RotorMotorDriver

iTrader: (1)

Thats from Racing Beat...Someone please explain this? I thought it was bad to run synthetic in the engines cause it doesnt burn right and leaves too much carbon or something??

~T.J.

1Bad85Rex

I asked this very same question after reading that myself, turns out some people will say anything to make a buck. Bottom line: synthetic IS bad for a rotary engine

nimrodTT

Or so the folklore and conventional line of thought goes. There is however no proof that anyone has ever put forth to support this thought. Most people think synthetics leave deposits in your engine when they burn. Fact is that they burn cleaner than conventional oil, but don't try to tell that to the uneducated masses.

82streetracer

iTrader: (1)

They sell royal purple engine oil. This oil is like 15 bucks a quart. It damn well better work in anything. Maybe it works well in rotarys.

genrex

I wouldn't put much stock in Racing Beat's opinion, since they may be biased on this. As you know, most of us use a quality non-synthetic motor oil, and are very satisfied.

I have a Racing Beat flywheel, but I don't agree with everything they post on their website.. they are a business, after all. Maybe they're trying to increase sales to the bucks-up hard-core racers?

MIKE-P-28

iTrader: (1)

I think the reason syntheic is said to be bad in a rotary is because it BURNS oil on purpose, synthetic oil DOES NOT like to be burned. W/O the OMP, i dont see a problem with it. Im gonna use it in mine

RotorMotorDriver

iTrader: (1)

Good point Mike.

~T.J.

Northern 7

iTrader: (3)

I think it's also important to point out that Mazda does not recommend synthetics in their engines. I'll be the first to admit I'm no expert but sooner or later you have to believe someone - why not Mazda?? Why chance it for the 2 HP racing beat claims (that's their pitch, right - there's no mention of it offering better protection)? Royal Purple is very expensive and I've always believed you need to change your oil regularly, synthetic or not (it still gets dirty) - at $60 or $70 a change, no thanks. Change your oil often and use a good quality grade and you engine will last longer than the rest of the car - there's testimony to that on this forum

RotorMotorDriver

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, I figured as much, and I only use conventional oil, no synthetic. I just thought it to be odd that a reputal company such as RB to say that synthetic was ok to run in the engine when most of us know that its not the best thing to put in there...And Northern, youre right, for such a small amount of power, I see no point.

~T.J.

PS - I was in that section looking for tranny fluid, anyone know where I can get Redline or Royal Purple tranny fluid cheap?

Spinner-D(eluxe)

you mean synthetic oil doesn't have plastic in it? damm maybe it does burn ok then.

Thats kind of a joke if you didn't get it.

I'm running AMSOIL 15W40 synthetic right now, and AMSOIL oil filters. I am going to run it until this engine goes boom! Then I’m going to take it apart and see for myself what condition the inside of the engine is in. I figure my engine has over 100k on it so why not experiment on it. Know one really knows for sure if synthetic is bad, so I’m doing my own test i guess you could say.

Hayes recommended AMSOIL, as well as Ken at Mazda's and More/Rapid Rotary, and I know Hayes has it reputation, but from what I've been told buy engineer and chemist types, is synthetic is made of the same molecules as organic oil, it's just more even because it's designed to have the same size of molecules making a smoother more consistent oil.

Denny

MMO...In both the oil pan, and in the fuel tank....
How many times do we have to say this?

Denny

Directfreak

iTrader: (2)

Felix's page about Synthetics in Rotaries

BATMAN

Exactly.

It seems that Mazda's issue with synthetics are with:

Older formulas that sucked

and

They are generalizing to an extent

BATMAN

Well, that is true, they have a higher flash point.

That being so, they are also less likely to DETONATE.

I have noticed a slight difference when monitoring the difference with and without synthetics on my knock sensor.

yayarx7

I would not think that synthetic would burn worse than a dino oil. It is not like it has some secret base ingrediant that does not burn. It has much less sulfated ash which means it should burn cleaner!

mar3

iTrader: (8)

It takes a lot more heat to burn synthetic which is one of its great selling points...the question is this. Does the rotary's combustion temperatures exceed that point handily or not so that carbon build-up on the seals becomes a moot point?

jmseven

You guys want actual FACTS...well here it is.

All syntactic oils are NOT the same. It all depends on a multiple of possibilities of their own proprietary chemical contents.

Experiments: 3years ago.
1. R100: 13b downdraft Weber carb.
-Used Castrol SynTec 20w50
-Started fine, no hesitation, very smooth idle
-Revs smoother
-Drove under load
-started to bog
-started to misfire
-Pulled plugs, fouled
-Cleaned plugs
-Drained oil, added Castrol 20w-50 (non-syn)
-After driving it for 10 miles, no problems
2. Rx2: stock 12a Nikki carb
-Used Castrol Syntec 10w-30
-Same results as above
3. GSL-SE: stock 13b FI
-Used Castrol Syntec 20W-50
-Same results as above

We found that Castrol adds a type of additive to prevent from volatile breakdown. Simple meaning, it does not burn off easily. They do not state their FLASH POINT or evaporation results. Within the past year, Castrol has reformulated it using Hydro treated chemicals. I am still not too sure of running another experiment. From the conclusions above, do not used Castrol Syntec (1st generation type). Try the new blend that is available at you nearest retailer. Please post complete results.

We will be upgrading the R100 w/ an MSD direct ignition set up soon. I will post results using Mobile 1. (I hope to have this done w/in the next 2-3months)

4. Turbo II
-Kendall GT-1 20W-59
-Very smooth
-no drivability problems
-3000 miles, no plug fouling
-Same burn rate of >20%
-Redline 20w-50
-Very Smooth
-no drivability problems
-3000 miles, no plug fouling
-Burn rate of <40%
-Castrol 20w-50
-This is the regular oil
-Noticed a low burn rate of >10%

I had discussions w/ Dave @ Redline. He is very knowledgeable of rotory engines and results from racing, which is conclusive with mine. Redlines first concern was with carbon build up at the ends of the rotor. Which results in carbon-looking the apex seals. But, they have found that it does happen with other brands.

I will be conducting an experiment w/ the new Mobile 1, 15w-50, on a FD w/ new engine and turbos. They have stated that their flash points are set to burn off completely. I will post the results after 3000 miles.

BATMAN

I have used Redline for 10 years on rotory and with almost 400,000 miles on both cars (86 N/A and 93 FD) with ZERO ill-effects.

if anything I did notice better idle, 1MPG better and little more HP.

Open the engine for rebuild and it was very clean.

Minimal carbon deposits.

RXcetera

Why would Mazda be a good source of information on the subject?? Mazda is in the business of making and selling new cars, not keeping old ones on the road. Do you really think that if Mazda discovered some miracle product that made their rotaries last longer they would tell us about it? And recomend it? No way!

I was told just that by a Mazda rep when I was inquiring about synthetic oil and various additives. Why would Mazda recomend a product that could potentially keep you out of the showroom and the parts counter for a few more years?

Most of the experts agree that some specific brands of synthetics are ok to use in a rotary. I dont use them (because of the extra $ lol), but I'm willing to bet Redline, Amsoil and Royal Purple are some of the best. Of course, many of these experts are in the business of rebuilding engines, so it would be kind of dumb for them to recomend something that could potentialy rob them of some of there business...

So who do you turn to? Your wallet lol. Synthetics probably offer some minimal gains over conventional oil... it's up to you to decide wether or not those gains are worth the extra $.

Spinner-D(eluxe)

Hey jmseven,

have you done any tests with AMSOIL synthetic? I've been running it in my 84 GSL-SE for over 6000 miles with no plug fouling problems.

82mazdarx7

Well with my new rebuilt I think I am going to go ahead and out the synthetic molbil 1 0/30 in it. Thats what Pineapple Racing reccomends. I think that most people have heard that its not good to put synthetic oil in rotary engines and thats what they stick with. They have no proof and they tell others that it not good. Thats just me.

BATMAN

pineapple racing?

wha da?

BATMAN

Yep, it makes plenty of sense.

I heard that Royal Purple is really not all that good like Redline or Amsoil, the 2 originals.

jmseven

Spinner-D.

No. have not tried them. If anyone is interested in AMSOIL, call them directly and get the facts on the flash point and evap spec. I know people have used them in the past but, who knows...

I will recommend everyone to use MAZDASPEED oil, if you can get your hands on it.....have one can left...never going to use it....just for display...HA!!!!!

BATMAN

Mazdaspeed oil is Valvoline relabeled.

j/k