VashtheStampede

ok, so i just picked up an 83 (gs? i have no idea what trim it is, but theres no LSD, no rear wiper, hand-powered windows, actually has power mirrors. thats about all i know)

i gave it an oil change and installed new:
oil filter, fuel filter, spark plugs, distributor cap and rotor,
plug wires, air filter, and battery cable terminal end thingies.

so here is the problem. i mean aside from the fact that the only interior light that works is hanging down where the stereo used to be, and that if you turn the brights on, the headlights turn off. =)

there is almost NO power. i mean this car would get its *** kicked by a kid on a skateboard. im seriously scared to enter the highway. it doesnt even rev very fast in neutral. if you let it sit at idle, it will eventually get slower and slower till it cant support itself and falls over dead. shifting into 5th gear (provided you have the necessary highway miles to get up to speed) virtually eliminates the ability to accelerate.

ok, so heres the upshot. i have had 3 or 4 (maybe 5) occasions where it actually responded with full power. it seems to me usually that happened going around a sharp right-hander in 1st gear. once it happened in 2nd gear. somehow whatever is wrong just went away and i could accelerate like any other normal car... until it got to a high rpm then it choked itself back to bein a little sissy again. i dont know what is going on here, but i'd really like to figure it out.

possible causes that i thought of include:
bad ignition coils/ignitors/distributor
bad vacum secondary operation
clogged cat
mis-tuned carb
totally maladjusted timing

bad ignition parts... i suppose i could swap the position of the coils and see if it runs better. ignitors, i dont know. can you swap them? distributor.. i dont even know where to begin with that.

bad vacum secondary. well that could account for crappy acceleration, but should my idle/cruise be unaffected by malfunctioning secondaries?

clogged cat. ok now this is what i was initially thinking about, especially because the previous owner had some total piece of crap for a belt on the air-pump, that was too big and waaaayy too loose on the pulleys. as i understand things, if you arent getting fresh air injected into the factory cat it will clog itself. but i dont understand how it could go away for a one-gear pull every now and then. i will likely be getting the cat replaced with a bit-o-pipe soon anyhow. i also thought that this much restriction in the cat would overheat the exhaust enough to show. my 88tII had a clogged cat and it glowed cherry red!

mis-tuned carb. the previous owner said it ran fine in the summer, but that the choke was stuck and it didnt run well in the cold. i discovered that what he meant was the **** was missing from the end of the choke cable at the dash. oh well. i pulled the choke closed with my hand anyway. it seems to work fine for me. i have never owned a carburetted car before, so i dont know anything about tuning them, but i have heard that you might need to tune your carb with the season changes. any advice on tuning would be appreciated.

mal-adjusted timing. i suppose its possible. i'll set the timing as soon as i can get to a timing light. since i let a friend leave town while he still had my last one i cant really check the timing right now.


ok, so if anybody has an idea, or some test i can do to find a cause for this problem, i would love to hear it. oh yes, and i havent done a compression test. i dont want to. it doesnt have bad compression. shut up. bastards. i cant hear you, i cant hear you, i cant hear you.......

i guess that will be coming too.

VashtheStampede

oh my god that was a long, long post. i hope someone has the patience to read it.

RotorMotorDriver

iTrader: (1)

Ok, my suggestions.

1. Unbolt the cats from the manifold, see if it runs better.
2. Check timing, even though I dont think its your problem, as the timing will not change when your driving unless one of the adjustors is loose.
3. Check the ignition system completely.

I dont think that any of these will cause what you describe. I personally think its fuel related, as turning a corner wouldnt affect other things. I think that you have some carb problems...Maybe you have a stuck float thats flodding it out? Or just a bad mixture? There are two screws on the carb. One is the idle speed, and one is the mixture. The "easiest" way to adjust the mixture is to do it per the manual. Turn the screw right until the engine starts to "hunt" then turn it back to smooth it out. That will get you in the rough area. As far as idle speed goes, it should be set at ~750 RPMs before you try adjusting the mixture. So start with ignition, set the timimg. Then go to the carb and set the idle. You may have to mess with the mixture while you mess with the idle though too...It not as hard as it sounds though. Like if the idle is set high, but the mixture is really lean, then when you lower the idle, the car will want to die, so you need to richen the mixture to compensate. Just work your way around until you get an idle of ~750 RPMs. I had similar problems on my 85 GSL, but I just fiddled with the adjustor screws until I got it right (two days, hours on end, but thats not the point) and I didnt even have a manual. Anyway, good luck .

~T.J.

Stepdaddy

i read it...i got no idea what to say next though

Stepdaddy

WackyRotary

Opps, I gave up, damn ADD=attention depicit disorder.

djmickyg

the carby blocked? accelerator pump blocked? have u checked the compression? and check if all 4 plugs are sparking, u got some electrical problems

RotorMotorDriver

iTrader: (1)

Oh yeah, I suppose if your trailing plugs werent firing it would cause you some MAJOR grief, but I dont see how turning a corner would cause them to suddenly start firing...

~T.J.

EDIT: To check if all the plugs are firing, just simple take a timing light and hook the two terminals up to the battery as youre supposed to, but instead of hooking the other one to the coil wire, just hook it up to which ever spark plug wire you want to check, then pull the trigger. If it blinks, you have spark. If not, you have problems.

djmickyg

turning a corner might temporarily un short two shorted out wires ?? thats my 2 sents

MosesX605

Well it seems to me that our carbs are vnerable to fuel starvation when executing fairly tight turns. Now if his floats are flooding, the turns may be temporarily unflooding them, giving him the proper amount (or close to it) of fuel. At any rate, a carb teardown seems to be in order.

Matt
1979 SA22C

JIMMY54

iTrader: (2)

I had the same thing happen to me....then my engine lost ALL power and never started again. What would happen with me is that i'd be driving with a small amount of power loss then take a turn quickly and suddenly either lose ALL power or have more power. The engine puffed out some smoke from the exhaust whenever i would lose power. It kept doing this until finally would just lose all power to the point of never starting again. Turns out i needed a new engine. Hopefully thats not your case.

VashtheStampede

doh.

thanks for the responses.
except for jimmy54 cause he's a bastard.......
i cant hear you i cant hear you



ok. today i will get a compression test done,
look at the ignition system in depth,
check voltage to the fuel pump,
TRY to adjust the carb. hahaha.

how do you adust float levels on the stock nikki?

oh well. you know what? i only paid 300 bucks for it, so im not gonna be too upset if i find it needs rebuilt. but i think it should be still good.

Wankelguy

The trailing plugs really don't affect power that much, unless their not firing affects the catalytic converter's operation somehow. I don't know about that possibility, never having owned a rotary so equipped. I think this is a carburetor problem, myself. -WG

VashtheStampede

one more thing i forgot to mention. the previous owner said he had completely replaced the wiring harnesses. which is the reason the interior lights dont work.

what would happen if you had the coils wired opposite?
is it ok to just switch the high-tension leads off of the coils and see if it runs better? or would that possibly hurt something?

Directfreak

iTrader: (2)

Please check for crud in the fuel filter as well.
Should be near the left rear tire

RotorMotorDriver

iTrader: (1)

Here we go...Now were getting into it, lol.

The front coil closest to the radiator/front of the car is supposed to be the trailing coil. The other one obviously is the leading. The coils are interchangeable, so if the trailing was wired as the leading, then yes, swapping the wires would help. Although, I would reccomend you not doing it until you get another opinion. I only say this because I dont think the car would even run if the coils were backwards, so if you go swapping stuff, you could possibly hurt something. I just dont think this is the problem...Is there a specific reason you do?

~T.J.

RotorMotorDriver

iTrader: (1)

He said he replaced it, although, I have replaced one and then have it immediatly clog up with gunk again because the pump could actually move the gas, which created enough vacuum to suck up more gunk...I think thats what happened anyway. Oh well, I just know it clogged right after I replaced it.

You could also do what I did and get a cheap inline glass fuel filter so you can actually see the gas in your lines. That way, you can watch the glass filter's fuel level dropping cause theres not enough fuel flow cause you have a clogged filter .

~T.J.

PS - You did install the filter the right way too...Right? With the arrow pointing the right way? I dont even know if it would work the otherway, I just thought Id ask...

NanaimoRx-7

Not to be picky but the timing does change while driving, unless I didn't read that he locked his dizzy in that long post. (Stupid ADD).

However, I would definately look into the coils. Mine got reversed once, and I have no idea who did it. Car was running great, parked somewhere, when I got back it was missing power, didn't want to rev and souded funny. Limped home and got out my timing light, put it on the leading plug and reved the engine to check my full timing, as I reved the engine the light when OUT like my trailing ignition is supposed to. I never found out who did it, but I would have been mighty pissed if it killed my engine !!!

Of course, I guess I got the last laugh, because they were probably expecting me not to be able to drive away. Luckily I had rececently advanced my timing to 20 and 10*, suckers!! All hail the rotary.

VashtheStampede

when i replaced the fuel filter, the gas coming out of the line was crystal clear. and yes, i put it in the right direction. :p but it was acting this way even before i changed the filter so im dismissing it as a likely candidate.

as far as the distributor goes, i would like to lock the timing. whenever i figure out how to do that i probably will. i havent gotten to touch the car yet today, so i still dont even know what the timing is set to anyhow. i suppose it is possible that the guy rewired the coils backwards and then totally jacked up the timing untill it ran that way. it was just an idea.

im going to have a friend with 2 1st gens give me a hand looking at the carb today in a little bit, so hopefully i will know more then.

i think he meant aside from the normal vac/mech advance it shouldnt change. like i was saying it would run ok sometimes and seemed sharp right-handers were the cause. timing shouldnt be affected by turning or going up hills unless theres something loose.

NanaimoRx-7

Of course, the swapped coil theory does start to fall apart if the car performs better when taking a hard turn. Let us know what you find. MosesX605 might be on the right track with fuel bowls unflooding on sharp turns, as the are apparently notorious for leaning out/ stumbling out of right hand turns...although I've never had that experience myself.

error402

Well, I've looked at his car and the secondaries aren't opening. So, we'll look into that first. :P

-Error402

djmickyg

they aint opening cus there seized? or because the vacume thingy aint working?

nimrodTT

I've seen you say this before, and I do not fell the same way, and I've told you it before. If your car has full time trailing ignition, you will be able to easily feel the difference of its absence, especially if you're running a significant amount of timing advance.


Vash,
My guess is electrical, mostlikely timing. A loose dizzy flopping around could make the power come and go, though I wouldn't think it would be such a night and day difference. So check that timing!

error402

Well, we fixed his problem…converted him to mechanical secondaries.

The only problem the secondary throttle plates doesn't open 100%...more like 85%. Plus we didn't modify the accelerator pump at all.

-Error402

RotorMotorDriver

iTrader: (1)

I also just wanted in throw out another thought. When my friend had an 82 RX-7 in really good shape, he said that it was running and driving slow (he drove it all the way to Woodinville from Bellingham, and has been driving it daily for a few weeks now). I took it for a spin, and it felt like the secondaries werent opening. So, I temporarily converted it to mechanical and took it for a spin. No change. We couldnt figure out what it was, and since I knew the secondaires were working now (dont ask how I figured it out, it was dangerous ), I went ahead and put it all back together. Anyway, we all went out to the local pool hall to play some pool. About 3 hours later we went to go grab some food, and his 7 wont start. No fuel pump noises at all. Fuel pump was shot. So, me having my 7, I run to the house thats 30 mins away in about 20, get some money to make it to the autoparts store that closes at 9 by 8:50, pick up the pump, and head back to the pool hall. I put the pump in for him in the parking lot with no jack or anything (mainly cause I was the only one that knew how of 10 people, but also because I was the only one that could fit with no jack). She fired right up after that, and ran better than mine did. He outran me the whole way home, and he weighs a good 250 LBS vs my 125. Just food for though.

~T.J.

PS - I think my car is getting a little fuel starvation with the RB exhaust...Possible? Im upgrading my pump soon anyway, as I plan on aftermarket intake eventually, I was just wondering if anyone has heard of this.

VashtheStampede

Woo Hoo!!!

im so happy to find it was a simple problem, and not a bad motor.

anyone who has mechanical secondaries, how did you link the throttle plates together? we used the wire from a bread twist-tie to link the secondary cam to the primary cam on the firewall side of the carb. (sorry i cant get more descriptive than that, i dont have my camera with me.)

the problem is, as Error402 stated, the secondary throttle plates never reach full vertical position, and transition from primary to secondary is ungodly. it doesnt bog unless i'm at really low rpm's and i try to open the secondaries, but the transition is smooth by no means. its like an on/off switch... one moment you're putting around with not much power, and the next... BOOM!!!! Solid Rocket Boosters have ignition.
the seat-of-the-pants thrust feels awesome, though. hehe.

the difference in spring tension on the primary and secondary throttle cams is enormous. there is quite a bit of travel in the primary-only area of throttle pedal action that has light resistance and is very easy to press. and then there is the hard resisting secondary area. at first i didnt think we had fixed it since the secondary throttle spring resistance felt like the floor and it took me a little while to realize there was more travel. hehehe

thank you all for your great responses,
even the ones i didnt want to hear. hahaha