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Family keepsake 1978 Savanna rx-7 - rebuild or replace?
My Rx7 is straight from Japan, bought by my grandfather for my father who then shipped it over to California years later(about 20 years ago). I helped him get it credentialed for CA emissions and safety standards back then, did a general tune up on it (spark & fuel maintenance), RB exhaust system. It was driven occasionally for about a year and then has basically been garaged and not run since.
My father has passed and it's now mine.. kind of like a family heirloom at this point. It's also still the iconic lime green color.. love it!
I am mechanically inclined (formerly ASE Master cert), +20 years with a wrench but no rotary or carb experience.
I've already touched back on it- plugs, filters, fuel pump, battery. It turns over and runs with starter fluid but no fuel through the carb.
My fundamental question is this:
Is there anything special about the engine itself being a genuine 78 SA that warrants me keeping it and rebuilding it from the ground up? Or am I simply much better off placing a newer(probably larger) engine in it's place that hasn't sat and deteriorated as long as this one has?
Money isn't endless by any means but I'm definitely looking to get this back to a well-conditioned weekend car.
how do you figure the engine has deteriorated? Has coolant been left in it these 20 years? (I'd hope not) Drain the tank, blow out the lines, test the fuel pump rebuild/get the carb rebuilt. while doing all those things, pour some MMO in the engine and give it a turn by hand every couple days. Once you get those other things done, I wouldn't be surprised if that 12a fires right up
I say keep the 12A and do reasonable fixes and reversible upgrades. Based on the history it sounds low mileage. This feels like a real chance to preserve something very unique and still have a lot of fun driving it. I think there's a lot of value in a complete example.
Thanks all. I was leaning toward restoring the 12a in it but wanted to be sure sitting for 20 years wasn't a death nail.
It does run with starting fluid, it's just not feeding gas through the carb. I've read into the nikki rebuild- pretty intricate but I'm certain I can.
I thought it might have been a seized fuel pump/filter so I've already replaced those- didn't help.
And yes, unfortunately it's been sitting with coolant. Next time I get to the car I'll flush it.
Some pics as a "barnyard find" state. The paint is still in pretty good condition so it'll shine once I wash her up. And I do have the mirrors, but there's a bracket that's broken which I need to try to source.
I am absolutely in love with that car!!!!!!!!!!!! I would not hesitate one bit to restore it to its original condition. Do you still have the fender mirrors? If not, those may be somewhat difficult to come by. The paint looks like it will shine nicely. The carb isn't bad to rebuild at all. If you were a master tech then you'll be right in your element. I rebuild a couple per year for customers. Its a fun job overall. Would love to see more pics of the car!!!
I 2nd Daves enthusiasm for the car and opinion. This is a unique car here in the US. You need to look at this with your eyes wide open however. Make no mistake, a fair amount of work and investment would be needed to bring this back to a level which it deserves. The biggest challenge I see is would be making it compliant with California smog. This is a well known and unfortunate reality of today. I don't think the RB header / exhaust would come close to being compliant in CA. Even so, replacing the engine with a non-rotary option in this specific case, would be a big mistake IMO.
To me, your fundamental question of is there anything special about the engine / car that warrants you rebuilding it?, is an easy no brainer of yes! I realize you probably have a personal attachment to the car, but unless you also have the fortitude and funds to see it through and done right, you might want to consider letting the car go. It could be better for both you financially, and for the ultimate preservation of the car itself. That I think is what your grandfather would like most to see.
Very nice! Mach Green is one of the best (and rarest) 1st gen colours. The Mach Green plus brown/tan interior is arguably the most iconic colour for the original SA22C. It was the colour scheme used for all the original promo shots etc for the 1st release of the RX-7. 78s are not common anywhere, inside or outside of Japan, let alone in Mach Green. Also, Mach Green was only available on the top of the line Limited / SE-Limited models in 1978-1979. On that basis alone, this car deserves nothing less than proper restoration to factory spec. Replacing the 12A would be sacrilege in my opinion.
I also echo the comments above about some of the challenges. This car will require some work.
One of the biggest challenges as I see it is that finding RHD parts will be difficult where you are. Mazda actually made around 4x as many LHD RX-7s as RHD. RHD parts are therefore rarer. You'll need to look at buying from Australia and New Zealand probably, where they're most common, then Japan after that. You'll be competing against Aussies and NZers who are prepared to pay a lot more for rotary parts than you are in the US. Fortunately, most parts are shared between LHD and RHD, but a lot of the interior differs as do some mechanical components. The other fortunate thing is that your interior looks in very good condition and just needs some basic clean-up and restoration.
The guard mirrors are virtually impossible to find. I know 2 people doing 78 Savanna RX-7 resto/builds, both with contacts and know-how of buying parts directly out of Japan and they have had a hard time finding anything. If you have the mirrors, but it's just a bracket that's broken, you may find the easiest solution is to have something fabricated or repair the broken brackets.
Dual distributor caps? Most likely you'll want to have a closr look at thosr to get new points and condensers in place. Tuning can be a bit tedious, but carb rebuild should be straight forward. Overall, these engines age well when sitting dormant as long as they spin freely. Take your time with it and recognize that care is RARE here in the states and should be left in original form. Enjoy it for what it is,... a piece of history.
Thank you all for your replies, info, and feedback.
mazdaverx713b- Thanks. Rest assured that the vehicle will return to a proud former self!
Banzai- I know your opinion is meant with the best intentions, and that you don't know me at all so as an enthusiast you're just hoping for the preservation of this rare vehicle. That said, I can assure you that this car will be well cared for and appreciated. It will be meticulously worked with, and I have more than enough drive, persistence, and aptitude to overhaul any part of this vehicle whether it be electrical, suspension/body, or of course the engine which is the initial topic at hand. I have already brought the vehicle to CA code once about 15years ago with my father- door support bars and all, so I'm hoping there's not much work to be done on that end at this point. Yes it definitely has sentimental value, but above that I'm a dedicated enthusiast as well simply novice to the Wankle world.
KYPREO- Perfect! That's exactly the kind of affirmation I was looking for. I knew it was an iconic color but thank you for the details to it's specific rarity and the insight on sourcing the RHD parts for it. The interior is in fact in quite good condition sans the door handles/cups... those are extremely brittle. Other than that, a small crack over the dash speaker and I think that's about it(though I haven't yet meticulously inspected it yet). It's also looking like fab for the mirrors which is ok.. I have the important parts with working electrical.
LongDuck- It's dual coil, but a single distributor cap. Take my time I will, a piece of history it will stay.
I'll be sure to post pics of it's journey along the way! It was named decades ago by the way.. long live "The Frog"!
Sorry, I was not trying criticize or judge your abilities or intentions, just speaking plainly and to the point. To me, your original question indicated some inexperience with the subject of 1st Gen's. I do value originality and have a fairly high standard when it comes to fit, finish and quality of work. "Restoration" is a term that has a wide variety of interpretations and I think this car deserves a 1st class job. I appreciate what it is to have an attachment to these cars, I've owned my original car since new in 79. I've also done my own restoration on 2 other SA's and know 1st hand what those costs can be. In both cases, the cost of rebuilding exceeded the original cost of purchase. KYPREO adds some good, additional points about the unique parts you may also need.
Currently, its kind of like flushing money down the drain to restore one of these to a high level (at least here in the US). Not that you would want to sell it, but you can easily end up with way more invested than what you could find a buyer willing to pay. That's where the emotional attachment becomes critical. You do it anyway, regardless of the hardship, other sacrifices and cost. Unless you've actually spent a few thousands dollars to have something worth a couple hundred, I think its hard to fully appreciate what an effort this really is. I apologize if I appeared to pass judgement. I'm here to help if needed and certainly would like to see this project come together successfully.
This thread is very cool and encouraging to see, I had no idea SA's/first gens came in that paint color. OP you're in the right area for the car to be appreciated too, I'm sure this would be loved at sevenstock no matter the condition.
Molotovman- SevenStock looks great! I'll definitely bring my car in November.
On to business:
I went to visit the car today and pulled off the carb. I've noticed that mine looks a bit different than the USDM Nikkis.. I've already ordered a standard carb kit which is arriving tomorrow, but I don't want to strip it down and not be able to rebuild it if the kit isn't going to work. I did some searching on the forum but didn't get an answer.
With a 105757 VIN, this has to be a pre-production car. I suspect your carb may be from an earlier rotary vehicle. I'd be surprised if someone here doesn't recognize it. May want to post a picture and question in the vintage section. There could be several small peculiarities throughout the whole vehicle.
Perhaps being sold originally in Japan, the carb was stripped down due to less strict emissions regulations. Looks like an early 79 carb to me...but seems to be missing a few parts. I would guess that its original. The shape of the air horn should be identical form 79-85, as is the accelerator pump so you should be fine there. I'm interested to see this carb apart.
Looks like an early 79 carb to me...but seems to be missing a few parts. I would guess that its original.
I agree that its original to the car, but on this early of a car it could be a previous configuration from an RX-3 or a hybrid, prior to what went into production.
Banzai- Thanks for the recommendation. I went ahead and poked around the forum for a minute and it very much resembles an RX-2 carb. I went ahead and made a thread there so we'll see what comes of it.
Dave- I'm pretty sure it has all emissions components as it is certified for California emissions. The carb is 100% original/factory. What parts look to be missing?
Have you already been warned about NOT replacing the factory float valves and seats? Apparently the replacement float valves and seats are crap and won't seal properly compared to the original equipment. One of the guys here who rebuilds them as a side business (I forget who) is pretty vocal about not messing with the original float valves or seats, as the originals are impossible to find.
Have you already been warned about NOT replacing the factory float valves and seats? One of the guys here who rebuilds them as a side business (I forget who) is pretty vocal about not messing with the original float valves or seats, as the originals are impossible to find.
That would be Jeff20B. I was hoping he would see this thread and chime in. I bet he'd know what carb this is.
Banzai- Thanks for the recommendation. I went ahead and poked around the forum for a minute and it very much resembles an RX-2 carb. I went ahead and made a thread there so we'll see what comes of it.
Dave- I'm pretty sure it has all emissions components as it is certified for California emissions. The carb is 100% original/factory. What parts look to be missing?
I was thinking that maybe the car does not have all of the emissions components that a U.S. spec car would have. I have a 79 carb in the basement I could pull out and grab a few pics of. I also have an all original 80 Leather Sport model in my garage under a cover that I could pull the air cleaner off of and post up some pics for comparison if you'd like. The very early cars have been known to be unique and being a Japan model, only throws more possibilities into the fold. Its really neat to be able to see the car and learn about the differences between it and a U.S. spec car. Does the car still have the original rear seat?
Dave- Yes it has the original rear seat. It's 100% original, 100% complete.
Unfortunately no-one in the old school forum has responded regarding the carb yet. That being said, I have a line out to someone that could be extremely helpful/knowledgeable about my SA.. I have my fingers crossed.
I was thinking that maybe the car does not have all of the emissions components that a U.S. spec car would have.
Not sure what if any emission differences there were BTW the JDM and the North American "Federal" models. Remember, the N/A market got a separate "California only" model. To meet the stricter Calif standards, cars originally sold there had an EGR valve on the center Iron and a vacuum switch mounted on the firewall btw the brake master and hood release latch. Some of the individual pieces and parts to the rats nest were different from federal versions as well. CA cars did not have the cold start assist tank either and came with a special emission sticker on the inside of the drivers side, rear quarter glass. Since this car wasn't originally sold in CA, maybe it's exempted somehow. Not sure what happens if say I move to the left coast and bring my Midwest SA with. To register it, would it need to comply the same as one already there?
Mr. Frog here is a pre-production, JDM vehicle. I'm thinking it can have parts and unique or modified things that came from other, earlier models and used for testing to develop what was to be the production version. It might just take a bit of back yard mechanic-ing, to get it sorted and running good.
here are photos of an Australian delivered RHD series 1 carb (79 model). If the same as yours, I have the factory RHD service manual for reference if required.
Not sure what if any emission differences there were BTW the JDM and the North American "Federal" models. Remember, the N/A market got a separate "California only" model. To meet the stricter Calif standards, cars originally sold there had an EGR valve on the center Iron and a vacuum switch mounted on the firewall btw the brake master and hood release latch. Some of the individual pieces and parts to the rats nest were different from federal versions as well. CA cars did not have the cold start assist tank either and came with a special emission sticker on the inside of the drivers side, rear quarter glass. Since this car wasn't originally sold in CA, maybe it's exempted somehow. Not sure what happens if say I move to the left coast and bring my Midwest SA with. To register it, would it need to comply the same as one already there?
Mr. Frog here is a pre-production, JDM vehicle. I'm thinking it can have parts and unique or modified things that came from other, earlier models and used for testing to develop what was to be the production version. It might just take a bit of back yard mechanic-ing, to get it sorted and running good.
only 1980 got the EGR. you are correct about the vacuum switch and stickers.
04-20-18, 11:58 PM
