maf

I have an 82 RX7, dead stock, and all there,80,000 miles.I bought it at a charity auction, and it was flooded so bad you can not even imagine.I cleaned it out, new plugs, cap rotor,wires,fuel filter, air filter - all from the dealer.
Took it to a local shop, cause it would not stay running.You had to constantly feather the throttle,to keep it running.They replaced the flutter valve, set the timing, and told me it needed a radiator,and a brake master cylinder.Told me I could do it myself, and save some money.
Did all that, and now it has a dead zone, transisting from low speed to high speed.
I put some Shell premium,some Seafoam,and took it out on the road, maybe to clear it out.Drove it like 80 MPH, for 30 miles, varying speed , downshifting, etc.
No help, same problem.Took it back to my faithful shop, different guy, but assures me same ownership.I leave it, they call me, and tell me I need a carb rebuild - for 500.00.Remember ,I drove it in-- I get there to pick up the car, honestly told them I could not afford to put out 500.00 right now.
The car will not start.They send a guy out to help me,and he sprays fluid,(aerosol can), and as long as he does , it will run.When he stops spraying, it dies.
He tells me they cleaned the main jets, and it has not run all the time it has been there.The two bolt/caps, that cover the main jets have NEVER been off.
What did they do, to disable the car?Carb is pristine clean, inside, outside looks like a two year old car.As it was when I took it in. WTF???

orion84gsl

iTrader: (5)

For your low to high speed transitions your throttle return may have fallen off its proper position. See the image I attached. This usually causes low power symptoms but may have something to do with your problem and it happens quite often.

Take the carb top off and check in the fuel bowls to see if there is and junk in there, it may be clogging things up. Also a car that old with such low mileage, the carb could look new, but still need a rebuild. I suggest screw the rebuild, save your pennies and get a Sterling. www.sterlingmetalworks.com for more info. Great carb, bolts on and scared the hell out of me right out of the box. Also will cost a little less than a rebuilt stocker.

Also I know you changed it already, but your fuel filter may have clogged up due to the old gas in the tank. Check it and have another handy. It doesn't take much to clog the stock filter.

Rx-7Doctor

iTrader: (13)

Do you hear the fuel pump come on when you turn the key to the on position?

If not then check the fuel pump fuse, if yes then check the sight glasses on the carburetor to make sure the bowls are filling up. Then perform a fuel pressure/quantity test which can be found in the FSM.

maf

Orion- I can not find your attachment.We need to pass emissions, so I am pretty much stuck with stock.They Dyno cars here, to test, as in real world road conditions,no mods allowed.They have pictures/diagrams,and look for all smog equipment , engine compartment, and underneath.
Your car is beautiful!!
I neglected to mention, I drained the tank, changed the oil,(and filter),first thing - when I bought the car.I will change the fuel filter again.
Why would it go 80mph, drive in, and not be able to drive out? Not even start!
I would love to see the carb problem you mention.
I had the top off the carb, when I first got it,it was pretty clean.
This car was garaged, and I think the guy who donated it, had flooded it, and was never able to start it again.
Thanks for your tips-keep them coming.

maf

Doctor- The pump comes on,and the guy at the shop told me that they verified fuel in both windows.I should do a volume/pressure test.
It will not even fire, unless you aerosol it, and then it runs until you stop spraying.
With fuel in the bowls.

orion84gsl

iTrader: (5)

You'd think with over 1000 posts I could post one damn picture with a couple drinks in me. Bare with me, it's been a long day. And thank you. I love my car so your compliment is nice to hear...errr read.

I think Sterling can hook you up with an Emissions compliant carb, email him and see what he says. He also does stock rebuilds and they are still alot cheaper than $500. They range from $180 plus shipping for a basic rebuild to $400 plus shipping for a plated and painted brand new looking carb.

With you needing starting fluid to get the car going and running I would suggest you check for spark. Pull one plug wire at a time and have someone crank the car while you hold the wire to a strut tower bolt. You will see and hear it arc. Do this for each plug wire. Have you done a compression test? The easiest way to do this is to pull the plugs and have someone crank the engine while you listen for strong, even pulses from each rotor. One or two soft puffs with one good strong puff means a seal is gone and its rebuild time. Don't jump to that though, hope for the best. I know my engine needs a rebuild, and I still get strong pulses. And +1 on the volume/pressure test. Just because the pump is working, does not necessarily mean it's working properly. The stock pump is known to be barely adequate for the stock application, so it's not a stretch for it to fail. However with fuel in the bowls but needing the starting fluid leads me to believe there is a fuel delivery problem..somewhere. If the pump is working then fuel is getting to the carb, which means it is probably the carb. Work your way from the pump forward. Also there is a small "regulator" in the fuel line. Small silver thing in between two fuel hoses near the firewall, drivers side-ish. Pull that and blow through it both ways to make sure it is not obstructed.

Sterling

I'm afraid I don't guaranty emissions compliant carbs. There's just no way I can test the components, and the system has too many variables on the car for me to take responsibility.

For your original problem of a transistion issue, the accelerator pump may not be working very well any more. Usually secondary vacuum timing issues are masked by a properly working AP.

But if the carb sat for a while, then there can be a sticky mixture of old fuel and old oil (from the OMP) pooled up in the circuit that prompts the secondary diaphragm to open. One end of this circuit is a tiny orifice in the left primary venturi. The circuit goes into the edge of the venturi, straight down to the throttle body, then snakes around the secondary venturi through a thin channel to the edge of the main body, back up through a drilled hole and eventually over into the secondary diaphragm box. As air velocity increases through that venturi, it causes a vacuum to pull on the air in that circuit, pulling on one side of the diaphragm in the box, and actuating the secondary throttle lever.
I see a LOT of old core Nikkis with a build-up in the channel at the bottom, between the main body and the throttle body. The circuit is already pretty thin there, so it really takes very little to impede the flow. Even if the flow is just impeded, and not plugged completely, more velocity than normal needs to go through that primary venturi to overcome it. And if the secondaries are opening later than they are designed to, you're going to notice a significant bog as the primaries run lean until the secondaries kick in.

As far as the possibility of sabatoge, I would check all electrics like mentioned. It's more probable that they flooded the hell out of it or something.
I doubt they sabatoged it because they wanted to rebuild the carb. $500.00 is not highway robbery from a general mechanic who has never rebuilt a specific model carb, unless maybe carb rebuilding is his specialty.
It can easily run into a full day's work with uninstalling, rebuilding, installing, and then getting it running & idled.

ssxrnr

I have no idea good luck

StumpDrummer

GET YOUR CAR OUT OF THAT SHOP!! sounds like they know crap about 7's
Listen to what Sterling Orion84 and Rx7doc have to say they have never steered me wrong in any post i was reading about or from their comments !!!!!!!

If you love these cars and engines you will have to start learning about them yourself theres just no getting around it .
As far as your problem goes you did the first couple of things right change oil ect

from start to finish I would first do a full tune up change plugs wires distributor cap and rotor button christmas tree on a 7 check fuel pressure and flow like someone else said.(instead of paying a shop to do this buy the equipment you need and do it yourself!! for about the same money ,if it still doesnt crank and run decent you can rebuild the carb yourself with a little help from member here ,some will even post pics to help you.if you get it cranked start checking vacuum lines for cracks/damage ect.
To rebuild the carb make sure you have a full day or 2 just in case you screw something up but dont worry you can do it

when disassembling the carb set everything out on a bench it the order you take it off after cleaning everything assembly will go super smooth and replacement of parts in carb is a snap

good luck with your car

find some street rodders and find out where they get their stickers from
who in the hell dynos a car for a sticker... god i love louisiana just about all the sticker vendors are racers

maf

Got my 82 RX7 GSL SE running,by putting on a used carb.Before I went with the carb, I did fuel filter,air filter,plugs,cap, rotor, and spark plug wire set.
I then took it to the shop, and asked why it was running so bad,(it would run at idle, and 70 mph, but bogged down on transition.The shop says it needs a carb rebuild, 500.00.I told them I could not afford it , right now.
Went to pick it up , and it would not start.As long as they sprayed aerosol carb juice in the intake, it would run, but no juice, no run.
I towed it out , found a used carb, replaced the acc pump diaphram,and put on a new base gasket,and fired it up.
Starts great, idles great, but you get to about 3000 rpms, and it runs better if you let off the gas.I replaced the secondary vacuum pod,checked the one way valve,fuel pump output,still the same problem.
It runs perfectly at idle,very smooth.
Where do I go from here? Thanks Mark

justint5387

iTrader: (1)

82 gsl-se???

maf

It is a GSL. I had a 1985 GSL SE, that I sold.I am confused!!!
And frustrated.

Kentetsu

I would guess that with all of these issues you have replaced the fuel filter??

If the filter has been replaced, then I would bet on clogged jets. When you accelerate, you are allowing more air into the carb. If the fuel can't get past the jets fast enough to keep pace, then you end up having to use less throttle to get up to speed. Good luck...


.

maf

Kentetsu- Yes I did the filter, and I get great flow, I checked it again , after the "new" carb.I wondered if one bad igniter might cause this symptom.
Thanks!

MattG

iTrader: (2)

Thats an easy check.

Pull the wires and put in a test plug and check to make sure that you have strong blue spark.

74RX4

iTrader: (10)

Why did you replace the secondary diaphragm? Is the throttle return hooked up like this?


NOT like this

maf

The secondary diaphram , was the only vacuum piece that attached to the secondaries, so I guessed it was worth a try.I took another I had, and put on a new gasket, and put it on.No change.
Yes, the linkage is up over the arm as in the "like this" picture.I even tried tightening the barrel swivel, on the end, to bring them in sooner.
Thanks for your suggestions, that is what I am looking for.

Kentetsu

Here's a little test you can run to determine if you have a fuel delivery issue (failing pump, clogged lines) or an internal carb clog:

Take her up to speed until it starts to bog out, then let off and coast for 15 - 20 seconds and try it again. What you are doing is allowing the pump to "catch up" and refill the float bowls. So if it runs great after coasting like that, then the issue is upstream from the carb. If there is no change, then you are probably dealing with clogged jets.

To clean the jets, it is not necessary to tear the whole carb apart (although you may want to anyway). You can remove the brass plugs by the sight windows, and use a screw driver to loosen the jets (just loosen them). Then, reach in with a wooden toothpick and jam it into the jet, and use that to unscrew them the rest of the way and remove them. They can be replaced using the same procedure. Make sure you don't get them reversed in the process...

Also, an inspection of the plugs can help you to determine if the problem is on the front side of the carb, the back side, or both. A white colored plug will indicate a lean condition. Best of luck...

DivinDriver

iTrader: (15)

Oh, and that "$500 carb rebuild" should properly cost you about $30 for parts, and other $20 for cleaning supplies, and a couple weeks of nights and weekends.

Now that you've got a "spare" carb, it's a safe bet.

maf

Kentetsu- I am going to try your coast trick, and check the plugs.
But you, and DivinDriver are right, I have an extra carb, so I am going to rebuild it.
If, after your diagnostics, the pump checks out.Pump sounds good, I put the supply hose in a Heet bottle, turned on the key,and filled it,(with clean fuel),in about 10 seconds, or less.
It was a 12 oz bottle.
You guys have all been great, and are some of the nicest board people I have dealt with.I sincerely appreciate all the advice, and patience.The carb ,(spare), is in the Berrymans,and I will post back, and let you know how things come out.
That carburator is one of the most intimidating lookin things I have ever come across.I hope it goes back together right.I laid out all the internals on a piece of cardboard, in order, on a felt pen diagram.Wish me luck!
Thanks Mark

74RX4

iTrader: (10)

These might help.
79-85 Carb manual

http://intertron.com/ron/carb.html