M.s.d.l.i.d.f.i.s.
11-08-04, 08:19 PM
#26
I've got the MSD direct fire running the leading coils from a 2nd gen on my GSL-SE. It's got the 10mm Magnacore plug wires. It works great. I did everything per Paul Yaw's instructions. The car sure "feels" more powerful. It is definitely smoother and the sound is more like a 2nd gen now. I highly recommend it.
11-08-04, 08:28 PM
#27
well I'm not using the second gen coil thats my thing I'm going to attempt an aftermarket coil. I hope the thing friggin works!! I have this feeling that the coil won't be upto my expectations. i don't know why I feel that way, just do... If and one else knows of any twin tower coils besides the fc stocker, the MSD shown, and the accel shown.
11-09-04, 04:00 AM
#28
and the sound is more like a 2nd gen now.
Incidentally, when the MSD was on my test vehicle, the exhaust pulses sounded shorter than I was used to hearing (the result of shorter duration sparks perhaps?). I also didn't like the compensation of the MSD's circuitry being different from the trailing J-109 ignitor. The LT split would vary with RPM; low RPM would be at the correct split while higher revs would be a few degrees off. I also didn't like the idea of spending so much money on something that basically could be duplicated for a fraction of the cost. I then discovered that the engine seemed to run better after pulling the MSD and installing DLIDFIS. The only way I'd ever use my MSD on another rotary is with a 2nd gen or similar (dual output/DIS) coil.
11-09-04, 03:05 PM
#29
Forunately for me, I just had the MSD 6A lying around and still had the ignition pieces from my parted out 2nd gen. It didn't cost me anything. I do have a couple of J-109's lying around too. I'm going to try the other way with them on my friend's 1st gen and then compare them. It's going to be a tough comparison though because his is a carb'd stock 6 port engine and I have a fuel injected streetport 6 port. We'll see.
11-10-04, 04:21 AM
#30
well i'm kinda pissed i ordered the coil and with shipping it cost me $48. today i got to my local schucks/checker/kargen and they have one there for 39.99 and I'm still waiting for the one i ordered I'mkinda pissed about that.. oh well lesson learned... Anyone know If i just buy the one at the schucks could i return the one from Summit and get my money back when it finally shows up?
11-10-04, 05:08 AM
#31
allright this also so i switch mu coils from running in a series to parallel like suggested in this thread. Holey ****. now shes running really lean nothing else was changed. I have an Air fuel ratio gague and thats freaking me out lean is bad... About a month ago i upped my chokes in the carb from 38's to 40's and the only difference was a few HP and it leaned out above 5k a lil more, but it still stayed stoik. now it runs lean all the timei turned up the idel jets alot to no avail, wtf??!?!!?!?! should i reset the timing?
11-10-04, 04:59 PM
#33
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that effect chaps my ***..
especially on my 13B.. healthy rotaries are typcially not cold blooded.. and at low engine temps, until the engine is around operating temperatures it hates it..
pops screeches (no ping, i have a knock box and 2 sensors).
I went from a #80 pilot jet to a 100 (largest is a 110) and it barely fixed the problem... until i switched away from the old coils to the FC leading coil... switched back to a 90 pilot jet and all is well below 3K.
especially on my 13B.. healthy rotaries are typcially not cold blooded.. and at low engine temps, until the engine is around operating temperatures it hates it..
pops screeches (no ping, i have a knock box and 2 sensors).
I went from a #80 pilot jet to a 100 (largest is a 110) and it barely fixed the problem... until i switched away from the old coils to the FC leading coil... switched back to a 90 pilot jet and all is well below 3K.
11-10-04, 05:23 PM
#35
damn just as I thoght then I'll need bigger jets. Wait if it burns all the fuel now, and i have to add more fuel to get its combustion to the fullest. Than more fuel more power? so is it safe to say this will gain power in the end? I think so. And since this is the only mod i've done since my last dyno I think I sholdthrow it back up there just to see if there is a true gain in HP.
11-10-04, 08:20 PM
#36
well its here now how do i hook it up. There are no positive or negitive markings on it. On the instrutions show it hooked up to a DIS-2 ignition. will it work with the 6a? Well it looks as if it doesn't matter which its hooked up to so I'm just gonna see....
11-10-04, 08:57 PM
#37
Hmm, does it have a built in ignitor? It looks to me like you should hook the MSD's black and orange wires to the two red ones in your diagram. The polarity doesn't appear to matter. Do you have a way to bench test it?
Try asking RX-Midget how he wired up his Accel DIS coil (which most likely has the exact same style of connector).
Try asking RX-Midget how he wired up his Accel DIS coil (which most likely has the exact same style of connector).
11-10-04, 09:20 PM
#38
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Originally Posted by Hyper4mance2k
damn just as I thoght then I'll need bigger jets. Wait if it burns all the fuel now, and i have to add more fuel to get its combustion to the fullest. Than more fuel more power? so is it safe to say this will gain power in the end? I think so. And since this is the only mod i've done since my last dyno I think I sholdthrow it back up there just to see if there is a true gain in HP.
first off, the problems got alot better after switching to the FC leading coil.
it also helped to goto a larger pilot (Idle) jet. I am using a Mikuni 44phh A Hitachi or two would be cool too). on a rotary you should have a proportionatly pilot jet than your main jets.
for example. if you read a jetting chart for a piston engine application and try to translate that to a rotary engine.... the pilot jets will be way larger than the piston equivilent.
For some crazy reason I have not been able to find proper jetting reccomendation for my engine application with the Mikuni. So i looked at jetting reccomendations for similar flow rates in piston engines with the mikuni and (attempted) to translate that to the 13B.
Damn what an off-topic side-trip.
BTW, I'll finally take some pics of how i mounted my coils tomorrow.
Moving forward. Jacobs Electronics used to make an ignition system just for the rotary.
The Jacobs Rotary pro pak i think it was called!?!
Has anyone ever used this? I would like to get ahold of one of the old-school versions.
I will continue to experiment to get a good rev-limiter.. I do alot of autoX/track events and this is something that would be useful.
Concerning having just the leading coils effected by a rev-limiter... ala MSD 6AL.
who cares if the trailing plugs continue to fire at higher RPM? it is essentially like having really really retarded timing...
which is a good thing at higher rpm, it will help clear the chambers of any air-fuel mixture. so you don't come back into the power band with more popping and noise and flames..
(in this case it can be a bad thing)... from the unburnt gas.
even in a turbo application the really retarded timing of leaving just the trailing plugs firing when the rev-limiter is activated would be alright, maybe instead of fuel cut, Mazda should have given us boost cut or rev-limit action based on overboost and revs.
what do you guys think?
11-10-04, 09:37 PM
#39
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Originally Posted by waapst
For some crazy reason I have not been able to find proper jetting reccomendation for my engine application with the Mikuni. So i looked at jetting reccomendations for similar flow rates in piston engines with the mikuni and (attempted) to translate that to the 13B.
Originally Posted by waapst
Moving forward. Jacobs Electronics used to make an ignition system just for the rotary.
The Jacobs Rotary pro pak i think it was called!?!
The Jacobs Rotary pro pak i think it was called!?!
11-10-04, 10:16 PM
#40
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RX-7.com sells the new version, i want the oldschool one.
There are Weber jetting charts everywhere for rotaries..
what is your set-up and i'll see what i can find for you!
There are Weber jetting charts everywhere for rotaries..
what is your set-up and i'll see what i can find for you!
11-10-04, 10:25 PM
#41
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Originally Posted by waapst
RX-7.com sells the new version, i want the oldschool one.
There are Weber jetting charts everywhere for rotaries..
what is your set-up and i'll see what i can find for you!
There are Weber jetting charts everywhere for rotaries..
what is your set-up and i'll see what i can find for you!
Appreciate the offer on the Weber. I've got 12a streetport, racing header with wide open exhaust. Running a Weber 48 DCO s/p. RIght now I'm running 190 main, 210 air bleeder, F2 emulsion tube and 65-? idle jet. Seems a little rich. But I have no idea. The previous owner was running some weird stuff. Thanks.
11-11-04, 02:00 AM
#42
here it is. I noticed that I'm going to have to change the ends of my plugwires. the coil is a HEI style top so the regular ends don't fit on it. now if i can only find my boxes of car stuff. I had bought MSD customizeable wires and now i need to chance the ends and I can't fing the box they were in. I can't find any of my car stuff all my detailing stuff its all goin. Teaches me not to go and join the army and think my stuff will be safe at my own moms house. I'm also missing a polo suit and my back pack. I'm guessing whoever ripped me off took the backpack and stuffed it with my $h!+
Last edited by Hyper4mance2k; 11-11-04 at 02:20 AM.
11-11-04, 05:17 PM
#43
Holey **** theis is awesome i never thought an ignition could make such a difference. I'd personally like to thank Jeff20b for the advice on the accel coil and my getting the MSD cause it matched. Well right now it sits in the drive way jimmed togater. nothing is mounted its just jimmied to work and if it didn't i wan going to ook the old way back up now i know i don't have to do that at all. i started it and on half a crank it was running. Its amazing. i've got a 45dcoe with 40mm choke and most people tell me the chokes are too big cause if i rev it up and blipthe throittle there is the typical side draft hesitation. when i put the chokes on it got worse. well today there is none this is fu(king aazing i cand waitto make it perminant and go put her on the road. Hell yes!!! Oh and as far as hooking this thing up it doesn't matter where the orange and black from the msd go it worksa the same both ways.... So everyone with a msd directfire, must and i mean must go and get this coil its amazing, Forget that stock fc leading coil. Aftermarket is allways better.... I'll post pics when i get her firmly mointed 
11-12-04, 02:13 AM
#45
yea man I'm pretty stoked. I put my slicks on the car and went for a ride. It was nice and smooth. Now i really need to get some bigger jets. Expecially after what I have planned this winter. Wow i just saw my last post now and it looks like I was drunk typing it, I guess I was a little excited don't you. lolololol. I swear I'm not retarded like the guy who posted above... lol I look like an ***...lol
11-12-04, 02:40 AM
#46
Ah, don't worry about it. I sucked at typing back in '97 or whenever the 'Save the Seven' campaign started. I had shoddy sentence structure and horribly mispelled words in my post there. You'll improve if you work at it.
I've noticed something odd since getting on the internet. A majority of internet users couldn't use apostrophies correctly to save their lives. It's a strange phenomenon that I've noticed effects more UK users than most other groups. I think only about 3% of the users here know how to use them properly. Heh, even peejay screws up sometimes.
I've noticed something odd since getting on the internet. A majority of internet users couldn't use apostrophies correctly to save their lives. It's a strange phenomenon that I've noticed effects more UK users than most other groups. I think only about 3% of the users here know how to use them properly. Heh, even peejay screws up sometimes.
11-12-04, 03:19 AM
#47
Well now we're off topic, but it's my thread so I can do what ever I want. Yea, I noticed the same thing. I guess it's because most users are students and they feel as if the internet is a lower level of intelligence or something. Like some times when I'm I'm like, "Fu(k grammer tht know what I mean." Its pretty funny really. So what do you think we should call this Ignition? I'm thinking just for hummors sake the Multipule Spark Discharge Dual Ignition Source Leading Igniter Direct Firing Ignition System. a.k.a. MSDDISLIDFS. Well It's true... lol
11-12-04, 04:26 AM
#49
Eep! I don't like that acronym at all. The reason I came up with the acronym DLIDFIS was to be as descriptive as I could without using too many letters. Even though it's only seven letters, many people still screw it up. When people can't get it right, it makes online and forum searches nearly impossible. I figured seven letters = RX-7 = seven digits in a telephone number. I thought it would be easy for people to pick up on it. Of course I'm so close to the subject matter that it's hard for me to see it from another point of view.
DIS = distributorless ignition system
What you've got there is an MSDDFIS or an MSD Direct Fire Ignition System that just happens to have a DIS coil instead of two seperate coils. MSDDFIS or MSD-DFIS has been the accepted acronym for a few years now. You're welcome to add DIS on the end if you want, but it'll look weird and be pretty long.
If I go ahead and use my 2nd gen leading coil with my MSD, I suppose I could call it MSD-2GC which is MSD 2nd Gen Coil. It's short and sweet, yet this is the first time any of us have ever seen the letters in that particular arrangement, and even though it slightly resembles the now well known 2GCDFIS, it's new and will take some getting used to.
I could never condone 2GLC because I have a GLC and its stock coil is a single Hanshin with a big ignitor in a sheet metal box mounted to it. Not very attractive or desirable on a rotary. It's best to leave the L out as everybody knows when upgrading the leading ignition on a rotary, you typically don't use the trailing coils from a 2nd gen, and if you did use them, the setup would be experimental and therefore rare and therefore there is no need for an acronym.
Something like MSD-2GC is kind of useable but MSD-DISC (MSD Distributorless Ignition System Coil) is strange. Again, MSDDFIS seems to be descriptive enough so far. Saying "em es dee disk" to myself sounds like I'm talking about an MSD computer program on a diskette or something.
Hmm, what do you think about MSD-DIS or MSDDIS? We could used it as our new acronym to better describe a DIS coil hooked to an MSD box. I've got to admit that it's starting to grow on me. It's only six letters and it's hooked to a 6A or 6AL. Should a dash or hyphen (whichever you prefer as I just use the standard one on my 101 US keyboard setup, although I could use a – or — instead of the standard - if necessary) be used between MSD and DIS? Seeing two Ds together doesn't look as pleasing to the eye in text (lol, double Deez!). I think it needs a dash between them.
MSD-DIS What do you think?
Yes, I typed all that out just to try to come up with a decently descriptive acronym for the setup that you and RX-Midget have. It's also descriptive enough to cover those of us with a 2nd gen (leading) coil with our MSDs as well. Lastly, it helps to differentiate us from the old way of hooking an MSD to two coils since they (the users of this outdated system) cannot accurately use the acronym DIS and have it retain any sort of intelligeability without some creative letter juggling or really long acronyms, which defeats the point of using an acronym in the first place. I think MSD-DIS will be pretty wothwhile should we choose to accept it.
DIS = distributorless ignition system
What you've got there is an MSDDFIS or an MSD Direct Fire Ignition System that just happens to have a DIS coil instead of two seperate coils. MSDDFIS or MSD-DFIS has been the accepted acronym for a few years now. You're welcome to add DIS on the end if you want, but it'll look weird and be pretty long.
If I go ahead and use my 2nd gen leading coil with my MSD, I suppose I could call it MSD-2GC which is MSD 2nd Gen Coil. It's short and sweet, yet this is the first time any of us have ever seen the letters in that particular arrangement, and even though it slightly resembles the now well known 2GCDFIS, it's new and will take some getting used to.
I could never condone 2GLC because I have a GLC and its stock coil is a single Hanshin with a big ignitor in a sheet metal box mounted to it. Not very attractive or desirable on a rotary. It's best to leave the L out as everybody knows when upgrading the leading ignition on a rotary, you typically don't use the trailing coils from a 2nd gen, and if you did use them, the setup would be experimental and therefore rare and therefore there is no need for an acronym.
Something like MSD-2GC is kind of useable but MSD-DISC (MSD Distributorless Ignition System Coil) is strange. Again, MSDDFIS seems to be descriptive enough so far. Saying "em es dee disk" to myself sounds like I'm talking about an MSD computer program on a diskette or something.
Hmm, what do you think about MSD-DIS or MSDDIS? We could used it as our new acronym to better describe a DIS coil hooked to an MSD box. I've got to admit that it's starting to grow on me. It's only six letters and it's hooked to a 6A or 6AL.
Should a dash or hyphen (whichever you prefer as I just use the standard one on my 101 US keyboard setup, although I could use a – or — instead of the standard - if necessary) be used between MSD and DIS? Seeing two Ds together doesn't look as pleasing to the eye in text (lol, double Deez!). I think it needs a dash between them.MSD-DIS
What do you think?Yes, I typed all that out just to try to come up with a decently descriptive acronym for the setup that you and RX-Midget have. It's also descriptive enough to cover those of us with a 2nd gen (leading) coil with our MSDs as well. Lastly, it helps to differentiate us from the old way of hooking an MSD to two coils since they (the users of this outdated system) cannot accurately use the acronym DIS and have it retain any sort of intelligeability without some creative letter juggling or really long acronyms, which defeats the point of using an acronym in the first place. I think MSD-DIS will be pretty wothwhile should we choose to accept it.
11-12-04, 04:44 AM
#50
Works for me... lol Wow I'm cracking up over this subject. Although I'm pertty buzzed its still funny. Well MSD-DIS it is... I've got the First MSD-DIS FB RX-7 known. HAHAHA lol Iknew one day I'd do something special... Now I can die a happy man having a part in creating something that will help people, well rotorheads at least.
edit: Re-reading your post brings back memories. I used to call it the Dafidills ignition. lol
edit: Re-reading your post brings back memories. I used to call it the Dafidills ignition. lol
Last edited by Hyper4mance2k; 11-12-04 at 04:51 AM.
