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TL;DR Success, Harbor Freight Blind Puller Slide Hammer, Item #62601 with slight modifications. 3-4 whacks and done! The draw for me was to get a less expensive tool as I am only doing this once and found it hard to justify the $114 + SH tool from Mazdatrix. They are awesome but it was going to be hard to explain the $$$.
Mini How-To for the FB Pilot Bearing
Here's a detailed description of my $58 pilot bearing removal experience (or $72 if you don't get one the 20% off coupons that rain down on your mail slot every week). The Autozone had the 2 jaw slide hammer one, but it was pretty beat up, someone had already ground it for their job and it looked iffy. So I went to HF with my replacement pilot bearing to see how well it fit on their attachment.
1. Get the HF 62601 bearing puller, https://www.harborfreight.com/slide-...-pc-62601.html
I suppose this shot gives it away, but that's my old pilot bearing on the end of it, just after removal. The tool looks decently built, though a bit rough. The screw that expands the jaws goes deep and lends strength to the assembly. Some of the Amazon/eBay examples had too much cantilever for the jaws and folks had posted shots of various failures.
2. I looked at the end of the expanders and they seemed a bit too tapered, especially compared to the Mazda tool (as shown on the Pineapple Racing site). I figured if they had a shoulder instead of a taper, the jaws could sit more appropriately and would grab the outer race of the PB, rather than sliding past it or just grabbing the inner race and leaving the shell. So I got out the hand file...
And worked the taper down like this (red line) as much as I felt I could get away with
And to make sure I wouldn't interfere with the inside surface of the eccentric shaft, I broke the sharp edge back, indicated by the green line above. So once the tool expands you get a little bit better shoulder for the outer race but the jaws don't extend past the external circumference of the old PB as you draw it out.
You can argue that it would have worked with out this mod, but I'll never know, fortunately. 3 or 4 *solid* whacks later and it was out.
Here's a shot of the eccentric shaft bore, looks pretty clean, but I'll get the rest of the grime out.
Observation: the PB is not an extremely tight fit where the rollers engage the tranny's input shaft. I don't have a lot of experience but both the old and the new one feel about the same, i.e. there's a small bit of play.
There had been questions about the orientation of the PB seal. The rubber seal side goes against the PB facing into the bore rather than being visible looking at it after installation. It's how the factory installed PB seal was oriented on removal.
The Pineapple racing video is good for how to install the PB and seal,
So inside the input shaft cover, I found the remnants of the clearance adjusting shim, 0.006 inches thick and the same diameter as the big roller bearing for the input shaft. Interestingly, there's maybe 3/4 or so of the circumference represented by the fragments. So the rest of it is somewhere, though I can't see how any of it could have gotten into the transmission case. Anyway, from a cursory bit of research, this was responsible for the forward bearing clearance (as I discovered readingthis thread at *************.com. (Edit: Apparently it's not allowed to put in another forum's URL, sorry Mods). That one's and FD, but it's same principle I assume.
I found the section in the FSM that realtes to this (this from an '82 model year) and it seems the thickness of that shim is somewhat related to the thickness of the orange gasket, here's the measurement method:
So, a couple of questions:
1. Can I reuse that gasket on the cover or do you always replace them? If replace, anyone now where to buy that, or stock from which to cut out one? Edit: Doh! Mazdatrix has the gasket
2. Anyone know where to get new shims? Trans shop, Mazda dealer?
Thanks!
Last edited by Toruki; 08-09-18 at 02:41 PM.
Reason: Blown out competing URL, Mazdatrix has the Gasket.
I thought you got front cover gasket when you got trans seals? Suggestion(what i would do)... if the trans was not noisy and the retrieved measured shim is .006-0.15 source the same thickness shim and use oe Mazda front cover gasket which will be same exact thickness as what's on front cover now which will preserve original specification and put it back together.
0.15 shim is Mazda part # 9996-36-315 still a good # and available still from Mazda Dealer. Get busy
Thanks GSL! Got on the horn to a Mazda dealer in CA to confirm parts availability (all closed on east coast this late in the day) and am good. That part number for the .15mm shim was perfect, the parts guy was unable to go back to 83 but because you gave me that number, he was able to search. App it's used in an S2 as well.
For others' reference:
9996-36-315 is for the .15mm/.006in part.
9996-36-330 is for the .3mm/.012in part.
Mods this is worth archiving when its all done. Lots of great info in here for anyone doing whether its the first or hundredth time.
Cool! Well, this seems like a good time to post some progress and then ask some questions.
Latest bits:
- Changed the tranny seals. Rear is super easy to remove and likewise to just gently tap back in. Get a thin edged tool under the seal's return (brown looking circle in the photo), you could even use a thick box cutter blade to get in, and then progress to a drywall tool, like this
Work your way around and as you get a bigger gap, keep the dryall tool flat against the tail housing to protect the aluminum cast, and wedge a slot blade screwdriver in, and work your way around.
The front one was just annoying to remove...there's no way to push it from behind the seal and pulling just shreds it. To remove mine I used a dremel cutoff wheel and *very* carefully cut through the metal ring embedded in the seal.
Shot 1 shows the seal's embedded metal ring with the rubber cut away (this is after removing the seal). That outside edge is about 1/16th and that's your margin of error before you grind into the seal seat.
Shot 2 is after the fact with the newly installed seal but shows the general idea. Tear all of the the rubber away from the inner part, then just go slowly, cutting through the metal. Grab at it with needle nose pliers and pull it inward "peeling" it away and upward from the seat. Swear a lot, cut some more, and it will come out.
Shot 3 shows the old seal after the fight. I guess I won...no damage to the seat. I wonder how the pros do this, because it just took too long my way.
I pressed the new seal in with a 32mm socket and a rubber hammer. Get it started straight in, then whack it in the rest of the way with the socket.
Other little things
- I installed the new main rear seal, and it looks exactly like the old main rear seal, so no photos.
- I went around the oil pan ad loosened/retorqued each of the 10 mm bolts. (excellent advice GSLSEforme!) some were just barely hand tight and there had been some leakage over the years. Simple and, I hope, effective.
- GSLSEforme asked me to check the condition of the heater hose in a previous post. He said:
What condition is heater hose at back of engine under oil filter pedestal? Long term exposure to oil from filter when changing tends to weaken the rubber here. It will feel softer in that section than elsewhere in hose. I lost an engine in my GSL when this hose burst while at speed on highway. Engine empties of coolant pretty fast under pressure with the water pump helping to push it out-faster than the gauge will accurately register. In my case too late.
Mine is in great shape, no weird soft spots, no degradation. But if you do need one of those, now would definitely be the time to change it. Mazdatrix has the part, their number 15-5500-N231 for about $30. There are other amazingly inaccessible hoses you should also consider replacing at this point, Here is the link to all of those for the 12A.
- I am waiting on my tranny front cover gasket and shims to come from Mazda. Then I can reassemble and put in the throwout bearing/fork/boot/rubber goodies. I am starting to see the end of this!
Now for some questions:
1. Loctite anywhere? For the transmission front cover bolts into the trans case there was what looked like a yellow colored thread lock compound. In 2018 it seems purple is recommended for tapped aluminum castings, so I'll use that. But this makes me wonder if any other fasteners should use Loctite.
I didn't notice any threadlock stuff on these items, but do you guys use it?
- Flywheel nut (I am thinking no, because it would just make it really awful to remove next time, and honestly 300+ lb/ft of torque should be good enough, right?)
- Clutch assy to flywheel
- Driveshaft flange bolts/nuts
- Anywhere else ?
2. Installing and torquing the flywheel. I was thinking tighten the nut most of the way by hand/ratchet, then use my 24" breaker bar and hang all 165 pounds of myself off of it, figuring that would get me 2x165 = ~330 lb/ft of torque. Does that make sense? The alternative is use a corded electric impact wrench and keep going until it's "done". Any pro tips here?
I never use loctite on any of that stuff. Never had an issue.
I use an impact wrench set to about 400 lbs (HF 600 lbs impact wrench like the new Quake ones but mines older) and just let it go until its done. I suspect its probably really at about 300 or little less and it gets the job done.
I'll post a pic of tool i use to remove input shaft seal,takes about as long as it took you to get pilot bearing out with right tool.
I use "A" drop of blue loctite on t/o bearing support plate bolts.
Original pressure plate attaching bolts will have lock washers and original driveshaft attaching hardware is same. "A" drop of blue loctite would do no harm.
Installing/seating flywheel(put some grease around surface where main seal lip rides for some lubrication on startup)should be done by hand. Don't knock woodruff key out of position installing flywheel,you can see it from clutch side when installed.
Your plan to use breaker bar to tighten flywheel nut will be successful.....at turning the engine. How did you initially loosen gland nut? Easiest way to tighten is with impact gun. Mark nut and flywheel and tighten,let gun impact 3-4 x then check distance marks have moved. Repeat 2nd time.Marks probably in same place=tight enough. I do use red loctite on gland nut for flywheel.
If a loctited fastener proves stubborn at loosening,heat fastener with a propane torch for a about a minute. Heat liquifies the loctite allowing removal.
Flywheel installed, used the impact wrench and applied torque until the nut stopped moving much, per the post above. Centered the clutch, cross torqued the cover down at 20 lb/ft, making note of where the 2x shoulder bolts go as opposed to the 4x full thread. Here's some detail on those bolts and the tapped holes on the flywheel...you want the shoulder bolts to go into the shouldered holes, shown in the lower detail photo, the 2 are located across from one another diagonally.
Got the new transmission front cover gasket and .15mm shim. All back together, front and rear seals greased, throwout bearing shank, pivot and fork bits greased. Tranny is just about ready to go in. Quick question: Greasing the the tip with a thin layer (is that too much in the photo?) , but do I hit the splines at all? I would think yes, a very light coating, but then wouldn't it spin off into the clutch area? It's high temp general bearing grease.
Here's a shot of the new clutch assembly in place.
When you put trans in place as input shaft goes into seal/pilot bearing,seal will squeegee the grease to the rear of that part of input shaft. Wipe that down to just a very slight amount with your finger. Put SOME(more is not better) grease on your little finger and apply it to rollers in pilot bearing and wipe a litttle around lip of seal.. A very slight amount of heavy grease on splines of input shaft and wipe top surface of splines. Use an acid brush to paint it into the splines evenly,just a film,any more will get slung off.
My last clutch kit came with a special small tube of lube for the splines. I just used that sparingly as directed on the splines. I took the clutch alignment tool and put some on it and slid it into the clutch plate back and forth a few times to make sure it had some lube as well. Seemed to work fine for me.
When you put trans in place as input shaft goes into seal/pilot bearing,seal will squeegee the grease to the rear of that part of input shaft. Wipe that down to just a very slight amount with your finger. Put SOME(more is not better) grease on your little finger and apply it to rollers in pilot bearing and wipe a litttle around lip of seal.. A very slight amount of heavy grease on splines of input shaft and wipe top surface of splines. Use an acid brush to paint it into the splines evenly,just a film,any more will get slung off.
Originally Posted by t_g_farrell
My last clutch kit came with a special small tube of lube for the splines. I just used that sparingly as directed on the splines. I took the clutch alignment tool and put some on it and slid it into the clutch plate back and forth a few times to make sure it had some lube as well. Seemed to work fine for me.
Great advice guys. I used a very thin layer of grease just lightly brushed into the splines, and the finger tip method for the pilot bearing.
Well, everything is coming together now. I got the transmission back on, but man is that stressful and a fight...at least the first time. Am I lined up? Why is this thing so damn heavy all of a sudden? Anyway, "it all screwed together but that doesn't mean it's working" lol. Who's got that in their signature? Having done it once now, I have no tips or tricks to offer, except use a transmission jack and if you can adjust the engine support up/down a bit you can finesse your approach.
- Reconnected all of the bits to the tranny: speedometer cable, ground cable to the bell housing (cleaned up really nice and dielectric grease applied), reverse switch.
- Got the drive shaft cleaned up and installed, the u joints were good, no grinding and just a wee bit of resistance, no play.
- Put in the new starter, really cleaned up of the electrical connections, lubed them with dielectric and capped them off. Everything is so clean, for now.
- Cleaned up and reinstalled the upper heat shields. They are super tight, no rattles.
To do:
- Gear oil. I'm gonna leave a post-it note on the battery connector that says "transmission oil".
- Exhaust, remaining heat shields, slave cylinder remount.
- Reinstall the shifter. Interesting: I went for removing some of the interior trim, as I did that a million times back in the 80's (all that $$$ on ruining my ears at high volume...it was fun though) with the intention of pulling back the mid boot to make installing the shifter a bit easier. I got all 5x 10mm bolts out. No dice, that *(&#!@ thing is glued in solid between the ring and underbody. Just would not budge and I don't want to force/rip it.
Question: Cat heat shield is broken...do you think there's any hope to weld the bits back in? Fill the cracked bit on the right hand side? I am guessing these are NLA or horrendously expensive.
L O L!!! Some transmissions slide right in. They're the ones that make you think something else will go wrong,or you have to take them out again for some reason and when you go for the reinstall and expect it to go in just like the 1st time...nope.
I will note that taking care to align clutch disc with care goes a long way to making trans easier to go in.
Now you know why i recommended the method for shifter removal that i did. Do you know how few cars that boot can be removed without damage,drama,etc. I took so many cars apart only to be unable to lift that boot,i just started doing it the way i told you to. How much time did it take you to R&R only to discover that? Much quicker to lube and push that boot down around shift tower and pull it back up when shifter reinstalled.
When working flat rate and the job pays X amount of time you need to develop ways to do them right/consistently and in time frame job pays.
Regarding cat heat shield,you could just leave it off or have someone attempt welding it back together and put it back on. OR...you could take car to competent muffler shop,remove all the cats and pipe section back to muffler and have a new downpipe made up from exhaust manifold and a single modern cat put in and save your original setup. Car will be noticeably peppier and will have a barely perceptible change in exhaust note.
Why am i recommending this? When these cars were new and still under warranty(low miles) Mazda had a campaign to replace the pellets in main cat. I did hundreds of these,take cat off,flip it over,take recessed plug out of top and shake/tap and vacuum out pellets and put a can of new ones in,recap,reinstall with new gaskets. A fair amount of these cats had pellets melted together,some golfball size,some larger that needed to be broken up to get pellets out. Some cats had to be replaced. You can imagine what this did to drivability/power/fuel mileage.
Many of the cars ran stronger on test drive afterwards.
Why am i recommending this? When these cars were new and still under warranty(low miles) Mazda had a campaign to replace the pellets in main cat. I did hundreds of these,take cat off,flip it over,take recessed plug out of top and shake/tap and vacuum out pellets and put a can of new ones in,recap,reinstall with new gaskets. A fair amount of these cats had pellets melted together,some golfball size,some larger that needed to be broken up to get pellets out. Some cats had to be replaced. You can imagine what this did to drivability/power/fuel mileage.
Many of the cars ran stronger on test drive afterwards.
Wow! This explains the (I don't know how many) threads we have seen over the years for exhaust manifolds glowing red or plugged cats.
Back in the day I had an '83 GS with a plugged cat, and a glowing red downpipe. Even then, the OEM part was super expensive. I had a "universal" monolithic one with a secondary air pipe fitted.
Last night I tipped the cat back and forth, I could hear the pellets shifting around... maybe it's good to do that, like a toner cartridge, lol.
Last edited by Toruki; 08-14-18 at 10:59 AM.
Reason: typical fat finger typos
Great photos and great tips from everyone posting here. I don't want to derail this too much but I have a newly rebuilt motor I'm about to install. I have the 60k transmission that came with it but my current transmission only has 35k original and drives fine. Rear seal on the trans has flung some grease around, but nothing is actively leaking. Trying to decide best approach here...
a) pull just motor and swap in new one, leave the transmission for later
b) pull motor and tranny together, split them outside the car, replace all the seals, then reinstall.
Well... new engine,assuming new clutch assembly? I'd reseal transmission while engine is out,parts are readily available and low cost. You can pull trans with engine and reseal it while out or pull engine,leave trans in car and reseal while in place. Is your original trans quiet,shift ok?
If so,i'd stay with this one and keep the one that came with your replacement engine as a spare.
I reassembled everything under the car, filled up the tranny with sweet honey colored Lucas 75-90W synthetic. Cleaned up all the heat shields.
I was saving the slave cylinder for last, it feels like a reward to put on the finishing touch from above.
Nope, not meant to be! Leaking sloppy mess inside the boot, which ripped immediately when I pulled on it to look inside.
I had replaced the master and the slave as a set when I got the car in 2010. Anyway, is any old RA one okay? They all seem to be the same, was gonna get the Exedy SC612 unless there's a better one you think I should get.
I've been using a RockAuto one on my REPU since 2012. Give it a coat of paint before installing, unless you want to stare at a rusty brown part a year later.
What brand,quality part did you put on the car when you replaced the clutch m/cyl& slave cyl. Get the Wagner one,and replace that hose if it's original,could be contamination from inner layer breaking down.
When's the last time you flushed clutch hydraulics and brakes with fresh fluid,should have been done at least a couple times since those parts were installed. A lot of people are unaware this needs to be done.Looks like broken down brake fluid. Brake fluid is hygroscopic which means it pulls moisture out of the air.
.
Moisture combining with brake fluid lowers boiling point of brake fluid does nasty things to seals,pistons and bores like what you see in your pic. Long term causes binding,dragging,leaking caliper and wheel cylinders.
On a daily driver,a flush and bleed should be done about every 30k miles. On a car that sits more than driven at least every other year.
It is possible to drive a vehicle several hundred thousand miles and never have to replace a m/cyl,caliper,wheel cyl. by regularly flushing/bleeding hydraulics. This is even more true with motorcycles,yet you never see anybody pushing this kind of service. Manufacturers don't,they want you to replace vehicle with new.
For what brake fluid costs and time it takes to flush/bleed it's a should do along with other fluids being changed.
If you have replaced the clutch hydraulic hose,take it off and put some brakleen thru it and blow out with compressed air before attaching it to cyls.
Thanks guys! I dug back though paperwork...it was actually July 2013 and I got the parts from Black Dragon, no idea of the mfg. At the time I did not change the line, and of course I have not flushed it the whole time since then. I'll get a new mc/sc and line.
08-08-18, 06:33 PM
