FC Coil, MSD, Will not Idle...
08-02-09, 12:11 PM
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FC Coil, MSD, Will not Idle...
This weekend I installed a FC coil and a used MSD on my FB. I first ran the FC coil using the stock wiring setup just to make sure that if I had a problem, I would know that it was not the coil. The car ran fine. I then installed the MSD.
First a few questions about my setup as I want to make sure I did it right. Since my battery is relocated behind the passenger seat, I mounted the MSD in the former battery location as it seemed like the coolest spot for it anyway.
Since the battery is not close by to tap into, I ran the power to the alternator and the negative to the same spot where the engine is grounded on the lower shock tower.
The coil wiring was straight forward. The other two wires (orange and white I think) had me a little more confused. I ended up connecting the white to the original negative signal to the coil that is no longer being used. The orange I ran to the positive of the secondary coil. Not 100% sure this is correct. No dizzy setup and the previous owner had cut those wires off anyway.
The car fired right up, but was trying to idle at 400 RPM. As soon as I gave it some gas, it would get really smooth and be just fine. I just would not idle. I'm assuming that I need to adjust my timing. However, I did not have my timing light on me at the time and I just want to make sure that my wiring is alright before I start playing with anything else.
Also, all of the links that are posted to download a manual no longer work. Does someone have a working link? Need a manual to adjust my timing. Thanks!
First a few questions about my setup as I want to make sure I did it right. Since my battery is relocated behind the passenger seat, I mounted the MSD in the former battery location as it seemed like the coolest spot for it anyway.
Since the battery is not close by to tap into, I ran the power to the alternator and the negative to the same spot where the engine is grounded on the lower shock tower.
The coil wiring was straight forward. The other two wires (orange and white I think) had me a little more confused. I ended up connecting the white to the original negative signal to the coil that is no longer being used. The orange I ran to the positive of the secondary coil. Not 100% sure this is correct. No dizzy setup and the previous owner had cut those wires off anyway.
The car fired right up, but was trying to idle at 400 RPM. As soon as I gave it some gas, it would get really smooth and be just fine. I just would not idle. I'm assuming that I need to adjust my timing. However, I did not have my timing light on me at the time and I just want to make sure that my wiring is alright before I start playing with anything else.
Also, all of the links that are posted to download a manual no longer work. Does someone have a working link? Need a manual to adjust my timing. Thanks!
08-02-09, 12:48 PM
#2
This weekend I installed a FC coil and a used MSD on my FB. I first ran the FC coil using the stock wiring setup just to make sure that if I had a problem, I would know that it was not the coil. The car ran fine. I then installed the MSD.
First a few questions about my setup as I want to make sure I did it right. Since my battery is relocated behind the passenger seat, I mounted the MSD in the former battery location as it seemed like the coolest spot for it anyway.
Since the battery is not close by to tap into, I ran the power to the alternator and the negative to the same spot where the engine is grounded on the lower shock tower.
The coil wiring was straight forward. The other two wires (orange and white I think) had me a little more confused. I ended up connecting the white to the original negative signal to the coil that is no longer being used. The orange I ran to the positive of the secondary coil. Not 100% sure this is correct. No dizzy setup and the previous owner had cut those wires off anyway.
The car fired right up, but was trying to idle at 400 RPM. As soon as I gave it some gas, it would get really smooth and be just fine. I just would not idle. I'm assuming that I need to adjust my timing. However, I did not have my timing light on me at the time and I just want to make sure that my wiring is alright before I start playing with anything else.
Also, all of the links that are posted to download a manual no longer work. Does someone have a working link? Need a manual to adjust my timing. Thanks!
First a few questions about my setup as I want to make sure I did it right. Since my battery is relocated behind the passenger seat, I mounted the MSD in the former battery location as it seemed like the coolest spot for it anyway.
Since the battery is not close by to tap into, I ran the power to the alternator and the negative to the same spot where the engine is grounded on the lower shock tower.
The coil wiring was straight forward. The other two wires (orange and white I think) had me a little more confused. I ended up connecting the white to the original negative signal to the coil that is no longer being used. The orange I ran to the positive of the secondary coil. Not 100% sure this is correct. No dizzy setup and the previous owner had cut those wires off anyway.
The car fired right up, but was trying to idle at 400 RPM. As soon as I gave it some gas, it would get really smooth and be just fine. I just would not idle. I'm assuming that I need to adjust my timing. However, I did not have my timing light on me at the time and I just want to make sure that my wiring is alright before I start playing with anything else.
Also, all of the links that are posted to download a manual no longer work. Does someone have a working link? Need a manual to adjust my timing. Thanks!
Remove the MSD power wire from the alternator and put it on the battery lug on the back of the starter.
-billy
08-02-09, 01:13 PM
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I have the electronic dizzy. What do you recommend that I remove or gut and why? Why would this be better than running the setup the way MSD recommends? Please explain. Thanks!
08-02-09, 06:40 PM
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Still looking for a working link to a manual so that I can adjust my timing.
08-02-09, 06:45 PM
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Thanks!
Trending Topics
08-03-09, 12:01 AM
#8
Are you asking on how to set your timing?
https://www.rx7club.com/showpost.php...34&postcount=2
Or are you asking for help on advancement and whatnot?
http://www.yawpower.com/pultime.html
https://www.rx7club.com/showpost.php...34&postcount=2
Or are you asking for help on advancement and whatnot?
http://www.yawpower.com/pultime.html
08-03-09, 02:23 AM
#9
i'm a poser
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i meant the cable* my mistake. i was kind of wondering why he said to put it on the starter. that's all...
I have mine set up through the purple and green wires. Once in a while they come loose from the dizzy, causing a severe power loss and idle drops to around 400ish rpm really crappy, but most of the time it works great. which msd is it?
I have mine set up through the purple and green wires. Once in a while they come loose from the dizzy, causing a severe power loss and idle drops to around 400ish rpm really crappy, but most of the time it works great. which msd is it?
08-03-09, 08:57 AM
#10
Interesting. Why is the starter better than the alternator? They both have power when the engine is shut off and there are 0 ohms between the two. In other words, they are electicly the same point.
I have the electronic dizzy. What do you recommend that I remove or gut and why? Why would this be better than running the setup the way MSD recommends? Please explain. Thanks!
I have the electronic dizzy. What do you recommend that I remove or gut and why? Why would this be better than running the setup the way MSD recommends? Please explain. Thanks!
Due to the fact that you are having issues (so time to try something else
) and the alternator can be producing a "dirty" signal. They specifically say to not connect to the alternator in the instructions (page 5):http://www.msdignition.com/uploadedF...structions.pdf
The ignitor is not needed for the trigger of a MSD box. The instructions state the purple and green are to be connected to the "Magnetic pickup" , again (page 5).
By removing the ignitor you connect directly to the magnetic pickup and not through the "amplifier". In our case the amplifier is the ignitor. removing the ignitor eliminates one more part that can fail at a later date as well.
Read the link Stu posted as well.
-billy
Last edited by bwaits; 08-03-09 at 08:59 AM.
08-03-09, 09:28 AM
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Alright guys, I will try hooking this up to the magnetic pickup. I was concerned that the alternator was possible giving a dirty signal, but I have not seen any evidence of any "clean up" curcuit anywhere else in the car. If that is the case, everywhere has a dirty signal. Please correct me if I am wrong. I can try moving it to the starter, but I am trying to keep wire lengths as short as possible and I will try the purple and green magnetic picup first. Only one change at a time till you find the problem, right?
Anyway, I went back and read that post all the way through as I was using that as a reference to run my wiring and admitedly did not get to the end. This is what I get for not reading
. I will now ditch the white wire.
Everyone keeps talking about gutting the dizzy, yet I have not seen how to do this. Please can someone explain to me what needs to be removed and what I am soldering where? Any pictures, description, or diagram would be great. Thanks guys. Once I get this ignition noe I will be ready to SC this badboy!
Anyway, I went back and read that post all the way through as I was using that as a reference to run my wiring and admitedly did not get to the end. This is what I get for not reading
. I will now ditch the white wire.Everyone keeps talking about gutting the dizzy, yet I have not seen how to do this. Please can someone explain to me what needs to be removed and what I am soldering where? Any pictures, description, or diagram would be great. Thanks guys. Once I get this ignition noe I will be ready to SC this badboy!
08-03-09, 10:38 AM
#12
Alright guys, I will try hooking this up to the magnetic pickup. I was concerned that the alternator was possible giving a dirty signal, but I have not seen any evidence of any "clean up" curcuit anywhere else in the car. If that is the case, everywhere has a dirty signal.
-billy
08-03-09, 11:14 AM
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Still looking for some details on how to gut and wire the dizzy though!
08-03-09, 07:29 PM
#14
If you remove the cap, rotor and metal shield from the top of the dizzy you will see the mag pick ups. Those wires are the Green and Red. If you remove the two screw holding the front ignitor off the dizzy you will see it un-plugs. You can simply cut the wires close to the plug and run those to the purple and green on the MSD. Those wires will go: Green on dizzy to purple on MSD and Red on the dizzy to green on the MSD.
A cleaner way is to gut the ignitor. To do so, remove it from the dizzy. Pry off the back metal cover. Remove everything. Add wires from the small mag pickup connector to the larger two pin connector that the car wire harness goes to. Pretty simple.
A even cleaner way to do this is with a 1980 electronic distributor since it does not have ignitors mounted to the dizzy body. Just a wire harness you can use the wire it up with.
-billy
Last edited by bwaits; 08-03-09 at 07:32 PM.
08-03-09, 09:48 PM
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Search will bring up some pictures if you like.
If you remove the cap, rotor and metal shield from the top of the dizzy you will see the mag pick ups. Those wires are the Green and Red. If you remove the two screw holding the front ignitor off the dizzy you will see it un-plugs. You can simply cut the wires close to the plug and run those to the purple and green on the MSD. Those wires will go: Green on dizzy to purple on MSD and Red on the dizzy to green on the MSD.
A cleaner way is to gut the ignitor. To do so, remove it from the dizzy. Pry off the back metal cover. Remove everything. Add wires from the small mag pickup connector to the larger two pin connector that the car wire harness goes to. Pretty simple.
A even cleaner way to do this is with a 1980 electronic distributor since it does not have ignitors mounted to the dizzy body. Just a wire harness you can use the wire it up with.
-billy
If you remove the cap, rotor and metal shield from the top of the dizzy you will see the mag pick ups. Those wires are the Green and Red. If you remove the two screw holding the front ignitor off the dizzy you will see it un-plugs. You can simply cut the wires close to the plug and run those to the purple and green on the MSD. Those wires will go: Green on dizzy to purple on MSD and Red on the dizzy to green on the MSD.
A cleaner way is to gut the ignitor. To do so, remove it from the dizzy. Pry off the back metal cover. Remove everything. Add wires from the small mag pickup connector to the larger two pin connector that the car wire harness goes to. Pretty simple.
A even cleaner way to do this is with a 1980 electronic distributor since it does not have ignitors mounted to the dizzy body. Just a wire harness you can use the wire it up with.
-billy
Thanks for the info!
08-04-09, 12:10 PM
#18
An even better way exists. File down some male quick disconnects (or find some .110 narrow ones) until they fit snug in the plastic connector. Why go through the hassle of gutting an ignitor (especially a good one) or the bad idea of cutting the plastic connector off the green and red wires? My idea is completely reversible.
08-04-09, 01:08 PM
#19
Stu: I just happen to have a spare good '80 dizzy. It is yours if you want it in trade for that carb you gave me. I'll bring it to the meet with me.
I do like Jeff's method. If it were me, I would probably go for the gutted ignitor (a BAD one) just because it looks more stock that way. If you don't have a dead one to gut, then certainly go for the male disconnects.
I'll bring it to the meet with me.I do like Jeff's method. If it were me, I would probably go for the gutted ignitor (a BAD one) just because it looks more stock that way. If you don't have a dead one to gut, then certainly go for the male disconnects.
08-04-09, 04:04 PM
#20
An even better way exists. File down some male quick disconnects (or find some .110 narrow ones) until they fit snug in the plastic connector. Why go through the hassle of gutting an ignitor (especially a good one) or the bad idea of cutting the plastic connector off the green and red wires? My idea is completely reversible.
That is truly a clean way - but I have never been able to get anything to fit without falling out. Tried is a few times.
maybe I suck
Stu: I just happen to have a spare good '80 dizzy. It is yours if you want it in trade for that carb you gave me. I'll bring it to the meet with me.
I do like Jeff's method. If it were me, I would probably go for the gutted ignitor (a BAD one) just because it looks more stock that way. If you don't have a dead one to gut, then certainly go for the male disconnects.
I'll bring it to the meet with me.I do like Jeff's method. If it were me, I would probably go for the gutted ignitor (a BAD one) just because it looks more stock that way. If you don't have a dead one to gut, then certainly go for the male disconnects.
I will take it if Stu does not want it.
-billy
08-04-09, 08:42 PM
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Search will bring up some pictures if you like.
If you remove the cap, rotor and metal shield from the top of the dizzy you will see the mag pick ups. Those wires are the Green and Red. If you remove the two screw holding the front ignitor off the dizzy you will see it un-plugs. You can simply cut the wires close to the plug and run those to the purple and green on the MSD. Those wires will go: Green on dizzy to purple on MSD and Red on the dizzy to green on the MSD.
-billy
If you remove the cap, rotor and metal shield from the top of the dizzy you will see the mag pick ups. Those wires are the Green and Red. If you remove the two screw holding the front ignitor off the dizzy you will see it un-plugs. You can simply cut the wires close to the plug and run those to the purple and green on the MSD. Those wires will go: Green on dizzy to purple on MSD and Red on the dizzy to green on the MSD.
-billy
1.) Remove the cap rotor and the metal shield. DONE
2.) Look for the mag picups which are connected to green and red wires. FOUND
3.) If you remove the front screws, you will see that it un-plugs, simply cut the wires close to the plug and run those to thethe purple and green on the MSD. HERE IS WHERE I GET CONFUSED., IT SOUNDS LIKE THE PURPOSE OF STEP ONE AND TWO WAS MERELY TO SEE WHICH PINS ON THE CONNECTORS ARE ATTACHED TO THE IN ORDER TO ATTACH THESE TO THE PURPLE AND GREEN ON THE MSD.
Anyway, I removed the stock plug on the harness and soldered together another Mazda connector so that I pluged the MSD purple and green to that connector.
Runs the same as before, sounds like it is only firing every other time and trying to idle at about 400 RPM. I also disconnected the white wire. Where should the red wire paired with the white wire now go? Still have it on the the + of the secondary igniter.
Did I totally mis-understand the instructions? Or, did I do it right and the MSD bad?
08-04-09, 08:57 PM
#23
Mike,
Should be like this:
- heavy red wire connected to battery (+)
- heavy black wire connected to battery (-) or good chassis ground
- white wire - not connected
- green wire - connected to red wire in distributor (leading pickup-ignitor that was facing radiator)
- purple wire - connected to green wire in distributor (leading pickup-ignitor that was facing radiator)
- smaller red wire - connected to switched 12v. trailing coil (+) works well for this
- orange - connected to leading coil (+)
- smaller black - connected to leading coil (-)
Check to see if that is how you have it connected. Is this a 6A or 6AL model? The 6AL needs some jumpersz clipped, but that is only for the rev limiter.
Kent
Should be like this:
- heavy red wire connected to battery (+)
- heavy black wire connected to battery (-) or good chassis ground
- white wire - not connected
- green wire - connected to red wire in distributor (leading pickup-ignitor that was facing radiator)
- purple wire - connected to green wire in distributor (leading pickup-ignitor that was facing radiator)
- smaller red wire - connected to switched 12v. trailing coil (+) works well for this
- orange - connected to leading coil (+)
- smaller black - connected to leading coil (-)
Check to see if that is how you have it connected. Is this a 6A or 6AL model? The 6AL needs some jumpersz clipped, but that is only for the rev limiter.
Kent
08-04-09, 09:07 PM
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Mike,
Should be like this:
- heavy red wire connected to battery (+)
- heavy black wire connected to battery (-) or good chassis ground
- white wire - not connected
- green wire - connected to red wire in distributor (leading pickup-ignitor that was facing radiator)
- purple wire - connected to green wire in distributor (leading pickup-ignitor that was facing radiator)
- smaller red wire - connected to switched 12v. trailing coil (+) works well for this
- orange - connected to leading coil (+)
- smaller black - connected to leading coil (-)
Check to see if that is how you have it connected. Is this a 6A or 6AL model? The 6AL needs some jumpersz clipped, but that is only for the rev limiter.
Kent
Should be like this:
- heavy red wire connected to battery (+)
- heavy black wire connected to battery (-) or good chassis ground
- white wire - not connected
- green wire - connected to red wire in distributor (leading pickup-ignitor that was facing radiator)
- purple wire - connected to green wire in distributor (leading pickup-ignitor that was facing radiator)
- smaller red wire - connected to switched 12v. trailing coil (+) works well for this
- orange - connected to leading coil (+)
- smaller black - connected to leading coil (-)
Check to see if that is how you have it connected. Is this a 6A or 6AL model? The 6AL needs some jumpersz clipped, but that is only for the rev limiter.
Kent
6A model, by the way.