Hadoken

My A/C blows air, but it isn't cold at all, so I'm hoping it just needs recharged, but since it's R-12, it needs to be converted.
I was at Walmart and saw a conversion kit for about $10 with new fittings and stuff. I already have some R-134a coolant for another newer car that has a small leak.

Is that conversion kit all I need, or do I need some way to get the remaining R-12 out (if theres any left) before I put the R-134 in.
Anyone have experience with these? Is the kit REALLY all I need?

hornbm

dude r134a blows man. If you take it to a shop they can still recharge ur r12 it just costs more.

seriously you'll most likely end up with leaks if you go to r134a because the size of the molecules will allow it to slip past the refregerant seals.

If you look at r134a systems you'll see they have about tice as many seals as r12a systems. PLUS, r12 cools way better.

Hadoken

Well I do like my coolant to "blow" as long as it's blowing cold air.

Any estimates on cost of recharging R-12?
I would mind recharging the R-12, but I'm not totally sure it just wouldn't leak out, so I'd rather be able to fill it back again using R-134a.

Also has anyone ever heard of FREEZE-12 coolant?

9d7gst

I have converted many 12 systems with no problems. If the seals leak its because it was leaking before it was converted. In some cases the converted systen would get just as cold as before.

I suggest converting it. It will be way cheaper in the long run. BUT, i dont suggest doing it by the kit. There is a specific amount of freon that goes into the system. Anything under or over will give you problems. Its hard to be perfect just shooting in can after can.

Take it to a shop. I think we convert for $160. That includes sucking out the 12, vaccume the system, putting in 4 oz of 134 oil with dye to detect leaks under a uv light, and to recharge the system with a specific amount of 134a. Believe me, its cold when it leaves.

Hadoken

Well the retarded Ford dealership charged $60 to add in some R-134 with dye in it, then didn't even check to see if it's leaking. So my brothers system has a leak in it, but they didn't look to check after adding the dye, so they charged $60 for a can of R-134 I can get for about $1.70.

Hadoken

Whoohoo! My first double post, I even made it a triple.
This is a milestone folks.

Hadoken

I just don't know if I want to risk blowing some components that cost a ton..

I'd like to hear some opinions on products like FREEZE 12..but I have my doubts about it.
http://www.freeze12.com
http://freeze-12.com

82transam

iTrader: (18)

I had my boss at the gas station convert mine over a year ago and it still blows cold. All we did was drain the remaining r12 (not much) put 134a fittings on it and recharge it. simple

jimmyjoejoe

don't you have to swap over the compressor too? that's what i like about being so close to mexico... nice little day trip and have cheap freon! yay!

kleinke

For those who claim an R12 system filled with R134a will get "just as cold", please provide some details. If you have measured the temperatures before and after, it would be very interesting. You might want to let the SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) and and MACS (Mobile Air Conditioning Society) know about your earth-shattering news as well. For now, I call this B.S.
Converting an R12 system to R134a would simply be spending money to replace a phased-out refrigerant with an inferior and soon-to-be phased-out one. R12 is still available and will cool better than R134a. When R134a is phased out you will just need to convert again. The future replacements for R134a will cool better, but you will probably need to retrofit the entire system. It makes more sense to stay with R12 for now.

Pittdp

I have not had to recharge the system in 5 years, Lucky me. I would also stay with the R12 as long as your system is good, if you ever have any leaks I would then convert.

LongDuck

Interesting that these threads seem to come up just as I'm in the process of finishing something up.

I had my R12 system 'upgraded' to R134a yesterday at the local PEP Boys. For a total of $250, it now blows cold air that is definitely a step up from my 2/55 A/C for the past 3-4 years (2 windows down, 55mph).

The R12 was long-gone, and the tech installed the new caps (hi and lo side), hooked the system up to the 134a machine, drew it to 30psi vacuum where it held the vacuum for about 15 minutes without any leaks - passing their 'shop-test' per the EPA to allow for a recharge. The tech then drew in about 4 oz of "Ester Oil" proported to be compatible with both R12 and R134a systems, followed by 28 oz's of R134a refrigerant. As he was adding it, you could feel the interior temperatures going down until the full volume was in. From there a quick trip around the block confirmed that the A/C now works wonderfully.

I'm happy, not to much money was spent, and the conversion kit nozzles were only $20. The rest was labor, lube, R134a (cheap to replace off the shelf to top-off), and other shop expenses. He also installed a new accumulator/drier as this has a dessicant in it that absorbs any moisture in the system. On an older system, the dessicant is likely absorbed as much as it can, and replacement ensures that you're good for another span of years. $40 for the accumulator/drier.

Money well spent. Got my windows tinted 35% fronts and rear hatch window today and for the first time in years, had to turn the A/C DOWN to keep from freezing - this is in 107degree F Arizona Summertime!

To each their own, but I would have spent over $200 on R12 freon, alone - not to mention the $69 recharge, $40 accumulator/drier, and labor. For the cost, and ease of topping off at $4 for 12oz can, R134a is fitting the bill. YMMV, HTH,

Pittdp

Cool, another Yellow Rx-7 owner.

9d7gst

Well there kind sir..... Looks like your just looking for trouble? First off, Who is going to take a R12 system in perfect working order and convert it to 134 just to see if it gets colder? Temp tests? HA. I use the back of my hand test. If its cold then the A/C is cold.

What....Did you just graduate Lincoln Tech??? Useing all those fancy names.. Im proud of you.

So everyone should keep the R12 because 134 is getting phased out. Just like R12 did????

Please give me some of your experiences with converting 12 systems to 134.

Hadoken

I'm just wondering how often the higher pressure of R-134 makes a old compressor or parts kill over.
Longduck, was your accumulator/drier broke, or did you have to get it replaced before you could convert it?

I don't mind the R-134 being not quite as cold, but it's better than the current breeze blowing through my car when I turn the A/C on.

I don't know if you have Sams Club out there (or if you're a member) but they have the same exact R-134 that Walmart sells except Walmart sells it for $3.97 and they sell it 12 cans for $22.

And another question for you Longduck, about how much did it cost to tint your windows?

Tom

It is absolutely recommended to replace the drier if converting. As long as the other systems are in good working order- you should have no problems. R-134 is adequate for most cooling purposes. May not be as ice cold as r-12, but it will get the job done.

And I don't know about where you guys live, but r-12 is getting very, very difficult to find AND most shops won't even touch it.

Hadoken

Is using R-134 in my RX-7 different from using R-134 in a system meant for R-134?
My brothers car was meant for R-134, but even after leaking out and being recharged, as long as it's full it's still ice cold.

Whats the risk of running the car without changing the drier?

Tom

The receiver-drier, or accumulator needs to have a desiccant that is compatible with R134a refrigerant. It removes moisture from the system. If you cannot remove the moisture from the A/C system, you will run the good chance of killing your compressor, etc.. (Think water on metal here).

Also- the old system has to be evaporated and flushed. In some cases, new hoses and O-rings need to be installed (especially if your A/C has been non-functional for a while). R-12 and R-134a contain lubricants to keep the internals nice and soft. No use = dry rotted hoses and bad O-rings which = LEAKS.

Basically- you can go two routes- Dump 134a into the existing system without any recommended upgrades, get it to the right pressure/amount and you might have A/C for a season, maybe two. This is what my dad used to say was the main cause for phantom leaks in an A/C system (the kind you can't find with dye because it leeches out soooo slowly.

The second route is to evaporate, inspect the hoses and rings for wear, replace if you can..add a new dryer and have a decent running A/C system with less worries.

Hadoken

Sounds like it's gonna cost me around $200 to switch it over, and then be able to refill it myself, or spend arond $200 on R-12, and then pray it doesn't leak or it'll be wasted money.
I don't mind switching to R-134 as long as it doesn't kill my compressor or something that would cost alot to fix...

Tom

The 134 won't kill your compressor.
It all depends on how what condition the rest of the system is in.

Forgot to mention this- I think 134 operates at higher pressure, sooo any old hoses with small leaks will be amplified when switching to 134.

Just check your hoses to see what condition they are in...

Hadoken

Where should I take it to be done?
I know the Mazda place would charge the most, are there some chain places like Midas that would do it? Or should I just take it to a reputable local place?

Tom

Sounds like Longduck had good luck at a local Pep Boys..
But I honestly can't answer that for you. I deal with mostly independant shops (owner operated). In my experience, most of those guys can figure just about anything out.

As far as inspecting / replacing hoses- I'm sure you can do that (even replace O-rings).

85rotarypower

If your all paying $200 to have your system converted, your really getting fucked up the ***. I worked in a small shop for 5 months. I actually finished just a couple weeks ago. We did TONS of A?C work. We converted a few R12 systems to R134a. You don't have to change any fittings or anything like that. Its just recomended. All we did was add a couple ounces of synthetic oil and filled the system. Costs lots less and everyone is happy. My supervisor has done lots of conversions through the years and has never had anyone come back.

BTW, you can't get R12 anymore. It is technically illegal to sell it in Canada. I'm not sure about the US though.

tjgosurf

I ran a post about a month ago about that $30 kit from walmart. Its worked great, I would recommend getting tinted windows too, that helps alot more than you can imagine, even if its just the rear hatch. Just make sure you use those caps that came with it, they are very helpful on keeping that stuff in.

BonsaiRX7

I converted my FC system, it was a terrible idea. Cooled not nearly as well, went back to R12. It cost me $80 for a recharge, r12 is amazing