V8kilr

I'm finally going to put this one to bed.
I know the hot topic is Power Foam but when I went to my local murrays (my auto parts store that carries Amsoil products) they didnt have any.
So instead I picked up
1 bottle of ATF
1 bottle of MMO
1 bottle of Sea Foam

Here is the test, to see if any/all of the products combined will make any difference in compression to the test engine.
Test #2 test each of the three products on a seperate rotor surface to see if there is any difference after aproximatly 3 full days.

The rotor



The products



The test setup

side 1
drenched in MMO, rotor face had MMO applied 3 seperate times in a duration spanning 3 days



side 2
drenched in Sea Foam, rotor face had Sea Foam applied 3 seperate times in a duration spanning 3 days



side 3
drenched in ATF, rotor face had ATF applied 3 seperate times in a duration spanning 3 days

vipernicus42

iTrader: (4)

But "apply-and-let-cake-again" doesn't seem to show much.

Did any of the three loosen the carbon to allow it to be easily rubbed/brushed off? The pictures make it look like all three did absolutely nothing at all! but we know ATF and MMO do *something* since just spraying the stuff in can unsieze an engine and send not-so-clear, not-so-red liquid back out the spark plug holes...

What does it all mean?
Jon

V8kilr

Here are some after shots of the rotor on each of its sides.
I wiped the remaining product from each rotor to see if there actually was a difference in breaking up the carbon buildup.
The product was only applied to the inside of the rotor pocket.

MMO side




Sea Foam Side



ATF Side




Although in the pictures the MMO side may look the best, I believe the Sea Foam removed more carbon then the other products.
But MY money is somewhat more on MMO because its alot thicker and I believe it would do more good inside the engine.
AT this point I think the best combination would be to MMO your motor then use Sea foam after to help get in all the places that the MMO missed because it was a little too thick.


Next are the before and after compression test results.

Stay Tuned

V8kilr

Well if you would have waited a minute for my after shots and my previous post.......


jeez

mar3

iTrader: (8)

Isn't a little heat also beneficial to the process? Summarize your results and your conclusions...they kinda look all alike to me, but rebuilding an engine is the last thing I haven't done for an RX-7...

lol...you caught me out, too....

RotaryRyan

interesting

V8kilr

I did think about that as well.
I decided to break out the torch and put some heat on the each side of the rotor before and after I wiped each side off.
I dont really think it made any difference, I think the heat would maybe need to be more constant then the heat I was applying.

vipernicus42

iTrader: (4)

*looks at the post times*

Damn my quck typing fingers!

Good job V8kilr! Well at least we know these products actually do break up carbon!

One test I'd love to see is ATF, MMO and SeaFoam (powerfoam)'s effect on rubber... That would be the telling of which to use, since they all seem to kill the carbon pretty well

Jon

V8kilr

Hmmmmmmm.....

Guess I didnt think of that, and I'm all out.

Jeez and I thought I covered everything.

Well you guys excited too see the compression results?

I have them here waiting, but I'll post em maybe tommorrow, maybe day after

82streetracer

iTrader: (1)

sea foam is the ****,

Ive been telling you guys that for a while.

Suparslinc

Good idea, but I repeat Mar3 and what I've posted before on these topics. You are not going to see the true effect of these products on a rotor outside the engine. Without the compression and heat to churn the carbon out it's not going to do much at all.
I used sea foam on my first engine then blew it a week later. Maybe a coincidence, or maybe because I had it near redline for 30 minutes
If your just going to let it sit on an exposed rotor, I bet carb cleaner would do as good or better than all three of them.

Rotofire

true, but it still gives you an idea.

V8kilr

I am also conducting a test on the motor itself.
The test above was just to see which would loosen up the most carbon.
I did apply heat with a torch " not a little bottle torch either" and then I even wiped off the residue " something that doesnt happen inside of your engine.

The test above is just to see which is best, how effective they are inside the engine will be posted later.

RotaryRevn

Any bad effects from leaving marvel mystery oil sitting in an engine for the long term? I have a new motor that's been sitting in my garage for quite a while (about 4 yrs). When I bought it the engine place told me to shoot some marvel mystery oil in there every six months or so and hand turn it about half a dozen times to keep everything working smoothly so I did this. Just wondering if mmo can eat up anything when sitting in the engine for awhile?

vipernicus42

iTrader: (4)

MMO *should* be safe. If you had used ATF, you could kiss all your rubber seals goodbye the day you start it.

ATF makes rubber swell (aparently, I haven't seen it firsthand), and weakens it.. MMO should be safe.

Jon

RotaryRevn

thanks, never used atf, just mmo.

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

If your engine is old like mine and Long Duck's, MMO might make it smoke.

I'd never put ATF into any engine.

85rotarypower

Neither would I. There is something about the name A(utomatic)-T(ransmission)-F(luid) that makes me think about it. Mabey that stuff is supposed to only be use in an AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION.

fc323

Whatever happened here? I have a stuck apex seal and I'm deciding which chemical is better

DriveFast7

iTrader: (1)

In my experience Seafoam dissolves carbon better than ATF or MMO. It's more of a solvent, and does have a light oil in it (pale oil) to to lube and fight rust. They also make it in an aerosol form called Deep Creep which is sold in auto parts stores.

You could take the exhaust manifold off, then spray some Deep Creep in the exhaust ports, down the carb, and in the spark plug holes. Let sit then turn over by hand, and respray. With the exhaust ports available, stick your finger in there and push on each apex seal, it should be springy and push back.

Mineral Spirits also work incredibly well at dissolving carbon, if that apex seal is carbon stuck. If its mechanically stuck, thats a whole other rebuild... i mean problem.

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

i have never felt comfortable advising people to put ATF in a working engine, so i don't think you should use it. i would agree with Drivefast7 that you SHOULD use Seafoam. i have used both Seafoam and MMO although in my own experience, i haven't found an actual conclusion as to which is better. however, generally speaking, i do prefer using the Seafoam.

gerald m

ATf is meant to withstand extreme temps without break down so it doesn't burn worth crap and also creates much more ash than most any oil , don't know why people relate lots of smoke coming out the exhaust with doing something good . A big old glass of water injected into the engine will probably do more for carbon removal than any of the over the counter stuff . The steam created with water is a hell of a lot more aggressive than cool ignition burn , oil smoke .JMO

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

The ATF myth should just hurry up and die.

85TIIDEVIL

iTrader: (2)

Hmmmmmm.... I used ATF twice this past week. Once on a junk motor that has been sitting stuck to see if I could get it to turn.... And once on a 1/4" wratchet that went under salt water last year. Both freed up. The wratchet works smooth / fine again and the motor now turns. Go figure...?

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

i don't think anyone is saying it won't free carbon-stuck seals. the issue is the damage it might do to the rubber seals in an engine you plan to keep using. i use it on occasion with cleaning parts. as a matter of fact i soak some parts/seals in it, especially if there is any rust on them. (ever seen rust in a tranny?)