Rotary Weasel

im looking for what others have spent for this conversion
I know the engine is a variable cost depending on quality and other factors
looking for approx shop costs for the exchange and install into my GSL-SE
I checked with corksport.com and the intial costs for their 12aT conversion is about 1grand for the engine plus 3 grand in shop costs
for that price range I might as well go for the 13BT
choices choices

RE Matsuda

It really depends on the shop, ask around for a quote, but I can tell you right now that the labor cost will probably add up to be more than the cost of the motor/parts. The 12AT was made to bolt into a 1st gen, whereas the 13BT requires fabrication and custom parts. This is why so many people on this forum undertake the project by themselves, the shop rates would just make the swap unreasonable for poor 1st gen owners.

drunkclever

the tipical shop would charge you about 30 to 45 buks an hr.

count on them working atleast 30 days 45x30= 1750? (guessing) labor only.

if you take it to an experianced shop they might charge you less for labor.
t2 engine = 1000 = 1500
tranny = 250?
ignition components = ?
exhaust work = ?
drive shaft = ?
fuel delivery = ?


With all the parts your going to have to buy your best bet might just be to buy a T2 and transfer as many things as you can yourself.

^ all guess work on some knowledge. drunkclever = no expert

steve84GS TII

Shop rates in CA are in the $75-90 an hour range! If you can,do it yourself...

A TII swap can actually be done pretty cheap.If you dont replace anything and you do all the work yourself,you can do it for under 1000 bucks easily.

Engine and trans from a PickNPull type yard....300 bucks
Custom driveline.....200 bucks
Fuel pump....100-ish bucks
Minor hurdles and expendables....200-300 bucks.

Thats assuming you do the bare minimum of work,no mods to the engine and no new parts.This of course is not recommended,especially on a turbo rotary.Its always best to replace all gaskets,seals,hoses and have the injectors cleaned while the engine is out and accesible.That can add a few hundred bucks in parts and a little more time,but its well worth it.I went all out with this method with my original S4 swap,all the way down to the bare shortblock.It was well worth it,as the engine didnt leak a drop and ran perfectly for months before an internal water seal failed and the engine was retired(another risk when using a junkyard engine).
Doing all the install and wiring work is where you will save the big bucks.I only paid out labor for 3 things...
Exhaust system...200 bucks
Driveline....200 bucks
Fuel tank mods...175 bucks
All these mods were pretty much specialized work,requiring a pro to handle them.Few people posses the skills and tools to fabricate exhaust systems and drivelines on their own.The fuel tank I cold have tackled,but I lacked a TIG welder at that time and it was a cheap payout for a one-off fuel tank.

My next engine to replace the S4 junkyard block cost substantially more since it was a fully built S5 Mazdatrix rebuild.But by that time,I had realized the awesome potential for the TII engine and the increased cost was deemed worthy, considering the gains.My current streetported S5 setup has been running for over 4 years now and has never missed a beat.

Rafy13bt

Right now I am swaping my old 12A for a new 13BT I have spend so far about 3000. the engine is rebuilt evrething new oil pump.water pump,atkins seals , TII tranny and a microtech LTXs8 computer. I think I will spend 1000 more on other stuff drivesahft, fuel pump,ignition,fuel line etc... I think I will finish in 2 month, cant wait to try it. The eng is street ported, bearing has 3 windows and a deeper grove for better lubrication.

Rotary Weasel

appreciate the input
I believe when the time comes or the money is available I will pursue the 12aT..or Mazdatrix level 'c' or better with the lighter rotors in 13b 6 port trim

drunkclever

I heard in some Puerto Rican magazine called "super compacto" theres a shop out there where you can get a stock 12aT. g/l

brandon davis

iTrader: (3)

This might sound a little lame but Steve84gsTII I have been reading alot of your posts and threads about you and your install and must say your method is axactly how I would do mine. There are a few things to your car I could hold out on like the brakes and body mods but as far as the clever and discrete method of TII swaping is concerned I respect your abilty to pioneer. I will be IMing you in the near future for some pointers as after I return from deployment I will be begining and completing an install much like yours. My budget is 3K no more. Stock ecu and if I can get away with it a rebuild with a friend who has yrs of expierience.

Tsi_Xtreme

if you lived near Kentucky I'd say pm C. Ludwig. He did all the work on my turboSE I decided just to turbo the SE block. I bought the best of just about everything except the block and turbo. (stock S4 TII turbo and manifold) He only charges 30-40 an hour.

brandon davis

iTrader: (3)

Bumpity bump. Does anyone really have like a no **** list of everything they needed. Fittings, lines, materials, P/N of parts. Someone should alos make plug and play wiring harness for this swap. I hear it is easy if you have a wiring diagram but if it is that easy why hasnt someone made a TII to FB harness yet. I'd buy one.

Rotary Weasel

indeed: a complete and facts based write up would be great..the harness would require a lot of interest from others..and not just 'interest' but full on follow thru..
it seems the 12aT is the far more popular swap and easier..if the term 'easier' is a true fact for novices: as for me maybe just getting a good quality rebuild with some goodies is the way to go..staying with the 13b..as she is my daily driver..I could just see a 12aT setup with the snow here..even with my old 13b ticking away reliably and studded snow tires, I can still drive totally sideways through intersections with a little throttle prodding..and absolutely stranded with my 15's and toyo proxes 4's..don't get me wrong more power would make the 7 a blast to drive in the good weather..as many already know..I'll know what I want soon enough

PaulFitzwarryne

Most of the 12AT engines currently available are 82-83 taken from a Cosmo. Before installing they would need a complete strip down and rebuild. It would be far better if cost is concerned to buy the latest model 13BT you can afford, but go single turbo for any TT version. The 12AT may bolt directly in, but you still need to purchase a new ecu, turbo, FMIC, exhaust and fuel system, while the clutch, flywheel and tranny need upgrading for serious power. They usually come from an automatic gearbox set up, and without a strong manual 12AT gearbox.

The 13BT is cheaper and more reliable, and the weight increase is marginal. There are numerous threads on how to do it with costs varying according to mechanical skills. Start by getting a detailed drive in drive out quote, then working out what you could do yourself on the labor side, and the nearness of friends who can help you out when things go wrong. I have read detailed costs from $3000 to $8,000!

Talk about a 12A t being popular is related to bolting an after market turbo to a carbed 12A. This can be a quick and easy solution if the 12A is in good condition as you have no need for a new ecu and fuel system.

steve84GS TII

While I do think the 12AT is a cool engine,one must remember that the engine was never imported to the states.Thus,parts for that particular engine are not availible easily and theres no legal way to pass smog with it.The 13BT is prolific and easy to swap into the FB chassis easily.
Plus,the J-spec S5 13BT(easily the most popular J-spec engine) is identical to the US spec S5 13BT....making it a smog legal and easy to swap engine.The lack of EGR makes the J-spec S4 less legal in states like CA.

I could easily make "ready to run" TII harness's for the FB crowd,but really its so easy I think its better to let you guys experience the challenge of making one yourselves.
I dont mean to sound concieted or anything,but wiring was so easy that I kinda feel that anyone that would consider tackling a TII swap themselves,should be able to handle the wiring aspect of the swap.Heres the key, and Ive said it before and Ill say it again...."Get an FSM and the wiring is a cinch"!!!....page F1-8 in the S5 FSM is all you need to know.....
The factory ECU is capable of making enough safe HP to satisfy most FB drivers.If you can get away with a standalone ECU,then go for it,but 250-300HP from the stock ECU is easily doable and lots of fun for an FB chassis.

Rotary Weasel

great post..if one is going to through with a swap they should know the basics of wiring etc.

Dan_s_young

iTrader: (1)

Hmmm, your math is kinda funny. So you are saying that they are going to be working on his car for 1 hour everyday for a month?

But anyways, I am also going the TII route as soon as I have the cash flow. Honestly I would say if you can't do it yourself make sure you have some in's with people that know what they are doing. Paying a company to do all this work for you is just crazy, the bill will be so high it will be insane... If I was you I would much rather take the time to learn, do it properly, and save tons of money at the same time while doing it. This way you can buy more parts and make the swap even better and more enjoyable! The TII swap isn't really the best novice project to start on, but at the sametime it is not impossible if time is taken to research and know what you are doing.

Good luck with your project!

Rotary Weasel

i'm of the mindset that there is no novice level engine swaps period: you need to know the in's and out's, to undertake one..not impossible but, no cakewalk either

brandon davis

iTrader: (3)

I know I am capable of doing a swap. How sweat would it be though if there were a list of true to the T P/N's needed for the DIY. Seriously a few guys get some money together and start purchasing and rebuilding TII engines with all parts needed with plug and play harness and sell em. Money is not so much against me as time is. I am sure that there are others in the same boat. So if you were to offer a full package with rebuilt engine and tranny mod, driveshaft, harness and all lines and fittings it could be great. Like they said in wayne's world if you build it they will come. This is strictly for the DIY with $ and time not in his favor who wants the power and fun but without the bumps. Bumps are fun because they challenge ones ability to adapt overcome and improvise but with age and responsibilities comes the more growing saying. **** that! I am only 24 but maybe some others aren't. So if nothing comes of this post after I am done with my swap I contest to all of you that with my low Forum status I will put together a list and if success is reeped then I might just start a package. The wife says just get a different car. I tell her I do have a different car. Then why do you want to change it? Addiction!

Rotarx7

iTrader: (3)

steve. write a book already. please! =D