GSL-SE Flooding badly
06-20-05, 05:44 PM
#1
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GSL-SE Flooding badly
My 84 GSL-SE is flooded and it wont start. I tried un plugging the fuel pump and cranking it to clear it out, it actually starts and runs for a second when I do this. As soon as I plug in the fuel pump and crank it, the sucker floods again.
I recently installed direct fire on the car, but it had been running fine for 3 weeks since I did that, so I dont think that is related.
Also, and im sure this is related to the problem, if the car sits for a few hours it floods. It has been doing that for more than a month now. When it used to do this, it would still start, but run very choppy and smell like gas for a little while.
I have no idea why its doing this, so I am open to suggestions.
I recently installed direct fire on the car, but it had been running fine for 3 weeks since I did that, so I dont think that is related.
Also, and im sure this is related to the problem, if the car sits for a few hours it floods. It has been doing that for more than a month now. When it used to do this, it would still start, but run very choppy and smell like gas for a little while.
I have no idea why its doing this, so I am open to suggestions.
Last edited by Lotus00; 06-20-05 at 06:11 PM.
06-20-05, 06:22 PM
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Well do you have any suggestions for what I should start replacing? The whole fuel system is 20 years old (except for the fuel filter, replaced last week)
I am thinking about throwing in a new fuel pressure regulator to see if that helps, but I think the injectors may be leaking too.
I am thinking about throwing in a new fuel pressure regulator to see if that helps, but I think the injectors may be leaking too.
06-20-05, 07:08 PM
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Well,
I don't know about you, but I have to floor it to get mine started for some reason, if I don't then it will sit there and ACT like its about to start but not actually start.
I've repalced the fuel filter on mine too! The spark plugs have been fouled out many times on my car (two sets) due to all the flooding and the wires aren't so hot.
I took out my injectors, they didnt look so hot but the inside of them didnt look so bad at all so we just put them back in the car, they could be bad. I didn't want to just go out and buy $100 worth of injectors just to 'test it out'.
- Tech
I don't know about you, but I have to floor it to get mine started for some reason, if I don't then it will sit there and ACT like its about to start but not actually start.
I've repalced the fuel filter on mine too! The spark plugs have been fouled out many times on my car (two sets) due to all the flooding and the wires aren't so hot.
I took out my injectors, they didnt look so hot but the inside of them didnt look so bad at all so we just put them back in the car, they could be bad. I didn't want to just go out and buy $100 worth of injectors just to 'test it out'.
- Tech
06-20-05, 08:46 PM
#5
many factors involved here
- how many miles?
- always kept up w/ daily maintenance and check ups, or no?
- previous accounts of it flooding?
- how sure are you that the previous owner either took good care or cared less about the motor?
- ignition all correct? get a multimeter for continuity
i've kept saying this, but i'll say it again. a motor that constantly floods is one of the signs of needing a new motor or just get the current motor rebuild.
we can know this through a quick diagnostic: before the motor flooded, were you already having a hard time starting the car? or better yet, how many milliseconds/seconds did you have to wait before the car actually started? if motor starts up within less than .5 sec, you still have good compression. if it takes longer, then you better save your money for the next rebuild/motor.
- how many miles?
- always kept up w/ daily maintenance and check ups, or no?
- previous accounts of it flooding?
- how sure are you that the previous owner either took good care or cared less about the motor?
- ignition all correct? get a multimeter for continuity
i've kept saying this, but i'll say it again. a motor that constantly floods is one of the signs of needing a new motor or just get the current motor rebuild.
we can know this through a quick diagnostic: before the motor flooded, were you already having a hard time starting the car? or better yet, how many milliseconds/seconds did you have to wait before the car actually started? if motor starts up within less than .5 sec, you still have good compression. if it takes longer, then you better save your money for the next rebuild/motor.
06-20-05, 11:51 PM
#7
Flooding
Everyone goes thru this one time or another on a Se.
All the basics need to be covered as i have covered them before. I have not ever not cured this problem by what i am about to post as i have other times.
1). The first thing i check for is the operation of the AFM. This means that you turn the key to the on posistion, do not crank and see if you hear the fuel pump coming on. Go back to the
pump to listen. If it is on the AFM is bad and flooding the chambers before you start to crank.
Should only come on when you start to crank.
2). If this is not the problem then when shutting the car off for the evening disconnect the fuel inlet hose to the fuel rail so the fuel system pressure is gone. Take a rag a cover it as you take the hose off because it will spray everywhere. This is to release the fuel system pressure and not allow any fuel to the injectors in case they are leaking. Reconnect the hose and wait till next morning to crank. You can also do this during the day also if you let your car sit for a long period of time.
3) They (injectors could also have avery poor spray pattern and causing incomplete combustion. By running a can of BG's 44k thru the system with about a 1/4 tank will almost everytime clean up the injectors. Check with your dealerships and local garages to see if they carry the product.
4)Compression test is a must, if you have low compression in one of the chambers you will not fire properly, period. Might want to do this first but clean out your chambers from excessive fuel first.
5). Make sure you have good spark going to both trailing and especially leading sides. Make sure that you don't have a intermittent problem with your leading ignitor. Swap them just to make sure.
6). Make sure their is no corroison on the coils or ignition wires.
7). The coolant temp sensor is sometimes a factor. Mainly when it is warmer outside and it floods. If it has failed it usually will give a reading to the ecu telling it that the coolant temp is extremley cold telling the system to give lots of fuel. If it is hot outside or the engine is at operating temp it will just flood.
8). If after doing all this and you still have not fixed it. Fly me out and i will take care of it
All the basics need to be covered as i have covered them before. I have not ever not cured this problem by what i am about to post as i have other times.
1). The first thing i check for is the operation of the AFM. This means that you turn the key to the on posistion, do not crank and see if you hear the fuel pump coming on. Go back to the
pump to listen. If it is on the AFM is bad and flooding the chambers before you start to crank.
Should only come on when you start to crank.
2). If this is not the problem then when shutting the car off for the evening disconnect the fuel inlet hose to the fuel rail so the fuel system pressure is gone. Take a rag a cover it as you take the hose off because it will spray everywhere. This is to release the fuel system pressure and not allow any fuel to the injectors in case they are leaking. Reconnect the hose and wait till next morning to crank. You can also do this during the day also if you let your car sit for a long period of time.
3) They (injectors could also have avery poor spray pattern and causing incomplete combustion. By running a can of BG's 44k thru the system with about a 1/4 tank will almost everytime clean up the injectors. Check with your dealerships and local garages to see if they carry the product.
4)Compression test is a must, if you have low compression in one of the chambers you will not fire properly, period. Might want to do this first but clean out your chambers from excessive fuel first.
5). Make sure you have good spark going to both trailing and especially leading sides. Make sure that you don't have a intermittent problem with your leading ignitor. Swap them just to make sure.
6). Make sure their is no corroison on the coils or ignition wires.
7). The coolant temp sensor is sometimes a factor. Mainly when it is warmer outside and it floods. If it has failed it usually will give a reading to the ecu telling it that the coolant temp is extremley cold telling the system to give lots of fuel. If it is hot outside or the engine is at operating temp it will just flood.
8). If after doing all this and you still have not fixed it. Fly me out and i will take care of it
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06-21-05, 09:29 PM
#8
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Well,
I've figured out if I leave the plugs out over night it starts PERFECTLY the next morning, so I'm thinking mine has to do with an injector allowing gas to come back down into the chamber.
- Tech
I've figured out if I leave the plugs out over night it starts PERFECTLY the next morning, so I'm thinking mine has to do with an injector allowing gas to come back down into the chamber.
- Tech
06-21-05, 11:44 PM
#9
Cheap, easy solution to common problem
This is no mystery - it is a very common problem with injected rotaries with a lot of miles - your fuel injectors are not shutting off. When you shut down the engine, the fuel pressure trapped in the fuel lines is bleeding into the chamber and causing flooding.
The first step is get your injectors rebuilt or replaced with new ones. If that does not completely solve the problem, or if you are too cheap, there is another way, which I have done on two cars. Put a hidden switch in the car, which interrupts the power to the fuel pump. I put mine just under the edge of the plastic console below the shifter. The power goes through the wire bundle under the carpet in the left rocker area, just inside the driver's door. Cut that and splice in the switch wiring.
Instead of turning off the ignition, shut off this switch, let the engine die from lack of fuel, should only be about 2-3 seconds, THEN turn off the ignition. In addition to solving the flooding problem, this makes a good poor man's security system.
The first step is get your injectors rebuilt or replaced with new ones. If that does not completely solve the problem, or if you are too cheap, there is another way, which I have done on two cars. Put a hidden switch in the car, which interrupts the power to the fuel pump. I put mine just under the edge of the plastic console below the shifter. The power goes through the wire bundle under the carpet in the left rocker area, just inside the driver's door. Cut that and splice in the switch wiring.
Instead of turning off the ignition, shut off this switch, let the engine die from lack of fuel, should only be about 2-3 seconds, THEN turn off the ignition. In addition to solving the flooding problem, this makes a good poor man's security system.
06-22-05, 12:36 AM
#10
Originally Posted by Tech_Greek
Well,
I've figured out if I leave the plugs out over night it starts PERFECTLY the next morning, so I'm thinking mine has to do with an injector allowing gas to come back down into the chamber.
- Tech
I've figured out if I leave the plugs out over night it starts PERFECTLY the next morning, so I'm thinking mine has to do with an injector allowing gas to come back down into the chamber.
- Tech
06-22-05, 12:41 AM
#11
Originally Posted by stilettoman
This is no mystery - it is a very common problem with injected rotaries with a lot of miles - your fuel injectors are not shutting off. When you shut down the engine, the fuel pressure trapped in the fuel lines is bleeding into the chamber and causing flooding.
The first step is get your injectors rebuilt or replaced with new ones. If that does not completely solve the problem, or if you are too cheap, there is another way, which I have done on two cars. Put a hidden switch in the car, which interrupts the power to the fuel pump. I put mine just under the edge of the plastic console below the shifter. The power goes through the wire bundle under the carpet in the left rocker area, just inside the driver's door. Cut that and splice in the switch wiring.
Instead of turning off the ignition, shut off this switch, let the engine die from lack of fuel, should only be about 2-3 seconds, THEN turn off the ignition. In addition to solving the flooding problem, this makes a good poor man's security system.
The first step is get your injectors rebuilt or replaced with new ones. If that does not completely solve the problem, or if you are too cheap, there is another way, which I have done on two cars. Put a hidden switch in the car, which interrupts the power to the fuel pump. I put mine just under the edge of the plastic console below the shifter. The power goes through the wire bundle under the carpet in the left rocker area, just inside the driver's door. Cut that and splice in the switch wiring.
Instead of turning off the ignition, shut off this switch, let the engine die from lack of fuel, should only be about 2-3 seconds, THEN turn off the ignition. In addition to solving the flooding problem, this makes a good poor man's security system.
If the injectors are leaking than more than likely they have a bad spray pattern also. Which means even worse fuel economy and loss of power. Also with the continuous flooding issue
there goes the life of the motor. So i say no cheapies here fix the problem because it will be cheaper in the long run.
06-22-05, 02:39 AM
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When I put in the new fuel pressure regulator I ordered today, I will clean up the injectors as much as possible. Is it possible that one injector got stuck open? My car wont even start right now because it floods the second the fuel pump turns on.
06-22-05, 12:02 PM
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Same problem as me again Lotus, the only way I've found is to unplug the hose over night, remove the plugs, get up in the morning replace and leave the fuel pump plug connector unplugged turn it over a few times and then plug it in and it starts.
06-22-05, 12:24 PM
#14
Originally Posted by rx7doctor
Tech, i told you over and over about the injectors and getting them cleaned and tested. But do you listen to me, No. It's ok though just keep getting up every morning and reinstalling your plugs
06-22-05, 01:17 PM
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Tech_Greek makes me ashamed to be Greek myself. quit being a cheapass and fix your flooding problem the RIGHT way or get a different car and DONT MESS WITH IT, seems like you arent that competent at this ****.
ive managed to keep my 3 rx-7's alive and running for 4 years now without my parents even knowing i have them, and i live at home. i learned and did everything the hard way, including a 12A motor swap i did with a friend and a $30 tool kit from wal-mart that we did in the friggen woods. if you cant figure out a simple flooding problem that is obviously fuel injector based and your not willing to take the time to replace them, but you'll take out the plugs and reinstall them every damn day, you sir are an idiot.
ive managed to keep my 3 rx-7's alive and running for 4 years now without my parents even knowing i have them, and i live at home. i learned and did everything the hard way, including a 12A motor swap i did with a friend and a $30 tool kit from wal-mart that we did in the friggen woods. if you cant figure out a simple flooding problem that is obviously fuel injector based and your not willing to take the time to replace them, but you'll take out the plugs and reinstall them every damn day, you sir are an idiot.
06-22-05, 01:18 PM
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Raris, what the **** is your problem number one...I am a cheap *** forgive me if I don't roll around in momy and daddys money like you.
d0_luck I took out the injectors and they seemed to be firing alright as per what people told me they never told me anything else about the fuel leak down.
- Tech
d0_luck I took out the injectors and they seemed to be firing alright as per what people told me they never told me anything else about the fuel leak down.
- Tech
06-22-05, 01:51 PM
#17
dude just wait till you get your FPR in. then keep trouble shooting from there. that could be a main problem, mine was shot and i was running twice the normal pressure. smoke at startup yada yada
06-22-05, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Tech_Greek
Raris, what the **** is your problem number one...I am a cheap *** forgive me if I don't roll around in momy and daddys money like you.
d0_luck I took out the injectors and they seemed to be firing alright as per what people told me they never told me anything else about the fuel leak down.
- Tech
d0_luck I took out the injectors and they seemed to be firing alright as per what people told me they never told me anything else about the fuel leak down.
- Tech
theres nothing wrong with being a cheap-***, hell ive completely restored one RX-7 for less than $2,000 including paint and a rebuilt 12A; you just have to be a smart cheap-***.
06-22-05, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by RarisRX-7
lol you malaka i have my own company; i dont live with or communicate with my parents since january. as far as you RX-7 problem perhaps you should talk to a mechanic or call a rotary mechanic; here in PA there are tons of older mechanics who have or have had rx-7's, CA must have some people near you with the know-how. im not on here a lot, im usually on an Acura RSX forum or the STi section of NASIOC
theres nothing wrong with being a cheap-***, hell ive completely restored one RX-7 for less than $2,000 including paint and a rebuilt 12A; you just have to be a smart cheap-***.
theres nothing wrong with being a cheap-***, hell ive completely restored one RX-7 for less than $2,000 including paint and a rebuilt 12A; you just have to be a smart cheap-***.
My dad took the fuel hose off...fuel dribbled out after it sitting up over night...shouldnt there still be pressure in the line?
- Tech
06-22-05, 02:10 PM
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not after a whole night sitting, try doing a fuel pump cutoff; i have installed them in both of my GSL-SE's and in my GS as well, never had a flooding problem since. total cost; $5 bux each, 12' of 12gauge wire and a 30 amp 12 volt on/off switch
06-22-05, 04:29 PM
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not the fuel pump switch...heres an explanation of what i mean
go to wal mart and buy 12' of 12 gauge insulated wire, maybe $3 also buy some electrical tape $1 and a 12 volt 30 amp on/off switch from the automotive section $3 and an in line fuse holder.
behind the drivers seat there is a storage box (duh) take it out. there is a clarion amp and a pair of wires leading through the body of the car to the undercarriage. this is the power and ground for the fuel pump itself. cut both the wires and check out a shop manual for which is power and which is ground (wires i think are black and blue and solid black) splice 6' of wire from the 'on' terminal on the switch to the fuel pump wire and the other end of the hot wire to the other terminal on the switch so that when you turn the switch to 'off' the fuel pump is getting no power at all.
with the pump OFF start to turn the motor, while it is cranking (about 1/2 sec into it) flick the switch so the pump gets juice, and when you go to shut the car off turn off the fuel pump and let the engine die by itself (2-3 seconds). i installed my switches by the ignition in the dash so i can flick it with my right hand while im cranking, but you can have it sitting pretty much anywhere as long as you cover all terminal and wire contacts with electrical tape. its pretty simple, and keeps all 3 of my FB's (even the carbureted one) starting and running with no flooding problems
go to wal mart and buy 12' of 12 gauge insulated wire, maybe $3 also buy some electrical tape $1 and a 12 volt 30 amp on/off switch from the automotive section $3 and an in line fuse holder.
behind the drivers seat there is a storage box (duh) take it out. there is a clarion amp and a pair of wires leading through the body of the car to the undercarriage. this is the power and ground for the fuel pump itself. cut both the wires and check out a shop manual for which is power and which is ground (wires i think are black and blue and solid black) splice 6' of wire from the 'on' terminal on the switch to the fuel pump wire and the other end of the hot wire to the other terminal on the switch so that when you turn the switch to 'off' the fuel pump is getting no power at all.
with the pump OFF start to turn the motor, while it is cranking (about 1/2 sec into it) flick the switch so the pump gets juice, and when you go to shut the car off turn off the fuel pump and let the engine die by itself (2-3 seconds). i installed my switches by the ignition in the dash so i can flick it with my right hand while im cranking, but you can have it sitting pretty much anywhere as long as you cover all terminal and wire contacts with electrical tape. its pretty simple, and keeps all 3 of my FB's (even the carbureted one) starting and running with no flooding problems
06-22-05, 06:56 PM
#23
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That's what I'm saying, there's a two or three prong connector back there that you can unplug and plug in that supposedly disables the fuel pump (the two wires you speak of) but I guess a switch would be easier to just flick on rather than unplug and plug it in.
When you flip the switch off to let the engine die what does this do, deplete all of the fuel out of the hoses or something?
- Tech
When you flip the switch off to let the engine die what does this do, deplete all of the fuel out of the hoses or something?
- Tech
06-22-05, 10:25 PM
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yep, the motor uses up the last of the fuel in the lines and the injectors try to pump fuel, but theres no pressure (normally 40-60 psi in fuel injection) so theres NO WAY the motor can flood again