Bigmotoxer

Yes it will stay running w/choke off if I keep the RPM's above 1300-1500.
I've changed the carb base and base-plate gaskets but not the intake gasket...dang that would suck.
yes been looking for a vacuum leak for over a week straight 8-10 hours a day, changed all hoses/lines. Yes leaning-out is exactly what it's doing, when I open the butterfly just a little while it's running it starts dying, open it too far and instant death.
Thanks i will keep all this in mind, in fact there are a few more things I have to check(the stuff you guys just posted) plus whatever rx7doctor has for me this afternoon/tonight and then I think I'm gonna pull it all off, carb, base, intake, every damn thing.
Hey if the leading ignitor was bad it wouldn't run at idle at all would it? whether choke was on or off right? wrong? i dunno.

Bigmotoxer

You're insane

trochoid

iTrader: (6)

2 thing s I noticed briefly reading through this thread. The intake gasket, did you take the intake off and reuse the old gasket? That's a nono. Carb gasket, yes they come with the kit, no you don't use them. The carb spacer is it's own gasket.

Rx-7Doctor

iTrader: (13)

He did not take the manifold off.

Kentetsu

If the car dies when you open the butterfly on the secondaries, I'd say you are correct in the "leaning out" theory. Maybe try removing the fuel pressure regulator, just to see what happens?

Also, are you sure that you put the jets back in their proper locations (two different sizes, and its been done before)?

85rotarypower

This probably has nothing to do with the jets. The idle circuit is its own and doesn't rely on the jet size. Also, its not likely this is ignition related as it probalby wouldn't run at all if it was. Forgive me if I sound like a smartass, but I've had very similar problems to this on both the original 12A with nikki carb and my new engine. Its got to be either a bad vacuum leak or a clogged idle circuit.

One thing you can try is richening the idle mixture with the idle mix screw. Its the screw with a spring around it mounted at a 45* angle on the carb body. It will be on the drivers side toward the back of the carb if I remember correctly. If you turn the screw counter clockwise, it will richen the idle mixture, if you turn it clockwise it will lean out. If the car will run without the choke with this screw turned further out counterclockwise, its a definate that your leaning out. It could still be clogged idle circuit passages or a bad vacuum leak though.

EDIT: That screw is actually in the carb base (just below the main body) and in the center. Its on the drivers side though. Wow its been a while since I even looked at a Nikki. I personally hate it, much to complicated.

Bigmotoxer

No the car dies when I open the choke butterfly on the primary...as if you were turning the choke off but I was doing it manually standing over the car to see just how touchy it was...but I'm about to tell you all a story that might get me..umm..laughed at

Rogue_Wulff

If you have found the issue, and got it corrected, or at least know how to correct it, how 'bout we just laugh with you, not at you?

Bigmotoxer

Well I've tried numerous times to find out where the idle circuit is and where it runs, ect...I know it's my own fault for being impatient and not having that damn shop manual that I was suppose to have 2 weeks ago.
rx7 doctor is right I have not removed the intake manifild. I removed the nikki w/the 10mm bolts and then I *cough* removed the spacer plate w/the 12mm nuts which left the studs sticking up. I realized after prying it up that it was sealed pretty damn good and maybe should've just left it alone but I didn't wanna rebuild the carb then install it again just to find out later that the gasket under the spacer plate was leaking or something...U know fix while it's already apart(even if it's not broke)...getting to my point; Since the carb kit came w/a base/spacer plate gasket that, dimension-wise, was what went between the spacer plate and intake, the old gasket was so hard that removing it was not gonna happen w/out gasket remover and probably getting **** in the intake so I slid the gasket on the studs, put the spacer-plate on, bolted it down, put the carb gasket on(between the spacer plate and carb), put the carb on, tightened everything down, hooked everything up.
Well today I yanked all the **** back off and when I removed the spacer plate(completely removed it this time...didn't just lift it up like last time)I noticed a few very small holes coming out of the bottom of the spacer and going into the intake(never got an answer on this but I'm assuming this is part of the idle circuit? Anyway, I can only assume that this would cause some sort of problem w/air/fuel flow/mixture? Have I found my problem? My F*#@ up? Maybe. But I know this, if that is my problem why don't they send the proper gasket? And also since I need a gasket there now should I use one of these nicely fitting gaskets and dril some small holes in it for these holes coming from the spacerplate to the intake? Because if I put nothing I'm afraid as hard as the old gasket it that I won't have a seal.
You have permission to bust my *****!

Rogue_Wulff

Long answer made short. The "Spacer" is the factory gasket, you don't want to know what they cost. If you use the thin paper gaskets, by all means, do make the tiny holes in them. Both the spacer to intake, and spacer to carb hole are important.
Unfortunately, this is not related to the idle circuit. That is internal carb passages for the fuel flow at idle.

Rogue_Wulff

Oh, and inspect the spacer very well. A cracked spacer can and will cause massive vacuum leaks.

Bigmotoxer

What is the "internal carb passages for fuel flow at idle"? you mean the holes from spacer to intake are the internal carb passages for fuel flow at idle?

Rogue_Wulff

Sorry, I wasn't very clear about that part. The idle circuit is inside the carb. It handles the fuel flow during the idle condition. One part of the idle curcuit is the idle mixture screw, which regulates how much fuel is allowed thru this small maze of passages. It doesn't take much crud to completely block these passages, as they are rather small.

Bigmotoxer

I see, well when I rebuilt the carb I removed all jets one at a time so that they would be put back in their proper place, I used carb-cleaner and compressed air and left no stone unturned ...except for the spacer gasket thing, ha...ha.
I think this is my problem and I'm going to fix it now, if it's not the problem then after I get it back together I'm gonna blow a gasket of my own.

Has anyone out there made their own gasket for this spacer-plate gasket? I have some 20thou" gasket material that's way better stuff than the carbkit gaskets which are also .020" I believe. i don't wanna pay Mazda price but I don't want to have to take this carb off again either... for a while anyway.

Rogue_Wulff

I don't remember (been way too long) if there is anything to remove in the idle circuit, other than the mixture screw. It can be rather easy to miss one or more of these passages during the cleaning and blowing out process.
Before re-installing the spacer, inspect it real well. Even the smallest crack in it, can cause vacuum leak night mares.
As for making gaskets for the spacer, I haven't done it. Some of those tiny holes are essential, while others are just for emmision stuff.

Bigmotoxer

10-4 goodbuddy. I'll go inspect and I'll be back asap for any other feedback. thanks

trochoid

iTrader: (6)

The rebuild kits for the carbs are universal for all years. I have yet to use an included carb to intake gasket from the kit on a 1st gen carb rebuild. The spacer is it's own gasket. Inspect it well, you may have compromised the seal when you pried on it. If it's damaged, post a wtb in the for sale section for a newer one. I do know that some of the gaskets have the vac ports that match the spacer. If the spacer is compromised, I would use one of the gaskets only as a last resort until you can locate a good one. Do not use gasket sealer when mounting the spacer or gasket, it will plug the vac ports.

Kentetsu

Make sure that you don't install the spacer and/or gasket in a position that is either flipped over or upside down...

Aviator 902S

No kidding... You're saying just place the spacer onto the manifold dry and then mount the carb? Will this still seal properly? I mounted the one on my wife's '85 using a very thin coat of silicone. Hard to tell if this had any negative effects on vacuum leaks because I haven't yet gotten around to replacing all of her old and brittle hoses...

Bigmotoxer

I just replied to a message from Trochoid and I'll paste it here for you...funny that you mention the upside-down gasket...I mean it is reeaally funny, hardy har...har, Not!


I just got back in, carb is installed again...I took the carb back apart for good measure and guess what? The good news is yes all jets/ect are free of clog still but the bad news, which is now good news is that I found out that I happen to put the top carb gasket in upside freaking down..I'm more mechanically inclined than this..uh on dirtbikes.
I feel so stupid anyway I put a new one in the right way...it freakin fits both ways but it doesn't have that little 90 degree/"L" shaped piece on one side....duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

So this finding PLUS the gasket plugging the holes on the bottom of the spacer-plate together was hopefully my problem.
My plugs are fouled from the sea foam treatment, gotta go to autozone first thing in A.M. to pick up the rest of my brake parts and I'll pick up a new set of plugs, I know I can clean them but I'm so sure it will crank and run properly now(I hope) that I might as well get new ones, they have Bosch but I'll order some NGK later, cause that's all I will run in my race bikes, might as well have them in my traffic violating car.
I probably won't be able to sleep tonight!
Oh and you know I'll be letting you guys know if I'm still having problems!
Thanks

Bigmotoxer

What no comments? C'mon somebody wants to say something.
I can feel you laughing.

trochoid

iTrader: (6)

Correct, no sealer. Another reason not to use a sealer is if you need to take it apart at a later date, it may tear up the gasket that's bonded to the phenolic spacer from the factory. The FI setups have the same type of spacer and I have yet to find one that has had any type of sealer from the factory, carb or FI.

Kentetsu

The seafoam shouldn't have fouled your plugs, you can actually clean them in the stuff. Gas and oil will foul them though, and they usually end up that way after flooding. I use a drill with a wire brush to clean mine, then hose them down with brake cleaner afterwards.

Glad you found the problem (hopefully). Now get ready to zoom zoom!