GSL-SE - Starts poorly but runs great - Help
05-09-05, 11:03 AM
#1
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GSL-SE - Starts poorly but runs great - Help
I know that this may be a repeat, but I wanted to ensure that I have my specific issue addressed.
I have an 84 SE with just under 100k miles. The starting issue has gotten progressively worse over that last 2 years.
What happens is that I try to start it, and sometimes it will start and sometimes it won't. When it does start, many times it seems to sputter for a few seconds (during which time if I rev it a bit it seems to clear itself) and then it runs fine. Once it is running, the engine works great. I have lots of power, no smoke, no coolant loss, no hestitation in the ignition firing right up to and past 7000rpm. But sometimes the sputter is too much and it won't start. After that I can finally get it started by flooring it and cranking the starter. Eventually it catches, tons of smoke and then it clears and runs fine.
I have replaced the plugs, cap, wires and rotor button. The engine idles fine and again, no smoke. I have adjusted the TPS to the proper setting.
It seems to be flooding, or something is keeping it from catching when I try to start. I may go days without an issue, or it might happen twice in a row. If I drive to a store and shut off, when I return I may get the same problem, so it isn't isolated to cold starts.
It seems to be ignition related and the only thoughts I have are that the coils are weak or the air gap in the distributor is too large.
Any thoughts? Is this an ignition problem or the signs of a bigger issue? The engine is untouched and the only mods are a header and K&N filter. It dynoed at 140whp and 122lb-ft w torque.
Unfortunately there are no mechanics around here that know anything about an SE, let alone the rotary engine.
Thanks in advance
Steve
1984 GSL-SE
1986 Jaguar Sovereign
http://www.accesswave.ca/~cvtenginee...eswebpage.html
I have an 84 SE with just under 100k miles. The starting issue has gotten progressively worse over that last 2 years.
What happens is that I try to start it, and sometimes it will start and sometimes it won't. When it does start, many times it seems to sputter for a few seconds (during which time if I rev it a bit it seems to clear itself) and then it runs fine. Once it is running, the engine works great. I have lots of power, no smoke, no coolant loss, no hestitation in the ignition firing right up to and past 7000rpm. But sometimes the sputter is too much and it won't start. After that I can finally get it started by flooring it and cranking the starter. Eventually it catches, tons of smoke and then it clears and runs fine.
I have replaced the plugs, cap, wires and rotor button. The engine idles fine and again, no smoke. I have adjusted the TPS to the proper setting.
It seems to be flooding, or something is keeping it from catching when I try to start. I may go days without an issue, or it might happen twice in a row. If I drive to a store and shut off, when I return I may get the same problem, so it isn't isolated to cold starts.
It seems to be ignition related and the only thoughts I have are that the coils are weak or the air gap in the distributor is too large.
Any thoughts? Is this an ignition problem or the signs of a bigger issue? The engine is untouched and the only mods are a header and K&N filter. It dynoed at 140whp and 122lb-ft w torque.
Unfortunately there are no mechanics around here that know anything about an SE, let alone the rotary engine.
Thanks in advance
Steve
1984 GSL-SE
1986 Jaguar Sovereign
http://www.accesswave.ca/~cvtenginee...eswebpage.html
05-09-05, 01:51 PM
#2
84SE-EGI helpy-helperton
Actually, it sounds to me like it's a problem with the hot-start assist system, which is the EFI ability to take in measurements of intake air temp sensors (2; 1 at the AFM, 1 at the DEI chamber), and from the differential, the ECU decides to lean the mixture to help with hot-start. If either of these sensors are not functioning correctly, they may not be triggering the hot-start assist loop in the ECU, and you'd get an overly rich mixture, possibly leading to flooding, as you've described.
The other sensor that I would check is the coolant temp sensor at the back of the water pump. This sensor is also used by the ECU to determine whether the engine is warm. It is usually tied into when the ECU turns off the 'choke' or cold-start cycle, but other posters here have had problems with low fuel mileage, flooding on startup, and popping/backfiring from a coolant temp sensor that's returning a 'cold' signal all the time (disconnected makes the engine think it's cold).
Have a look at your wiring harness to these sensors and see if it may be an intermittent short. Also, check the plastic plug (green) going to the WP coolant temp sensor - sometimes these crack with age and the plug will come loose or unlatched, thereby returning a 'cold' condition to the ECU.
Let us know what you find; there may be more to troubleshoot to assist,
FYI - standard 'start' cycle for an EFI SE is 1) pedal to floor and then off COMPLETELY, 2) turn key to 'start', 3) crank until engine fires. If you hold the pedal to the floor, the ECU is going to attempt to add fuel once the engine catches, which may induce flooding. The 'Fast Idle Cam' gets reset when you push the pedal down prior to start - that's all the TB airflow you need, otherwise you risk flooding. The car is smart enough to take care of that for you...
The other sensor that I would check is the coolant temp sensor at the back of the water pump. This sensor is also used by the ECU to determine whether the engine is warm. It is usually tied into when the ECU turns off the 'choke' or cold-start cycle, but other posters here have had problems with low fuel mileage, flooding on startup, and popping/backfiring from a coolant temp sensor that's returning a 'cold' signal all the time (disconnected makes the engine think it's cold).
Have a look at your wiring harness to these sensors and see if it may be an intermittent short. Also, check the plastic plug (green) going to the WP coolant temp sensor - sometimes these crack with age and the plug will come loose or unlatched, thereby returning a 'cold' condition to the ECU.
Let us know what you find; there may be more to troubleshoot to assist,
FYI - standard 'start' cycle for an EFI SE is 1) pedal to floor and then off COMPLETELY, 2) turn key to 'start', 3) crank until engine fires. If you hold the pedal to the floor, the ECU is going to attempt to add fuel once the engine catches, which may induce flooding. The 'Fast Idle Cam' gets reset when you push the pedal down prior to start - that's all the TB airflow you need, otherwise you risk flooding. The car is smart enough to take care of that for you...
Last edited by LongDuck; 05-09-05 at 01:57 PM.
05-09-05, 02:11 PM
#3
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Originally Posted by Corgi Steve
I know that this may be a repeat, but I wanted to ensure that I have my specific issue addressed.
I have an 84 SE with just under 100k miles. The starting issue has gotten progressively worse over that last 2 years.
What happens is that I try to start it, and sometimes it will start and sometimes it won't. When it does start, many times it seems to sputter for a few seconds (during which time if I rev it a bit it seems to clear itself) and then it runs fine. Once it is running, the engine works great. I have lots of power, no smoke, no coolant loss, no hestitation in the ignition firing right up to and past 7000rpm. But sometimes the sputter is too much and it won't start. After that I can finally get it started by flooring it and cranking the starter. Eventually it catches, tons of smoke and then it clears and runs fine.
I have replaced the plugs, cap, wires and rotor button. The engine idles fine and again, no smoke. I have adjusted the TPS to the proper setting.
It seems to be flooding, or something is keeping it from catching when I try to start. I may go days without an issue, or it might happen twice in a row. If I drive to a store and shut off, when I return I may get the same problem, so it isn't isolated to cold starts.
It seems to be ignition related and the only thoughts I have are that the coils are weak or the air gap in the distributor is too large.
Any thoughts? Is this an ignition problem or the signs of a bigger issue? The engine is untouched and the only mods are a header and K&N filter. It dynoed at 140whp and 122lb-ft w torque.
Unfortunately there are no mechanics around here that know anything about an SE, let alone the rotary engine.
Thanks in advance
Steve
1984 GSL-SE
1986 Jaguar Sovereign
http://www.accesswave.ca/~cvtenginee...eswebpage.html
I have an 84 SE with just under 100k miles. The starting issue has gotten progressively worse over that last 2 years.
What happens is that I try to start it, and sometimes it will start and sometimes it won't. When it does start, many times it seems to sputter for a few seconds (during which time if I rev it a bit it seems to clear itself) and then it runs fine. Once it is running, the engine works great. I have lots of power, no smoke, no coolant loss, no hestitation in the ignition firing right up to and past 7000rpm. But sometimes the sputter is too much and it won't start. After that I can finally get it started by flooring it and cranking the starter. Eventually it catches, tons of smoke and then it clears and runs fine.
I have replaced the plugs, cap, wires and rotor button. The engine idles fine and again, no smoke. I have adjusted the TPS to the proper setting.
It seems to be flooding, or something is keeping it from catching when I try to start. I may go days without an issue, or it might happen twice in a row. If I drive to a store and shut off, when I return I may get the same problem, so it isn't isolated to cold starts.
It seems to be ignition related and the only thoughts I have are that the coils are weak or the air gap in the distributor is too large.
Any thoughts? Is this an ignition problem or the signs of a bigger issue? The engine is untouched and the only mods are a header and K&N filter. It dynoed at 140whp and 122lb-ft w torque.
Unfortunately there are no mechanics around here that know anything about an SE, let alone the rotary engine.
Thanks in advance
Steve
1984 GSL-SE
1986 Jaguar Sovereign
http://www.accesswave.ca/~cvtenginee...eswebpage.html
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05-11-05, 01:57 PM
#4
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Working much better now that I have cleaned the Air temp connections and dperess the throttle before attempting to start. Also am cleaning the injectors as apparently that can be a trouble point. Thanks to the doc for the help.
Steve
Steve
05-11-05, 01:58 PM
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Working much better now that I have cleaned the Air temp connections and depress the throttle before attempting to start. Also am cleaning the injectors as apparently that can be a trouble point. Thanks to the doc for the help.
Steve
Steve
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