now because i kinda caused a scene...so if anyone saw a spanish girl raging infront of that RX...yeah that was me...

Bob Holton

I own a 1974 Rotary wagon that came from Fairbanks , that little sucker has a battery heater, a radiator heater and a block heater and some sort of cold weather injection system. yes it is a 12A ,and it has about 15 feet of cord wrapped up on brackets on the grillle. gets lots of stupid questions here . The system was rated for -60F