Winnipeg85GSL

Ok, I've been thinking too much, and I need your opinions on something.
My uncle blew the engine on his 86 a while ago and it is just sitting. 2nd gens can look real badass and can easily be quicker than my 1st gen if I'm not mistaken. Here's the problem, I have thought about selling my car and then buying his for about 500 dollars.

pros:
-With the money from my car I can rebuild the engine and do some serious mods.

-Easier to find parts

Cons:

-Needs paint ehaust and engine to be nice

-Burgandy interior ( compared to my Grey/Black)

-Rustier than my car



I don't know what to do. 1st gens are rarer then 2nd's where i live and 1st gens look really cool. Im dyin here . . . input needed.

mar3

iTrader: (8)

To me, the 2ndgens have always looked like a poor man's Porsche. The 1stgen is unique in styling (though somewhat reminiscent of a Triumph TR8..) but the 2ndgen is a blatant Japanese copy of the 928/944 cars...

jimmyv13

First of all, are you POSITIVE that the motor is blown? Did he get a comp test? What model is it? Think about the price, I picked mine my 86 base with 158K, which runs pretty good except for a rear wheel bearing, for $150. If you want a 2nd gen, the deals are out there. Oh, I just saw that those are CAN funds, what's that in USD? I don't know the current exchange rate.

Anyway, how bad is the rust? Surface rust, or are body panels just barely hangin' on? Can it easily be fixed?

This is what I went through about two months ago. I wasn't even looking for a 2nd gen, but I couldn't pass it up..... even if the motor was ****, I still would have bought it. The tires alone are worth more than $150.

2nd gens have a lot more potential than 1st gens. They have more HP's from the factory, but most ppl say they aren't as much fun to drive. I didn't get to drive mine very much b4 I decided the rear end hum needed some attention, but I can say that the stock 2nd gen with 158K miles is faster than my 85 with a SP 12A and my RB full racing exahust. Not even a close race. I'd say go for it, but it's your decision in the end. I wanted to sell my 1st gen as soon as I got my 2nd gen, but it really hard to part with it. If the right price comes along for my 1st gen, I'll sell it, but only to a fellow rotorite. The car is nowhere near perfect condition, but I still love it.
Either way, I'll be driving my 2nd gen in the spring and maybe if I get a big income tax check, I'll get a fresh SP for it and be on my way to kickin' ***.

Felix Wankel

I wouldn't bother with an NA second gen. They are slow as **** modded out (I had two). I'm sure my GS could probably take any NA FC

Winnipeg85GSL

Im sure when it came down to it I wouldn't be able to part with my 1st gen . .

PaulFitzwarryne

I agree with Felix, your comment that a Gen 2 is faster than a Gen 1 is inaccurate.

A gen 2 is a heavy gsl-se and is much slower that is why they had to go turbo to keep up.

Take a 12a add a good header and you end up with a better car.

jimmyv13

Well, I'll find out in the spring when I get my 2nd gen out of storage and go against my friend in his 85 -SE.

RXcetera

Hold on Jimmy... you're saying that your stock 86 is faster than your 85 12A streeport with full exhaust?? What are you smokin? A stockport 12A with just headers will rape a NA 2nd gen. Your 85 better be automatic...

As far as which car is better to modify... you'll get much more speed for the $ in any 1st gen (12A or 13B) than in any NA 2nd gen.

WackyRotary

I have a '85 12a bridge. IT can easyly beat my '88N/A with headers/straight pipe, adjustble 6port opening points, intake air filter up to 60,70,80,90,100. After 100, I think it comes down to aerodynamics some. First gens are aero dynamic for their time, but 2nd gens seem to be much better and very stable above 110 from how easy mine drives up ther. Just bridgeport your 12a and get a holley or weber, and headers, light flywheel if enough money and you'll enjoy it.

RXcetera

Stock NA 2nd gens dont have much top speed... 120mph is about as fast as I've ever been able to go in one. Unlike 1st gens though... it still felt good at that speed... you stop acclerating because the car wont go any faster, not because it feels like your car is getting ready for take off .

SlithyTove

A stock N/A 2nd gen is considerably faster than a 12a first gen. Your adding about 300 bounds and 40% more horsepower. It would take a lot of modding on a 1st gen to get it up to 2nd gen speed. In good working condition a 12A should be about 2 sec behind a 2nd gen on the 0-60 and the top speed on a 2nd gen should be about 15 mph higher. Fresh off the assembly line they also hold higher skidpad numbers.

That said, 1st gens are more unique and they are certainly as much fun to drive as a 2nd gen (more IMO), as speed is not always the most important factor in car fun.

Winnipeg: If you like your 1st gen and it runs well I sure wouldn't sell it to fix up a sick 2nd gen. My $.02.

RXcetera

Again, I disagree. If "a lot of modding" on a first gen means headers, then by all means you're right... that's all it takes for a 12A 1st gen to beat a 2nd gen NA.

A buddy of mine has a healthy '91 NA 2nd gen with Racing beat header, presilencer and modified 6 port and that car is slower than any headered 12A 1st gen. There's no way he can keep up with any of us 1st gen guys on the highway. This is echoed by the many RX-7 meets we have in TO durring the summer, where the 1st and 3rd gen guys routinely "wait" for the 2nd gens to catch up.

Dont get me wrong though, I like 2nd gens and when it comes to handling, a stock 2nd gen is light years ahead of a 1st gen... but in a straight line, the 1st gen has it beat. No contest.

SlithyTove

It still doesn't track to me. I don't like modding cars particularly so I don't know a lot about it, but it doesn't seem like headers could shave 2+ seconds off a zero to sixty. How big of an HP gain are you getting off that? A base 2nd gen (stock) is even slightly faster than an -SE.

I suppose it is possible that it is simply easier to keep 1st gens in prime condition than 2nd gens, creating the discrepancy, or perhaps first gens simply get much higher benefit from mods.

jimmyv13

My 85 is SLOW. I have no idea why, it just is. I keep a regular maintenance schedule... comp is good, fluids changed, NGK plugs, K&N filter, but I can't beat anything on the road. My only concern that the engine builder that built my motor, Hayes Rotary, didn't port it at all. I questioned them about it when I broke the motor in and there was nothing to be surprised about, but they told me it was ported. I was waiting for a big gain over stock, but very little, if any. I have been told that the stock carb is not enough for a SP and exhaust, but I'm not prepared to drop $700 on a carb to gain 15RWHP, it's just not worth it to me.

RXcetera

Your last point is key. Replacing the exhaust manifold and cat for a header and presilencer will yeild 20-30hp on a 12A first gen. The same mod on a NA 2nd gen does not appear to do much in my experience.

SlithyTove

Ahaha. I believe it with an easy 20-30 hp gain on a 12A. With the weight difference that shoots them right into 2nd gen speeds +.

That's an enormous percent gain for something so comparatively simple.

RXcetera

Slithy, pretty hard to beleive huh? There's nothing like putting headers on a 1st gen for the first time... it's like you're driving a whole new car.

Jimmy, if I go by the info in your sig, your car with a streeport should be putting out at least 150hp. That's with a stock jetted carb. Optimizing your jetting and enlarging your carb could get you another 20-30hp. Let me tell you, a 1st gen with 180hp will obliterate many cars. I'd be checking your engine to see if it is truly ported (take the mani off and us a flashlight and you fingers ). Also I'd be sending your carb off to get it enlarged if you cant afford a replacement. These 2 things are probably not your only problems though, because even with a stockport and the mods you have, your car should be faster than you claim it to be.

jimmyv13

How big should the exhaust ports be?

I know something is wrong with my car. It should be faster, way faster. I've spent too much money on it to get beat by V6 Mustangs and Camaros.

Any other suggestions?

As you can tell by my sig, my car is up for sale....that's how dissapointed in it I am. I've had it since '95 and I got the "port" in 98. I do not want to sell it, but if that's all I get for a SP 12A, then I need something else.

Felix Wankel

With just the street port exhaust (everything else stock), my car was faster than V6 Camaros and Mustangs, and it probably only had about 75 psi of compression

RXcetera

Well, you have to stop telling yourself that this is normal... That isnt "all you can get" out of a SP 12A.

You'd want to check your intake ports before checking your exhaust ports. Not all porting jobs involve porting the exhaust ports, allthough if they said they did the exhaust and a quick check reveals they havent, you can be pretty sure the intake ports havent been touched either. Take the intake manifold off and stick your finger down each intake port... there should be no sharp edges and the port itself should feel relatively large as opposed to a stock port.

Dont give up on your car , it's not supposed to be that slow... something is wrong with it... get it fixed and you'll never want to get rid of it .

RXcetera

I'm with Felix... stockports can take care of riffraff like that lol, streetports prowl the streets for V8 Stangs and Camaros.

jimmyv13

The car is in storage... stewing in ATF, so I can take off the carb and manifold. You said the port in the intake should feel relatively large compared to a stock port, but I don't know what a sotck port feels like so I have nothing to compare it to.

RXcetera

Maybe this can help you in determining what it should "feel" like...

http://mazdatrix.com/faq/portintk.htm

I'm sure someone has better pictures to compare stock to street port... anyone?

jimmyv13

That link gave me a good idea of what I'm looking for. Thanks.

peejay

I've never seen any N/A 2nd-gen run in the 15's. The fastest i've seen was something like 16.2 and the guy basically removed EVERYTHING under the hood and was running a straight pipe. Most of them were in the 16.8 range.

My lightly modified SA used to run very low 15's, the same times as a stock T2. And it would have been very little trouble to get it down deep into the 14's if I simply changed the carb to something that didn't suck.

(The only reason the skidpad numbers are higher is because of the crappy tires Mazda put on the 1st-gens... except for the GSL-SE. Put decent tires on a 1st-gen and they stick QUITE well)