Tech_Greek

Well,

This is killing me, now every time I go to start my car it doesn’t seem like it fires until about five seconds of it turning and some times I have to hold down the starter and floor it and it barely catches and smokes the hell out of everything before being able to drive off.

After it runs for about two minutes the smoke clears up and I see no more of it until it happens randomly at start, I swear it feels like I'm flooding it out.

My dad just bought an 85 GSL and it has no problems like this, it smokes a little oil puff but that's it but if you hold the gas down on the GSL it does the same thing, won't catch until the fourth or fifth turn and then barely catches.

The fuel pump isn't coming on when the key is set to on, I've tried taking the hose off and fuel comes out but when I go to start it up again, it still smokes at random.

Now, I remember reading somewhere that my coolant o-rings are going out, but I thought only the 12A's had those.

Something’s not right, I can't afford a engine rebuild and it's getting to a point where it's getting embarrassing when I smoke the parking lot out.

- Tech

Kentetsu

Describe the smoke. Does it smell like fuel? Your injectors might be leaking when she's parked. If that's the case, you can either replace them, have them cleaned, or try a fuel cleaner addative (Lucas is good). Hope this helps...

Tech_Greek

It smells like coolant sometimes, most of the time it smells like its fuel.

I've tried;

1) Lucas
2) Red Line

Just for some reason the smoke has been getting worse, when I first got the car it wouldn't smoke at all.

It seems like when I did the MMO all of a sudden smoke started appearing.

I've got oil on the leading spark plug on rotor #2 most of the time when it floods. It's leaking oil from the hoses right now but I don't see how it would get on the threads too.

PS. I thought the removing the hose by the intake manifold test was to make sure the injectors aren't leaking.

- Tech

Kentetsu

The oil that you observed on the spark plug might actually be carbon/fuel which can look a lot like oil. The fuel system stays under pressure while the car is parked, so if your injectors are leaking then the fuel would run down into the intake.

You might try this to see if I'm on the right track; Park the car, then remove the fuel line to relieve the fuel pressure. Put it all back together and when you try to start it next time see if it's any better... Relieving the fuel pressure should help reduce the leakage and flooding. Good luck.

Tech_Greek

Tried that, that was what Long Duck suggested and it still smoked.

Kentetsu

Wow, this is a tough one....

I'm not too familiar with the SE models and their fuel injection systems. I'm wondering what tells the injectors how much gas to shoot in when you are cranking the engine. Could that be where your problem lies? I'm totally shooting in the dark now. Sorry...

Tech_Greek

No Idea :|

Rotor13B

Well, The easiest way to tell if it's coolant or fuel is have you had to add coolant to your radiator often? Is your coolant level sensor hooked up and functioning? And yes you could be leaking coolant via the intake passage ways.

Tech_Greek

Yes,

It's never gotten low low, I just top it off when the car's temp gauge needle starts to get past the 1/4 mark, it never goes above it when I add coolant and water.

Is the sensor on the top? The one on the top looks old and nasty, like it's not working.

- Tech

thekyl

yea the 12a and 13b's both have the coolent O'rings at the intake. Also the big problem is probably is a combination between the coldstart you pushing on teh gas pedel when it dosent fireright up and a small coolent leak I have a 12a and my GS did the exact same thing. the problem is like when you drive the car to school/work and then you park it in the summer/spring it gets hotter and the engine cools but there is a small amount of humid pressure on the inside of the engine and the difference in pressure between the cumbostion chamber and the water jacket is forcing water to seep through the small cracks in the Rotor housings or the O rings in the intake. Best thing to try put your car in the shade or park it in the exact same spot 2 days in a row when the conditions are the same and I bet when you go start it normaly it smokes and if you start it with the coldstart disabled and lightly pushing on the gas once it will smoke tramendosly less. Its a funky system and it is very sensative buy the cold gas that has sat in the intake or the warm gas/water sitting in the bottom of the block. I bet your injectors are slightly leaking under pressure when the car sits then you get in start the car push the gas pedel down and the cold start pulls on the gas and then you end up with WAY to much fuel in the block. Which cause's carbin lock. Now if you can read that and make sense of it then you understand what is wrong. Now that I read it I was rambaling a little bit but that is the jist of the problem or i'm really borad/tired and the cold madacine has finally won and taken over my body. maybe not

Tech_Greek

Wow,

One sentence.

So, let me get this straight, the cold start (I assume the fluid that is injected via the bottle), the problem is I looked at the bottle and the plug to it is unplugged.

The car doesnt smoke while you're driving or at WOT or at idle (unless it's just been started, which will quickly clear in about 15-30 seconds of idiling) so I think the water jacket is fine.

I've figured out if I just tap on the gas pedal once before start up (like mentioned) that it doesnt smoke as bad, if I try to rev it then the smoke storm starts, so if I just let it idle enough to clear the smoke up while its not pouring out then it doesnt smoke when I start to drive it. Sometimes this works, sometimes it doesnt, I really need to get my ignition fixed but I cant figure out how to get the damn rivets off the steering wheel shaft so I can replace it, there's no room to fit a drill either, I have to hold down the black peice left of the column to get it to start, If I dont, it wont start.

- Tech

Tech_Greek

Also,

I forgot to mention, the front (waterhousing?...where the waterpump is) was replaced because the previous owner said a shop did it and you can see the orange sealent all around it.



- Tech

thekyl

Ewww that sucks well you probably still have some minor leakage from the intake happens on all 7's its a shame. But anyways so yea you also probably have a small leak from one of your injectors or the electrical is not making the ignitors fire right never know. Ohhhh and to change your ignition. pull the screws off the right hand side of the ignition and pull the guts out of the iginiton then fallow the wires up the shaft of the stearing collum. disconnect the plug from there. then take the newly acuired one from the junkyard/parts car and connect plug. Then zip tie the wire's to the collum and push the new ignition into the end of the housing and then you dont have to change your keys or anything no drilling. worked out really well for my car I have changed the ignition twice. (first one I bought from junk yard went bad 2 weeks latter ). That should be kind of simple instructions. If anything else just look under the stearing collum and you should see what I'm talking about.

Rotor13B

To give you a little relief, I had a 79 that would smoke all to beat hell sometimes when I first started it. It did turn out to be an intake coolant leak that just progressively got worse as time wore on. I mean it would smoke out the entire driveway so I would just turn it off and wait 5 or 10 minutes and start it again and it would act like nothing ever even happened. I ended up finally fixing it and no more problems.

Tech_Greek

So,

I'm going to go with the intake theory, and while I'm in there clean up the 5th & 6th ports and buy polished sleeves from Pineapple Racing.

I need the following I assume;

http://www.racingbeat.com/resultset....rtNumber=16735
http://www.racingbeat.com/resultset....rtNumber=16734

And that's it?

Oh, the ignition peice that I have to hold down;



Yes, I have pictures of almost anything on the car! :P On the spare steering wheel shaft there's like two rivets that are holding the whole unit down onto the shaft.

- Tech

gsl-se addict

iTrader: (3)

Well, the -SE doesn't use the intake o-rings (just 12A cars and the turbo 13Bs), so this isn't the cause. If you are loosing coolant, it could be an external leak somewhere or the coolant is leaking into the combustion chamber. You may want to look that checking the coolant temp sensor. It is in the back of the water pump housing. It is the main sensor that determine warm-up/starting enrichment. Value of resistance of the sensor are given in the FSM (section 4b).

For the ignition switch, you are having to hold down the black part, right? Well in that case, you just need to replace the switch and not the whole unit. The switch comes out by removing that one screw in the pic.

thekyl

Okay take the top screw out and then cut that black piece of plastic (zip tie) that is all that is holding the electrical part in the whole housing. Then pull on that bundel of wires and there is a plug attached to that unplug there. Then put it back toogether the way you took it apart.

Tech_Greek

Bought a coolant tempature sensor, the engines too hot to install it right now and it's raining!

Tech_Greek

Wow,

I just changed the sensor and burnt the **** out of my finger, damn t-stat.

I started it up after wards and it still smoked, the car's only been sitting up for maybe 30 minutes but I will say this, when I went to take out the old sensor coolant just kept coming out of the hole, I thought the t-stat was supposed to close when you turn off the engine?

- Tech

thekyl

no it closes when the tempurature in the engine reaches a point where the coolent is below the open point of your T-stat. So if you have a 180 T-stat then it will stay open untill your T-stat gets below 180 unless its bad. That might be the problem constantly pushing water into the engine would creat much over pressure and it would probably seap into the block ...... never know i got nothing.

Tech_Greek

That's what I thought...I'm ready to sell the car, it's gotten to a point where it's ridiclous, it takes forever to crank, sometimes it cranks on the first spin, sometimes you have to spin it for like 15 seconds before it fires.

The coils, wires, cap, rotor, plugs are new.

- Tech

thekyl

Humm no idea boss good luck with the teardown at this point ......... yea I would probably have to say its probably the water jacket seals or the fuel injector's.

Tech_Greek

The problem is, this is my daily driver, I thought these car's were supposed to be advanced...:|

- Tech

gsl-se addict

iTrader: (3)

When you crank and it doesn't fire right away, do you notice the tach moving at all? Mine was like this (tach did nothing sometimes when cranking). The trailing ignitor wouldn't always fire when cranking, so it was not getting any fuel. Once it would descided to work, it would then fire. If it is doing this, move the blue spade connector from the (-) of the trailing coil over to the (-) of the leading. This fixed the problem for me.

Tech_Greek

No,

The tach will bounce at like 50 rpms or so up and down until it fires, the tach also bounces when I'm driving down the road (the mph needle bounces) which I suspect because the tranny mounts messed up.

I've got two spades, a white one on the right and a black one on the left on the coils.

- Tech