djessence

and pressure too, doesnt tell you as much but still handy

Rx-7Doctor

iTrader: (13)

Bump
________

Patience grasshopper. We wait 24 hours to bump technical threads. :-)

Sterling

WAY good start!Absolutely NOT enough info there. Very vague. The first one makes no sense, and the second one can be taken three different ways and applied to at least two different scenerios (under load, like while passing, or at cruise, etc...). C'mon, overload us with info.
Right now it could be anything from your secondaries not being hooked up to your tires are all flat. Give us more info.Why would you even think for a second that they were not plugged?I'm glad you got the ignition system out of the way. Gotta rule out as many variables as possible.The pump is fine, don't worry about it. Is your return line check valve in backwards? -That little in-line gizmo that the FSM refers to as the "resistor"? It's a check valve. Needs to be in the right way or else you're dead-heading the carb. That might make your pump sound funny.It's good that you've checked all these things. Now go look up "Air Flow Dynamics".It's not the "secondary" float bowl. There's no such thing. I can say with certainty that you're probably better off leaving a float bowl alone that has a level all fucked up than messing around with setting the float level a FOURTH time, especially if you're incorrectly referring to it as a "secondary" float bowl after all this time!
Leave it! It's not the fuel pump.Make sure everything's plugged properly. You'll need a plate for the manni.The fuel pump comes on for a second when you first turn on the key. It's on a relay so it shuts off if the rest of the system doesn't fire up.Something is wrong there.Fix it now....An act of desperation? It's understandable.Good job. Never overlook the simple stuff.Two questions; Is the safety return spring assembly correctly in place? It's a rocker/cradle type gizmo on top of the bracket where the main return spring is located.
Also, with all your messing around, did you ever drop the carburetor? Could it have been dropped by someone before you? If the inkage is tweaked from being dropped, it may never close all the way. Moving the idle speed screw out should make it come all the way down to dead.Hit the books, buddy. More fuel would cause your idle to drop, not rise. The rotary carb idles happily @ about an 8:1 air/fuel ratio. You introduce air into that mixture via a vacuum leak to raise it to a mixture ratio of 16:1, and the revs go up, not down. More air makes the fuel burn hotter and faster, but with less power. "WTF", indeed, dude. You suck out the remaining faith we have in your ability to assess these problems when you don't even refer to the float bowls properly! The primary & secondary main circuits each share the float bowls. The primary half of the carb is the half with the smaller venturis and the seco... *sigh*, -Well, you know. Just try to refer to things properly, OK?NEVER bear down on the jets! NEVER!

NEVER!Dude, what the **** were you thinking? You can't even get the carb to run right and you go dicking around with mec-secs. I TOLD you not to. How did you mechanize them? Tell us EXACTLY what you did. EXACTLY. Did you wire them? Did you weld them? Did you use duct tape?
...Or did you leave the linkage dangling in expectation that they'd just magically "work"? The secondary diaphragm is prompted from the pressure differential (vacuum) created in an orifice at the apex of one of the primary venturis. It's "pre idle circuit", and so cannot create a vacuum leak for the idle circuit. It does, however, allow unfiltered air in, so I plug it.The charcoal canister serves two purposes; it vents the carb and tank, storing fuel and water vapor when the car is off, and it lets those vapors get sucked into the carb when the engine is on. It's not hurting anything right now.
-Does your gas tank "whoosh" when you remove the cap?Lucky for you and other carb fumble-******* there's no way to pressurize the float bowls! You think you have problems now! Teed off of what on the carb?None. They either work, or they don't. They're a piston design. They wear ever so slightly, get a little tired, but before you would ever have any serious flow problems, they die completely. You do not have a fuel pump problem.

orion84gsl

iTrader: (5)

My tank goes WHOOSH when I take the cap off. Usually the closer to empty I am the louder or more prolonged it is.

Sterling

Then it's not venting properly. You'll have fuel pressure consistency problems on a stock setup (no diaphragm FPR) as a result. Can't say what it will do with a FPR in place, though.
However, I'm inclined to think that's actually beneficial regarding water condensation in the fuel tank. -Course, how good is that side benefit if you keep stalling out?

Sterling

...Off I go to work on carbs.

orion84gsl

iTrader: (5)

We will certainly find out the benefits or lack of when my carb gets here I've never had any stalling problems that weren't directly related to me forgetting to let the clutch out AFTER I turn the car off.

Experiment.Seven

Quote:
Cleaned gas tank
Replaced fuel lines
Replaced fuel filter with 10 micron filter
Rebuilt carb
Cleaned strainers
Cleaned out float bowls
Set floats - Reads correct in sight glass
Took off dashpot
Emmissions delete
Re-routed emmisions/vacuumm lines CORRECTLY
Took off AAB #2
Took off air compressor/AC
Tested fuel pump for flow and pressure

WAY good start!
Quote:
...the symptoms of it is that it will lose acceleration and power at RANDOM times.

Absolutely NOT enough info there. Very vague. The first one makes no sense, and the second one can be taken three different ways and applied to at least two different scenerios (under load, like while passing, or at cruise, etc...). C'mon, overload us with info.
Right now it could be anything from your secondaries not being hooked up to your tires are all flat. Give us more info.

- It is a intermittent totally random problem. I can be cruising in 5th at 2K or starting to get on it in 4th heading to 5K. There is one that always works though. Starting out and WOT'ing it until 5K in 3rd gear: Stalls every time.

Quote:
...it still has cats on it but i have removed emmisions and ran seafoam and B-12 Chemtool through it...so the cat is most likely demolished.

Why would you even think for a second that they were not plugged?

- Hence clearing em out VVV =]

Quote:
Ok i have more to add to the list:

New ignition wires
Cleaned rotor and distributor cap
Gapped spark plugs (good)
Cleared out catalytic convertor

Still has the same symptoms.

I'm glad you got the ignition system out of the way. Gotta rule out as many variables as possible.
Quote:
I noticed the fuel pump makes a wierd noise...i wasn't sure if it's alays done it but it made the usually clicking sound and then intermittently it would have a lower gurgling sound and then go back to clicking. Is this normal? Or is it going out?

The pump is fine, don't worry about it. Is your return line check valve in backwards? -That little in-line gizmo that the FSM refers to as the "resistor"? It's a check valve. Needs to be in the right way or else you're dead-heading the carb. That might make your pump sound funny.

- No the return check valve is in properly. I'm getting a new pump today anyways just for the sake of ruling out EVERYTHING.

Quote:
I don't think it's the carb...i am studying the flow dynamics of the stock nikki and everything seems to be in order. My passageways should all be clean due to compressed air being blown through them. Check ***** and counterwieghts are all in the correct order. All the air bleeds are in their correct places, as well as the main jets aren't switched around.
The diaphragm in the accelerator pump is brand new and the spring hasn't been compressed. The accelerator pump lever is set to FSM standards.

It's good that you've checked all these things. Now go look up "Air Flow Dynamics".

- Will do. =D

Quote:
One thing i haven't YET confirmed but i am suspecting is that the secondary float bowl is not within float levels..it's too high. I read in Sterling's post that if it's too high that it will be detrimental to acceleration due to being flooded out? Will someone confirm this for me.

It's not the "secondary" float bowl. There's no such thing. I can say with certainty that you're probably better off leaving a float bowl alone that has a level all fucked up than messing around with setting the float level a FOURTH time, especially if you're incorrectly referring to it as a "secondary" float bowl after all this time!
Leave it!

- Point taken. I just referred to it as "secondary" and "primary" i guess for the sake of relation to the carb.

Quote:
SO...if all these things are fine and in working order i suppose it's the fuel pump? Hmmm...i could hook up a voltmeter to it and moniter it while i drive to see if it's going out i suppose. But as i stated in the other post it makes a different noise now...is that what they do before they totally go out?

It's not the fuel pump.

- Getting a new one anywho. =]

Quote:
...i haven't taken the shutter valve off. I plan on doing it sometime just not at the moment.
Where is the AAV#1 located? I took off the #2 AAB Valve.

Make sure everything's plugged properly. You'll need a plate for the manni.

- Got it. All blocked off. No mani vacuum leaks.

Quote:
And also i really need to know if the fuel pump makes the same sound all the time or does it vary? Does it always make the "clicking" sound or does it make it a gurgling noise every so often as well?

The fuel pump comes on for a second when you first turn on the key. It's on a relay so it shuts off if the rest of the system doesn't fire up.

- Sooo...it builds pressure? Mine constantly clicks before i start my car. Like it's constantly running...

Quote:
...when it occurs it sounds like only one rotor is running....and i lose power and it decelerates slowly. BUT i don't have anything hooked to the shutter valve...no nest. And they are capped off. SO i don't think that is it, but i will go ahead a pin it open tonight.

Something is wrong there.

- Enlighten me. Theorize with me.

Quote:
I'll remove it after i get this problem fixed.
It sounds like in your post that the shutter and AAV are the same thing..? The shutter valve is a 'emission purpose only' device correct? It just closes the intake runner on DECEL so as to not waste gas and prevent backfires into the catalytic convertor.

Fix it now.

- I'll pick up some JB Weld tonight. The shutter valve never had a problem before the rebuild.

Quote:
Well i screwed around with the slow air bleeds LOL and switched them and ran the car....ran like ****. So i switched em back around and put it back on the car to make sure everything was in good working order.

...An act of desperation? It's understandable.

- Hahah yes yes...very desperate. =P

Quote:
ALSO i took out the check ***** and wieghts and made sure it was:

CHECK BALL -> Counterwieght -> Banjo

Good job. Never overlook the simple stuff.

- EXACTLY!

Quote:
I turned it on and it was idling at 1300. I go to the engine and notice the vacuum advance wasn't hooked up. DUH. So i hooked it up and it went to about 1150 RPM. I adjuted the idle adjust screw to the farthest out (lowest idle capability)....which SHOULD be NON FUNCTIONAL. I played with the mixture adjust screw as well....i tightened it all the way and it was still running the same. o_O

Two questions; Is the safety return spring assembly correctly in place? It's a rocker/cradle type gizmo on top of the bracket where the main return spring is located.
Also, with all your messing around, did you ever drop the carburetor? Could it have been dropped by someone before you? If the inkage is tweaked from being dropped, it may never close all the way. Moving the idle speed screw out should make it come all the way down to dead.

- It idles fine now.

Quote:
My thought: It's idling high because of fuel dribbling out of my (primary venturi outlets?) - which is due to the float bowl over filling in turn pushing more fuel out the primary jets then needed. I haven't touched my floats since setting them to FSM/OEM specs. I mean...it idled perfect before. Now it's flooding like mad. YES my vent solenoid is hooked up. And the air bleeds and everything are where they should be.

Hit the books, buddy. More fuel would cause your idle to drop, not rise. The rotary carb idles happily @ about an 8:1 air/fuel ratio. You introduce air into that mixture via a vacuum leak to raise it to a mixture ratio of 16:1, and the revs go up, not down. More air makes the fuel burn hotter and faster, but with less power.
Quote:
I look at the secondary (one closest to the front of the car) float bowl and it's at perfect level as always. I can't see the primary float bowl level due to choke linkage. I turn it off and take it off, set it onto the table and check the float levels out.
Secondary bowl is DEAD NUTS.
Primary is so full i have to tilt it to even see the bubble.
WTF.

"WTF", indeed, dude. You suck out the remaining faith we have in your ability to assess these problems when you don't even refer to the float bowls properly! The primary & secondary main circuits each share the float bowls. The primary half of the carb is the half with the smaller venturis and the seco... *sigh*, -Well, you know. Just try to refer to things properly, OK?

- Sorry man. Just using those names as reference points.

Quote:
I didn't alter anything from how it was setup before hand, can you overtighten the air bleeds? That's the only thing i can think of that I MAY have done differently. I tightened them pretty dang tight so there was no leaks.

NEVER bear down on the jets! NEVER!

NEVER!

- Did this screw it all up then...that i tightened them tighter than you should??? =[

Quote:
...WELL i did take off the secondary vacuum diaphragm because i have MECH secondaries now.

Dude, what the **** were you thinking? You can't even get the carb to run right and you go dicking around with mec-secs. I TOLD you not to. How did you mechanize them? Tell us EXACTLY what you did. EXACTLY. Did you wire them? Did you weld them? Did you use duct tape?
...Or did you leave the linkage dangling in expectation that they'd just magically "work"?

- I just wired them to open up as the primarys were approching WOT.

Quote:
I didn't plug the hole that was left, i wasn't sure if a substantial amount of vacuum was pulled there or not. I put my finger over it when it was running and the idle was still high.

The secondary diaphragm is prompted from the pressure differential (vacuum) created in an orifice at the apex of one of the primary venturis. It's "pre idle circuit", and so cannot create a vacuum leak for the idle circuit. It does, however, allow unfiltered air in, so I plug it.

- That's what i was theorizing from diagrams but wasn't sure. Thanks for confirmation!

Quote:
Does the carb vent have to be T'eed into the line to the charcoal canister? Does it matter if i leave it open to atmosphere....does it need a vacuum source on it??

The charcoal canister serves two purposes; it vents the carb and tank, storing fuel and water vapor when the car is off, and it lets those vapors get sucked into the carb when the engine is on. It's not hurting anything right now.
-Does your gas tank "whoosh" when you remove the cap?

It swooshes SOMETIMES. lol



Quote:
That might be my problem if i need a vacuum to pressureize the air in my float bowls.

Lucky for you and other carb fumble-******* there's no way to pressurize the float bowls! You think you have problems now!
Quote:
Well i hooked up a T into my oil vent line for a full crankcase ventilation.

Teed off of what on the carb?

- The float bowl vent into my oil vent which gor to my little valve (forget it's name)

Quote:
Question Syptoms of fuel pump failure?
What are they?

None. They either work, or they don't. They're a piston design. They wear ever so slightly, get a little tired, but before you would ever have any serious flow problems, they die completely. You do not have a fuel pump problem.

- Gettin a new one! =D




Thanks for al the info Sterling. I've been waiting for your advice.


How much would you charge if i shipped the carb to you and you looked at it for me?

Sterling

Can't tell you. It's against the rules. There's a company that i know of called "Sterling Metal Works". Rumor has it they do Nikki carbs real well.

orion84gsl

iTrader: (5)

Yeah apparently the guy that runs it is really good at what he does. Something about good customer service, something like that. I find it hard to believe but thats whats been said. If I recall correctly the website is www.sterlingmetalworks.com It may or may not contain the info your looking for.

Experiment.Seven

If i had the money for a Sterling i would be all over it. Unfortunately i make due with what i have. I'm a poor 18 year old. =/

I drove it again after checking, double checking, replacing, the whole nine yards.

It does it MUCH less now. But it ALWAYS happens at 5000 RPMS in 3rd OR at 7000 in 2nd.

Quote: Sterling

"Another tank related situation that can cause inconsistent flow problems is an inability for the tank to breathe. The tank breathes thru the charcoal canister in engine bay, and if that has been removed, or the PCV system has been removed, condensate can sit in the tank braether line and plug it. A tank breathing problem is evident by a "whooshing" sound when you open the fuel cap after a hard run."

This has happened to me sometimes but not everytime...could this be causing what i am experiencing? Are these the symptoms of that?

List of things to check tomorrow:

Check Timing
Check rotor and distributor AGAIN

I noticed now that it only occurs when it's under WOT for more than about....5-8 seconds? If i'm just cruising it's fine. But as soon as i floor it for a extended amount of time it begins to bog and buck and sputter etc etc.

What do you guys think.

Exhaust backpressure RULED OUT
Carb (from what i can compare to the manuals and diagrams: Everything is in order) ~ RULED OUT
Something to do with ignition SUSPECTED
Fuel Delivery RULED OUT

Now even if my float bowl on one side is too high...it wouldn't exhibit these symptoms would it?

Sterling

You're eighteen, huh? I thought you were 16. The whole "I've been around longer than you think" bullshit in yer sig's gotta go, man. Clearly you haven't been. Wipe the placenta from yer face and READ. You're clearly not qualified to question what most of the people on this board tell you, and you continue to do so. They tell you what the problem most likely is, and you continue to go off in another direction. It's ******* annoying is what it is.
WTF, dude? I'm beginning to wonder if you don't need attention more than you need your car fixed.

You're carb is starving of fuel. Fuel filter may be plugged or in backwards. Maybe you botched your secondary wire-up job.

Experiment.Seven

O_O Didn't expect a response so harsh man...i did stop posting on here because the feedback i get is all negative and quite rude. Maybe i am asking for it...i don't know but i do know that i want to learn as much about rotaries and rx7s as possible even with you and some other guys having to be personal on here rather than just help a fellow member out with their carb issues.

I am quite aware you and alot of others know ALOT more than i do and i take it all into consideration even if i don't respond to it in my posts. I don't mean to sound rude or "annoying" or whatever to anyone...i just want to learn about the carb so i can diagnose the problem myself. I personally hate it when people just read off the symptoms and expect someone to answer....****** LEARN and fix it with your own intelligence!!!


I guess i have pushed yours and others limits to far again so i will continue to just be a reader. And for you Sterling i will change my sig because i do see how that may seem annoying and irritating. Sorry.



I fixed the stumble problem btw. Wasn't ANYTHING you guys said.

- Eric

Experiment.Seven

How can you go from this ^ To this:



And to top it all off you didn't even respond to all my responses up there^^^ =/

I'm the childish one who's 16? Yes you have a business and you know it very well but at least i am asessing every aspect and questioning you guys because you're knowledgable. Well mostly everyone on here is until we get someone who has to voice their opinion on things not even pertinent to the discussion. I'm sorry but if you treat everyone you help like this then you have bad "customer service/friendly advice".

Good luck to your business, i know you'll rake in the cash, maybe even from me one day. Excuse me while i go wipe off your spit, on my face, when you were being rude to me for no reason whatsoever.

Sterling

I'm quite fed up with you because people here, including myself, have spent a LOT of time trying to help you. But you go off in these ADD tangents about trying "this" or "that" as if we're all just covering our eyes & pissing in the wind, meanwhile you clearly have no idea wtf you're doing. You fail to respect the collective experience of this board.
You say you just want to "learn". If that's true, then go read up on your car / carb / whatever before you go screwing around with it. You don't even know what things are called or the approximate, appropriate terminology to use when describing a problem, and that is clearly indicative of the fact that you have NOT put in any effort to research this on your own.
Your approach to troubleshooting given your limited knowledge combined with your apparent belief that you just may be the only one that's ever had these particular problems is akin to sitting next to your car tossing tools at it; "Nope. That aint it...How 'bout this one...".

Oh well there's proof positive that we clearly all have our heads up our asses. Congratulations. So what was it, Eric, the "secondary fuel bowl" was too full?
Or was it the "primary fuel bowl"?

You need to keep a few things in mind:

Nobody on this board owes you a thing.
Anyone who offers you help you is donating their time.
If you ask for help and then don't follow the advice that was given to you, and then you ask for more help, people are going to get pissed off at you.

You PMed me, and I spent 20 minutes going through the whole thing, listing point by point about a dozen things you needed to check. You never even had the courtesy to respond back to me. That pretty much got us off to a bad start. I extend myself quite a bit regarding Nikki carb help. Ask anybody. But even I have my limits.