rotaries_only

Aight. Goes like this see.

Stop at a stop light, engine suddenly begins to idle like hell, go to accelerate and i have little to know power, had to rev to 4K to get it to move and then it would bog down to like 2000 after letting out the clutch.

It seams that if i pull the plug wires off for the rear rotor it idles the same but if i pull them off the fron it dies.

did i blow the apex seals?

Roundabout

iTrader: (8)

Did you pull both plug wires off the rear rotor?

rotaries_only

yeah. and it doesn change the idle at all

Nicholas P.

iTrader: (1)

On a piston engine, if you pull out a plug wire, and it doesent bog down, then you put it back in and pull out the other and it dies, usally you have a dead piston.

which isss baaddd.

I dunno about the roatary, im just saying from my old expierence.

FirebirdSlayer666

iTrader: (3)

Either you blew apex seals or you're not getting any spark on the rear rotor

trochoid

iTrader: (6)

Switch your leading plug wires. If the problem moves to the front rotor, it's ignition, no change, do a compression test.

GavinJuice

well what engine do you have...carb/efi....and had you done anything previously to your car?

rotaries_only

84 12A Carb. emmissions removal (rats nest) new dizzy, rotor, plugs, coils r good. I dunno guys. im thinking a rebuild is in order. Fun but costly. ill see what goes down in the next few days.

rotaries_only

Update! OK heres the deal. It is idling on one plug and one plug alone. i beleive it is the leading on the #1 chamber. i swap Leading and trailing coils and the problem swaps as well. what do i need to replace?

coils? igniter?

i have new dizzy and rotor.

aussiesmg

iTrader: (1)

start with ignitors, test them, do plugs and wires because they probably need it anyway, check the chambers for oil when you change the plugs. Do a compression test also.

trochoid

iTrader: (6)

Either you have things crossed up, or you have more than one problem.

Go back to where you started and switch the L1-L2 plug wires on the dizzy. If the problem switches from front to rear, check the plug wire that goes to the misfiring rotor.

With the engine running, pull each plug wire off of the cap and check for spark. If you have only one wire sparking, you have at least one bad wire, maybe 3, and possibly a dead coil or igniter. If a coil or ignitor goes out, that side is dead, leading or trailing.

Also check that the cap and rotor are securely mounted in place. If the tin cover under the rotor is out of place, it can cause similiar problems.

Aviator 902S

So are you saying that only one plug is firing out of the four? If so, is this on the wire for the leading (ie: the lower-mounted) plug, or for the trailing (ie: lower-mounted plug? I'm assuming you're referring to the front rotor rather than the rear.

It appears that you have more than one problem, since both the rear rotor and one plug on the front rotor are not firing. Here's what I'd do:

1. First, remove all four spark plugs and inspect the business ends of them. Are they all dry and are the insulators near the center electrode a shade of tan or grey? If so, your apex seals are fine. If the plugs on the front housing are dry but rear ones are wet it could simply be that without any spark to those plugs they are wet because of the unburned fuel. Let's hope this is the reason, because the other reason would be a lost apex seal and the associated loss of compression on two of the three rotor faces in that chamber. Rebuild time.

2. Now put the correct leads back onto the plugs and then lay the plugs on the inner fender so that the business ends of the plugs face the drivers' seat. When you get in and crank the engine over you'll be able to see if the plugs are firing or not. You said that only one fired, and I'm assuming that it was one of the front plugs.

3. Next, swap the high-tension leads from the coils so that the leading is plugged into the trailing connection on the distributor cap and the trailing lead is plugged into the leading connection. Does the spark move to the other plug? If so, one of your coils (or a primary lead to it) is suspect. The leading coil is the one that's mounted closer to the windshield, and the trailing coil is the one that's closest to the front of the car. If the spark does not move from one plug to the other your coils are fine. At this point I'd suspect an ignitor.

4. First, some info: The ignitors are those two little black rectangular things screwed onto the outside front and Right-hand side of the dizzy just below the distributor cap. The leading ignitor is the one mounted onto the front of the dizzy and the trailing one is mounted on the side of the distributor that's closest to the alternator.

The trailing ignitor were to fail you'd notice that your tachometer no longer works (since it receives its signal from the trailing ignitor) but other than that the car would run fine albiet, while no longer able to pass the emissions test if it ever were able to do so. I say this because if you've been running the car without a functioning tach and then one of your leading plugs ( or it's high-tension lead) were fail the car would exhibit exactly the symptoms you've described.

The trailing ignition system fires 15 degrees after the leading one does. This means that a trailing ignitor failure won't make the engine run rough and stall out at rpms lower than say, 1500, but a leading ignitor failure most certainly would.

So... let's swap the ignitors. if this causes the other plug that wasn't previously firing to do so you have a bad ignitor. Judging by your symptoms I'd say it's your leading ignitor that is toast.

5. let's say you've swapped the ignitors so that the one that was the leading is now the trailing and vise-versa. But you still have no fire to the plugs of the rear rotor housing. I'd take one of the plugs from the front rotor housing that is known to fire and swap it into the leading (lower) rear spark plug hole and then install the suspect rear plug into the trailing (upper) front rotor. If the car now runs fine you've solved the problem. If not, try also swapping the high-tension leads from the leading and trailing rear plugs. Do this at both the spark plug ands and the distributor cap end of the same wires as well, otherwise the crossed wires will cause detonation problems from the plugs firing out of sequence.

This should solve the problem with your rear plugs. A bad coil would have effected one front plug as well as the one rear, so if both front plugs are now firing that rules out the possibility of a bad coil.

rotaries_only

to swap ignitor do i need to take them off the dizzy?

or can i just swap the plugs that connect to them?

Aviator 902S

I'm not sure the wiring harness to each ignitor will reach their respective ignitors if you reverse them but you could try. But in theory, if you do this the good ignitor should still send the signal but the timing will be off, ie: if the leading ignitor is bad, and you try to send it a signal from the trailing ignitor it it's normal location the timing will be 15 degrees retarded and the car will run like ****.

Having said that, you should be able to determine if an ignitor is good or not by swapping the leads and cranking the engine while watching the spark plug gaps for fire.

Swapping the ignitors is a 5-minute operation--- you'll need a stubby #1 phillips screwdriver (ie: the smaller one) to remove the two screws that hold each ignitor onto the distributor case. After removing the screws they simply pull straight out of their sockets.

However, to gain access to the trailing ignitor you'll need to loosen the alternator bracket and swing the alternator up and out of the way.

rotaries_only

ha! yeah the ignitor were bad. tossed 2 used ones on that i had layign around and started beatifully... then a very very bad sound came from the engine... a loud crack that a scrapping followed by metal bouncing around. I have got to have the worst luck ever

Any opinions on a cheap rebuild kit? Atikins rotary the best bet?

84stock

iTrader: (5)

You won't have any luck with a rebuild kit, too late for that given the noise. A cheap rebuild kit works great on a relatively healthy (running) engine. Sounds like you may need some big parts (housing, rotor??). Check the pics of my rotor and housing after mine popped. I was lucky by blown apex didn't affect either side housing. Find a reputable builder (like Adam at RX7Specialties here that did mine) and get them to rebuild it and at least streetport it (I'd do a half bridge myself) at the same time.

rotaries_only

Thx 84stock.
i have 3 or 4 12A's at my disposal so hopefully i can pull out a decent one and rebuild it. I can do porting myself I have 2000sq/ft shop at my disposal and its packed with ever tool you can dream of. I even found a rotary engine stand adapter in the back.

So ill see what it looks like once i get the engine out. any tips on getting at the tranny bolts?? Should i pull off the carb cause i think i might be able to get around it.

Aviator 902S

You shouldn't have to pull off the carb to access the bell housing (tranny) bolts. But if you're tearing the engine down anyway...

Meanwhile, if misery loves company your misery just became a little more bearable--- I went out to start my car this morning only to find that my engine too needs a teardown. The car started after twenty seconds of cranking and exhibited the dreaded Briggs&Stratton lawnmower engine sound and vibration level. And it wouldn't idle below 1500 rpm. And it backfired like a *****. And this time it wasn't an ignitor.

There was no warning whatsoever--- the car idled fine just before shut-down last night and there were no loud sounds consistent with an engine cratering.

But the signs of impending failure were there--- the last two oil changes showed dilution due to fuel getting into the oil via worn seals, the engine's power was noticeably lacking compared to my wife's GSL of the same year and indicated mileage of 163,000 miles (260,000 kilometers--- and I suspect my odometer has been spun back at one time or other by a previous owner) and for the last six months the car has required 5 to 10 seconds of cranking to start when cold, as opposed to one or two.

Still, the engine gave me my moneys' worth and lasted as long as it was supposed to. But I wish it had lasted just three months longer because by then I will have moved into our house and began stripping the whole car and engine down. It would have been nice to have done this before it threw an apex seal rather than after.

So now my wife gets to bring her (much nicer) RX7 out of storage, and I get to drive the winter beater Nissan...

rotaries_only

I feel for you Aviator... we should make this a race

first one to tear down and rebuild wins lol. I got a bit of a head start. I only have 2 tranny bolts and an engine mount before the engine is out. I like to take my sweet time though. I'll have it done in 2 weeks

Ill post pics in a new thread soon i think.

Aviator 902S

Looks like you win this one--- I won't be tearing mine down until we've moved this coming May. I can still drive the car so I'll drive it there when the time comes rather than tow it.

I also may stop off at a body repair guy's shop (who is recommended by another member) to see if that dent in my rear right quarter panel (from getting rear-ended in October, not noticing the damage and therefore not getting the other driver's info) can be pulled out for a decent price.

If so, I'll do a ground-up restoration using something other than a 12A. (A 20B comes to mind...). If not, Ill strip the car down and sell the shell to someone who wants it for racing purposes.