drifting in a first gen
11-01-02, 08:42 AM
#1
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drifting in a first gen
anyone out there do drifting? i would like to learn and i have some tires i dont really care to much for.. i tried for about half an hour in the rain the other night because its easier to get the rear end out.. but when its dry.. it seems like i cant do it the front starts to slide too. in there some way i need to.. say its a right turn.. do i need to swing it a little to the left right before the turn, then to the right and give it gas? im not flooring it once i start to loose traction in the rear when i was in the rain. (ive tried it before, didnt left off and lost it, luckly stayed on the road). i dont want to get too crazy of a drift because i would like to stay on the road. theres a couple of deserted roads near me where there arent much traveling on, and i do it at night when i try so i can see headlights if someone actually is coming.
can someone give me some advice?
can someone give me some advice?
11-01-02, 09:15 AM
#2
I am not sure, but I think you need LSD for one.
Honestly, if you're trying to drift with a 17+ year old suspension setup, I don't think it's going to be any fun.
If you have already replaced your suspension struts, springs, bushings, sway bars, etc - then the car might do what you want. Then the car will be stiffer through the corners and more likey to drift.
If not it will likely roll through the corners and flex like a bitch.
Take my advice with a grain of salt, I am not into drifting on anything other than Tokyo Extreme Racer 2000 or GT3 on the PS2.
So I don't know much about the topic.
Honestly, if you're trying to drift with a 17+ year old suspension setup, I don't think it's going to be any fun.
If you have already replaced your suspension struts, springs, bushings, sway bars, etc - then the car might do what you want. Then the car will be stiffer through the corners and more likey to drift.
If not it will likely roll through the corners and flex like a bitch.
Take my advice with a grain of salt, I am not into drifting on anything other than Tokyo Extreme Racer 2000 or GT3 on the PS2.
So I don't know much about the topic.
11-01-02, 09:51 AM
#3
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I would say you deffinetly need LSD!!
One of the best cars for drifting ever made is the 1st gen Nissan 240sx. and it is because of the older generations of suspension setup.
In the right hands the 1st gen Rex can absolutly be an awsome drifter. as far as the technicue im not sure, im a auto-xer and drifting really dosent help at all with track times (most of the time)
I would post something in the race car section someone there will know.
One of the best cars for drifting ever made is the 1st gen Nissan 240sx. and it is because of the older generations of suspension setup.
In the right hands the 1st gen Rex can absolutly be an awsome drifter. as far as the technicue im not sure, im a auto-xer and drifting really dosent help at all with track times (most of the time)
I would post something in the race car section someone there will know.
11-01-02, 09:59 AM
#4
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You have to get the weight transfer mastered.
When you slow down you transfer weight off the rear wheels. Hence less traction.
You can balance the car mid-drift by speeding up or slowing down, combined with various degrees of countersteer.
A good drift will have very subtle control inputs.
There is no substitute for practise. You had the right idea by practising in the wet. I wish I could practise more, my car has been down for two months. Hopefully this weekend it will be back together.
J
When you slow down you transfer weight off the rear wheels. Hence less traction.
You can balance the car mid-drift by speeding up or slowing down, combined with various degrees of countersteer.
A good drift will have very subtle control inputs.
There is no substitute for practise. You had the right idea by practising in the wet. I wish I could practise more, my car has been down for two months. Hopefully this weekend it will be back together.
J
11-01-02, 10:11 AM
#6
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i understand the weight transfer, but if you do that, wont you be going to slow to loose the rear end?
i have a lsd (gsl rear end) and i dont knwo the exact size, but i have a wider, lower profile tire on the front, than on the back so the front should/does stick a little better. (i got these tires free off of my friend who has another rx7 with a blown motor that was giving to him from his friend that autocrossed it. when i bought my tires, the rears had cracks in them, and my front tires were pretty new, but we traded tires since the rears on his car were new and the front were pretty worn. but the car isnt goign anywhere so he said i can change them as i feel like it.) needless to say.. thats my setup.
i have my exhaust system going on tuesday (finally) and im hoping that will put some more power to the wheels and make it a little easier to drift.
my friend said that if you turn it the opposite direct a little bit, and yank it the other way, it will work easier, but i dont want to do that on regular roads because i dont want to tear up my car. im thinking after my exhaust, the next thing is racing beat springs, and i have kyb gr2 gas shocks and struts.
i really want to learn to drift, i think this is what i want to setup my car for. i would love for it to be a strip car, but my 12a lacks ALOT of power (18.1's).
i have a lsd (gsl rear end) and i dont knwo the exact size, but i have a wider, lower profile tire on the front, than on the back so the front should/does stick a little better. (i got these tires free off of my friend who has another rx7 with a blown motor that was giving to him from his friend that autocrossed it. when i bought my tires, the rears had cracks in them, and my front tires were pretty new, but we traded tires since the rears on his car were new and the front were pretty worn. but the car isnt goign anywhere so he said i can change them as i feel like it.) needless to say.. thats my setup.
i have my exhaust system going on tuesday (finally) and im hoping that will put some more power to the wheels and make it a little easier to drift.
my friend said that if you turn it the opposite direct a little bit, and yank it the other way, it will work easier, but i dont want to do that on regular roads because i dont want to tear up my car. im thinking after my exhaust, the next thing is racing beat springs, and i have kyb gr2 gas shocks and struts.
i really want to learn to drift, i think this is what i want to setup my car for. i would love for it to be a strip car, but my 12a lacks ALOT of power (18.1's).
11-01-02, 10:57 AM
#7
84SE-EGI helpy-helperton
In my own (limited) experience with drifting both an 80LS (SA22) and 84SE (FB), it's mostly in the road surface, vehicle speed, rate of turn, tires, and technique.
To drift my 80 was pretty difficult, since the suspension geometry tended toward understeer to a point, then quickly switched to extreme oversteer. This, combined with water on the roads makes for some pretty exciting driving (!), and taught me a lot about countersteering during a skid. Basically, drifting is a controlled 4-wheel skid where the car needs to be tuned so that all tires will slide consistently and evenly at the same rate. Any faster at the front or back, and you have either understeer or oversteer, respectively.
My 80 was setup with RB springs, Koni bars, polymer bushings where convenient, and 14x6 w/205/60-14 Yoko AVS. This car was hard to drift, in fact, I don't think I ever got it quite there to my liking. I had the Koni adjustable rear stabilizer bar on this car for awhile, and though it certainly made a difference in handling (SCCA Solo II competition, CSP class), it was hard to 'guess' the right fulcrum position to get it to run the same way in varying road conditions and tracks.
My 84SE, however, has been much easier to drift easily on city surface streets in AZ (no potholes, smooth surface) in dry conditions - in the wet, you need to be careful with any car. This was with the stock -SE suspension components, too, though they come with higher rate progressive springs and larger stabilizer bars than 12A cars. 4-wheel squeel was pretty easy with the stock suspension, and now that I've added the Koni's and RB springs from my 80 SCCA car to the 84SE, the tires don't break loose as easily, making for faster cornering, but less predictable 'drifting'. On both cars, the 50/50 weight distribution is a great help, since you'll be hard pressed to get a good drift balance in any other distribution than even, front to back. You have an advantage in the RX7's here...
The technique is as follows, and I prefer to drift in short sections where 90* turns are the norm, i.e., (empty) intersections, or entry/exits into deserted parking lots. Be careful doing this, as you can easily lose it and screw up your car or yourself.
Go into the corner with a bit more speed than normal, but not much, in my -SE this was about 25-30 mph. Start out slow until you get the technique and experience, then try higher speeds until you feel comfortable. As you approach the turn, be in a steady-state position, not accelerating under power or decelerating under braking. You want the car to be 'coasting' as you first turn the wheels - any power you add will shift weight to the rear, any braking you do will shift weight to the front.
It's very hard to take advantage of the 50/50 distribution if you're braking or accelerating, so enter at a steady speed, foot lightly on the gas holding it in place. You will not be adding power until after the drift and you're accelerating out of the turn, so just keep enough pressure to keep the car moving at the same, steady-state speed.
As you turn in, do so smoothly to prevent loading of the outside tires - some is unavoidable, or the car wouldn't turn, but don't 'swerve' it, turn in smoothly, aiming for the apex of the turn (or an imaginary point). Use a cone in an empty parking lot, if that helps... As the car begins to turn, you'll need to start rolling in countersteer, as the rear end will start to rotate toward the inside of the turn. Countersteer smoothly, and don't overdo it, or you're going to spin. Use just enough to keep the rear end 'scrubbing', and if your car is balanced, the front will begin to scrub as well.
As you pass the apex, begin unwinding the countersteer and begin adding power to transfer weight to the rear end for acceleration. This will help the rear to bite again and stop the drift. (Learned this on the skid car at Bob Bondurant Racing in Phoenix).
When all 4 tires are scrubbing at the same rate at the apex, you're drifting. It may not be much at first, and it's more likely to be more front than back or vice-versa, but with correct suspension/tire/roadway balance, this will get better the more you practice it.
I've found that road conditions and tires make the biggest difference in making consistent drifts. Some corners just don't work well due to potholes or texture, while others are about perfect. I would start out on concrete or as close as you can get to it, this will help the car to drift and will identify whether the weight is balanced front to back for tires/springs/shocks/etc.
Hope this helps - it would be easier to take you out and show you than to tell you about it.
To drift my 80 was pretty difficult, since the suspension geometry tended toward understeer to a point, then quickly switched to extreme oversteer. This, combined with water on the roads makes for some pretty exciting driving (!), and taught me a lot about countersteering during a skid. Basically, drifting is a controlled 4-wheel skid where the car needs to be tuned so that all tires will slide consistently and evenly at the same rate. Any faster at the front or back, and you have either understeer or oversteer, respectively.
My 80 was setup with RB springs, Koni bars, polymer bushings where convenient, and 14x6 w/205/60-14 Yoko AVS. This car was hard to drift, in fact, I don't think I ever got it quite there to my liking. I had the Koni adjustable rear stabilizer bar on this car for awhile, and though it certainly made a difference in handling (SCCA Solo II competition, CSP class), it was hard to 'guess' the right fulcrum position to get it to run the same way in varying road conditions and tracks.
My 84SE, however, has been much easier to drift easily on city surface streets in AZ (no potholes, smooth surface) in dry conditions - in the wet, you need to be careful with any car. This was with the stock -SE suspension components, too, though they come with higher rate progressive springs and larger stabilizer bars than 12A cars. 4-wheel squeel was pretty easy with the stock suspension, and now that I've added the Koni's and RB springs from my 80 SCCA car to the 84SE, the tires don't break loose as easily, making for faster cornering, but less predictable 'drifting'. On both cars, the 50/50 weight distribution is a great help, since you'll be hard pressed to get a good drift balance in any other distribution than even, front to back. You have an advantage in the RX7's here...
The technique is as follows, and I prefer to drift in short sections where 90* turns are the norm, i.e., (empty) intersections, or entry/exits into deserted parking lots. Be careful doing this, as you can easily lose it and screw up your car or yourself.
Go into the corner with a bit more speed than normal, but not much, in my -SE this was about 25-30 mph. Start out slow until you get the technique and experience, then try higher speeds until you feel comfortable. As you approach the turn, be in a steady-state position, not accelerating under power or decelerating under braking. You want the car to be 'coasting' as you first turn the wheels - any power you add will shift weight to the rear, any braking you do will shift weight to the front.
It's very hard to take advantage of the 50/50 distribution if you're braking or accelerating, so enter at a steady speed, foot lightly on the gas holding it in place. You will not be adding power until after the drift and you're accelerating out of the turn, so just keep enough pressure to keep the car moving at the same, steady-state speed.
As you turn in, do so smoothly to prevent loading of the outside tires - some is unavoidable, or the car wouldn't turn, but don't 'swerve' it, turn in smoothly, aiming for the apex of the turn (or an imaginary point). Use a cone in an empty parking lot, if that helps... As the car begins to turn, you'll need to start rolling in countersteer, as the rear end will start to rotate toward the inside of the turn. Countersteer smoothly, and don't overdo it, or you're going to spin. Use just enough to keep the rear end 'scrubbing', and if your car is balanced, the front will begin to scrub as well.
As you pass the apex, begin unwinding the countersteer and begin adding power to transfer weight to the rear end for acceleration. This will help the rear to bite again and stop the drift. (Learned this on the skid car at Bob Bondurant Racing in Phoenix).
When all 4 tires are scrubbing at the same rate at the apex, you're drifting. It may not be much at first, and it's more likely to be more front than back or vice-versa, but with correct suspension/tire/roadway balance, this will get better the more you practice it.
I've found that road conditions and tires make the biggest difference in making consistent drifts. Some corners just don't work well due to potholes or texture, while others are about perfect. I would start out on concrete or as close as you can get to it, this will help the car to drift and will identify whether the weight is balanced front to back for tires/springs/shocks/etc.
Hope this helps - it would be easier to take you out and show you than to tell you about it.
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11-01-02, 11:57 AM
#8
Plastic Jedi
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Cool post, LongDuck!
While I'm a mad drifter in Gran Turismo, the only times I lost traction in the 1st gen resulted in spinouts. I did have a few unintentional heart-stopping drifts when I had to drive the FC in the snow but I've repressed those bad memories.
Hey onepointone, my only advice is this: DESERTED PARKING LOTS WITH FEW LIGHT POLES. While it's easier to get busted, it's far harder to wreck you car, yourself, and other people. I plan to take my 1st gen drifting once it's set up, I've got some horribly hard tires on spare rims for it, and I know a great parking lot where I can learn.
While I'm a mad drifter in Gran Turismo, the only times I lost traction in the 1st gen resulted in spinouts. I did have a few unintentional heart-stopping drifts when I had to drive the FC in the snow but I've repressed those bad memories.
Hey onepointone, my only advice is this: DESERTED PARKING LOTS WITH FEW LIGHT POLES. While it's easier to get busted, it's far harder to wreck you car, yourself, and other people. I plan to take my 1st gen drifting once it's set up, I've got some horribly hard tires on spare rims for it, and I know a great parking lot where I can learn.
11-01-02, 01:02 PM
#9
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I don't do it on the strete, but trail braking seems to work fine in atuocrossing. Not always helpful in getting good times, but it works on my 150k mile stock suspension.
I don't know about praticing in the wet. Drifting requires a very finely tuned feel to how the car is behaving and how each tire is griping and the rain takes so much of that feel away IMO. Now throttle induced oversteer well below the cornming limits is still fun in te rain.
The two easiest ways for my to induce a drift are trail braking and what you described, swing the beck end around with a little jerk. Ever watch rally driving on Speed Channel? On tight corners, they come in towards the outside of the corner, turn to the outside and whip the wheel the correct direction to get the back end to come out. On really tight corners, they use the hand brake.
Aaron
I don't know about praticing in the wet. Drifting requires a very finely tuned feel to how the car is behaving and how each tire is griping and the rain takes so much of that feel away IMO. Now throttle induced oversteer well below the cornming limits is still fun in te rain.
The two easiest ways for my to induce a drift are trail braking and what you described, swing the beck end around with a little jerk. Ever watch rally driving on Speed Channel? On tight corners, they come in towards the outside of the corner, turn to the outside and whip the wheel the correct direction to get the back end to come out. On really tight corners, they use the hand brake.
Aaron
11-01-02, 02:41 PM
#10
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I've done some drifting on the street...but only on a couple turns that are extremely clear and that you can see if someones coming from a mile away! The best corner, ive mastered, i do it all the time, is a downhill twisting turn! You can easily step the rear end out with the gas pedal, turn in before the turn, and i usually bring the rear end out quite a bit...but at the end i have to recover alot but its soo much fun!!!! The other turn i almost succeeded with it, i brought the end out too far out, and with the 1st gens weight distribution, the car kindof spun like a top...wich was waaay to much fun!!!!
oh and never try it in a Ford Tempo...they suck so bad!!! A couple years ago i attempted a drift...the car sound like it broke something!!!
oh and never try it in a Ford Tempo...they suck so bad!!! A couple years ago i attempted a drift...the car sound like it broke something!!!
11-01-02, 02:42 PM
#11
Start autocrossing to learn car control and how your car behaves..itll make you a better driver in the street as well IMO.
Practicing in the wet is a great way to get feel for any car, but you do loose input sensitivity.. tires will brake away at a lower safer speed and they dont wear em out.
Tightening up the rear stabilizer bar would probably help getting that rear to come out.
Yes the 1st gen has a tendency to go from understreer to snap overstreer under certain conditions, especially as you increase speed
Life isnt Initial D!
A racers rule of thumb: educate the nut behind the wheel 1st, mod the car after... be safe!
Practicing in the wet is a great way to get feel for any car, but you do loose input sensitivity.. tires will brake away at a lower safer speed and they dont wear em out.
Tightening up the rear stabilizer bar would probably help getting that rear to come out.
Yes the 1st gen has a tendency to go from understreer to snap overstreer under certain conditions, especially as you increase speed
Life isnt Initial D!
A racers rule of thumb: educate the nut behind the wheel 1st, mod the car after... be safe!
11-01-02, 05:03 PM
#12
if you want to drift your car has to be extremely tight.
Im starting to get pretty good at it but no perfect yet.
To drift cleanly and PREDICTABLY you will need.
4 point strut brace.
adjustable sway bars
adjustable shocks (doesnt HAVE to be adjustable but it helps alot)
good springs
good clutch with a very good lsd in the rear.
Im starting to get pretty good at it but no perfect yet.
To drift cleanly and PREDICTABLY you will need.
4 point strut brace.
adjustable sway bars
adjustable shocks (doesnt HAVE to be adjustable but it helps alot)
good springs
good clutch with a very good lsd in the rear.
11-01-02, 05:45 PM
#13
Airflow is my life
Ok, now I'm curious. WHat the hell is this? I've heard of it but never found out what it was. And why do you have to be trippin on acid to do it? 
. Are we talking about just doing a 4 wheel drift? Neutrally handling car? s'plain it to me plz, im a 
. Are we talking about just doing a 4 wheel drift? Neutrally handling car? s'plain it to me plz, im a
11-01-02, 06:32 PM
#14
this web page is pretty cool has a bit of info if your interested in driftign youl be happy qwiut this..
http://www.driftsession.com/technique.htm
http://www.driftsession.com/technique.htm
11-01-02, 06:34 PM
#15
Hunting Skylines
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Check out www.driftkings.com. It has some good videos.
11-01-02, 08:13 PM
#16
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drift
You don't need ****.
Get going into the corner with a little more speed than usuall. Put the clutch in, give in alot of gas and drop the clutch in mid corner.
Easy as that I do it all the time
Get going into the corner with a little more speed than usuall. Put the clutch in, give in alot of gas and drop the clutch in mid corner.
Easy as that I do it all the time
11-01-02, 08:36 PM
#17
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check out these sites..
http://www.driftworks.org/
http://www.geocities.com/go2initiald/main.html
and jump on the new sega game Initial D...
http://www.driftworks.org/
http://www.geocities.com/go2initiald/main.html
and jump on the new sega game Initial D...
11-01-02, 08:50 PM
#18
Originally posted by djmickyg
check out these sites..
http://www.driftworks.org/
http://www.geocities.com/go2initiald/main.html
and jump on the new sega game Initial D...
check out these sites..
http://www.driftworks.org/
http://www.geocities.com/go2initiald/main.html
and jump on the new sega game Initial D...
11-01-02, 11:36 PM
#19
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the game is only out at the arcade now,
and its coming out on ps2 and xbox i think early next year, and there gona be exact clones of the arcade version.
with the game it has a card u can insert when playing (i'm still tring to figure out where to get this card) and everytime u play u clock up point and then u can modify ur car..
its got a sereis 5 and a 3rd gen rx7 on it
its great fun
and its coming out on ps2 and xbox i think early next year, and there gona be exact clones of the arcade version.
with the game it has a card u can insert when playing (i'm still tring to figure out where to get this card) and everytime u play u clock up point and then u can modify ur car..
its got a sereis 5 and a 3rd gen rx7 on it
its great fun
11-02-02, 12:08 AM
#21
Re: drift
Originally posted by exodus82
You don't need ****.
Get going into the corner with a little more speed than usuall. Put the clutch in, give in alot of gas and drop the clutch in mid corner.
Easy as that I do it all the time
You don't need ****.
Get going into the corner with a little more speed than usuall. Put the clutch in, give in alot of gas and drop the clutch in mid corner.
Easy as that I do it all the time
11-02-02, 03:37 AM
#22
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Re: drift
Originally posted by exodus82
You don't need ****.
Get going into the corner with a little more speed than usuall. Put the clutch in, give in alot of gas and drop the clutch in mid corner.
Easy as that I do it all the time
You don't need ****.
Get going into the corner with a little more speed than usuall. Put the clutch in, give in alot of gas and drop the clutch in mid corner.
Easy as that I do it all the time
you should know that's not even a proper drift. A real drift involves getting the car sideways well before the entry into the corner.
11-02-02, 11:57 AM
#25
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The 1st gens work great for drifting - all you need is an LSD, good tires up front, crappy tires in back, and practice.`
Once you get better, then you can upgrade your suspension.
Once you get better, then you can upgrade your suspension.