does any one here drift with their SA"s or FB's
12-21-02, 05:29 PM
#27
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12-21-02, 05:50 PM
#28
aheadau
I would define that as a slide, and countersteering to "catch" it. For a drift, say, entering a cloverleaf, the F & R wheels remain in a (basically) straight position, all 4 wheels are turning at speed, AND are "slipping" sideways equally. (ie. "4 wheel drift" and "drift" are one and the same)
I have perfomed a "6 wheel drift" while towing a trailer!
I have perfomed a "6 wheel drift" while towing a trailer!
12-21-02, 06:34 PM
#29
Originally posted by racermike
I would define that as a slide, and countersteering to "catch" it. For a drift, say, entering a cloverleaf, the F & R wheels remain in a (basically) straight position, all 4 wheels are turning at speed, AND are "slipping" sideways equally. (ie. "4 wheel drift" and "drift" are one and the same)
I have perfomed a "6 wheel drift" while towing a trailer!
I would define that as a slide, and countersteering to "catch" it. For a drift, say, entering a cloverleaf, the F & R wheels remain in a (basically) straight position, all 4 wheels are turning at speed, AND are "slipping" sideways equally. (ie. "4 wheel drift" and "drift" are one and the same)
I have perfomed a "6 wheel drift" while towing a trailer!
12-21-02, 06:53 PM
#30
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lol..
how can you come to these conclusions when you cant even see whats happening, or what the rest of the turn looks like, you guys must be pr0
no kidding hes countersteering, if your definition of a drift is all 4 wheels slipping, then all those 'real' drifters in japan arent drifting at all (find me a pic of drifting by your definition, because all i ever see is 'countersteering')
how can you come to these conclusions when you cant even see whats happening, or what the rest of the turn looks like, you guys must be pr0
no kidding hes countersteering, if your definition of a drift is all 4 wheels slipping, then all those 'real' drifters in japan arent drifting at all (find me a pic of drifting by your definition, because all i ever see is 'countersteering')
12-21-02, 09:32 PM
#34
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drifting is when your are sliding sideways with all 4 wheels.... not fish-tailing the rear end. and its not turning the wheel in the direction of the slide like most ppl would instinctly do. if you get used to it you can control it... and NEVER hit the brakes or youll do some crazy spins and thats not what u wanna do on the track with 30 SRX7's up your *** lol.
they have this thing in the east called Hyperfest and one of the events is a drifting contest... these ppl go out on the track on basically corded tires and drift thru every corner... looks like LOTS of fun lol.
--eric
they have this thing in the east called Hyperfest and one of the events is a drifting contest... these ppl go out on the track on basically corded tires and drift thru every corner... looks like LOTS of fun lol.
--eric
12-22-02, 01:21 AM
#35
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well what i used to do through intersections is gas it to where the back slides out a little, then over correct on purpose to get all 4 tires to break traction. drift or not it was fun, and dumb. one time i spun out and went into the oncoming lane and almost ended up in a ditch, when i came to a stop i was in the right lane, but i was facing the wrong way. all the other people in their cars didnt even look at me, i would have been laughing my *** off if i saw someone do that. thats about when i quit doing that ****.
12-22-02, 11:49 AM
#36
aheadau
CHEM, Don't know if I qualify as an expert, but,,, The car in the photo,,,,using the "assumed evidence" available...
This car has just gone thru a right hand turn and come up a hill. Toward the top of the hill, the road begins a left hand turn, which when the driver transitioned from right to left, upset the balance and induced oversteer. (note: he could have been in an oversteer situation at the previous turn, which would contribute to the possibility of oversteering the next turn) If he is under power at the moment of the picture, then he is in a "power slide". If he is breaking at that point he is about to "loop" the car.
I gave the example of a cloverleaf. (I see you are in BC, do you have cloverleafs?) If when you enter a cloverleaf fast your car understeers, you are at that moment "slipping" the front tires. If you continue under power and the back tires ALSO begin slipping (in both cases to the OUTSIDE of the turn) you will now be slipping all 4 tires to the outside. However you front wheels are still pointed to the INSIDE of the turn (ie. NOT countersteering). That is drifting. Instead of countersteering to "catch" the car,,,, you keep it balanced until you scrub off enough speed to again have the car traveling in "exactly" the direction the wheels are pointed,,,,OR,,,,you run out of turn and straighten the front wheels. Put simply, if it is a slide you countersteer to correct. If it is a drift, you do not countersteer, because you are already correct!
This car has just gone thru a right hand turn and come up a hill. Toward the top of the hill, the road begins a left hand turn, which when the driver transitioned from right to left, upset the balance and induced oversteer. (note: he could have been in an oversteer situation at the previous turn, which would contribute to the possibility of oversteering the next turn) If he is under power at the moment of the picture, then he is in a "power slide". If he is breaking at that point he is about to "loop" the car.
I gave the example of a cloverleaf. (I see you are in BC, do you have cloverleafs?) If when you enter a cloverleaf fast your car understeers, you are at that moment "slipping" the front tires. If you continue under power and the back tires ALSO begin slipping (in both cases to the OUTSIDE of the turn) you will now be slipping all 4 tires to the outside. However you front wheels are still pointed to the INSIDE of the turn (ie. NOT countersteering). That is drifting. Instead of countersteering to "catch" the car,,,, you keep it balanced until you scrub off enough speed to again have the car traveling in "exactly" the direction the wheels are pointed,,,,OR,,,,you run out of turn and straighten the front wheels. Put simply, if it is a slide you countersteer to correct. If it is a drift, you do not countersteer, because you are already correct!
12-22-02, 05:19 PM
#38
Old [Sch|F]ool
do WHAT now?
if you're talking about what i think you're talking about, you'd probably wear the sidewall down to air in about 10 yards if not less!
- PJ (I saw it on Initial D so it *must* be real...)
if you're talking about what i think you're talking about, you'd probably wear the sidewall down to air in about 10 yards if not less!
- PJ (I saw it on Initial D so it *must* be real...)
12-22-02, 05:25 PM
#39
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racermike, I understand what your saying there, thats most likely power oversteer in that pic
What I dont get is why they call that drifting, I would agree that a real drift is 4 wheels slipping...
I guess something got lost in the translation
What I dont get is why they call that drifting, I would agree that a real drift is 4 wheels slipping...
I guess something got lost in the translation
12-22-02, 07:03 PM
#42
Originally posted by Pedestrian X
anybody tried ditch hooking their first gen? lol...
anybody tried ditch hooking their first gen? lol...
LOL
12-22-02, 11:36 PM
#48
i say what i want
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one my of my friends is AWESOME at videos, hes made a few of my friend's cars, i was just waiting for him to make mine before i posted a link here so yall could check them out. mine will have some "drifting" in it.. but it might be another month or two..
i dont see the big deal, i mean, i dont call it a drift if you are already in the turn and you slip the clutch to brake traction. i liked what someone said (to lazy to look for a name, sorry) about how your rear will go, and your not really countersteering, your pointing in the direction yuour car is going. to me.. its just entering a turn at a relativly decent speed, taking the turn upsetting the traction, loosing the rear end, holding the front, steering so you dont 180, not hitting the brake/letting off the gas, correcting, and leaving the turn..
i dont see the big deal, i mean, i dont call it a drift if you are already in the turn and you slip the clutch to brake traction. i liked what someone said (to lazy to look for a name, sorry) about how your rear will go, and your not really countersteering, your pointing in the direction yuour car is going. to me.. its just entering a turn at a relativly decent speed, taking the turn upsetting the traction, loosing the rear end, holding the front, steering so you dont 180, not hitting the brake/letting off the gas, correcting, and leaving the turn..
12-23-02, 02:07 AM
#49
Old [Sch|F]ool
That's the fun part!
Lots of times I see people confusing 4-wheel drifts, powersliding, and drifting. They're all different!
Pneumatic tires have a phenomenon called a slip angle, the slip angle is the angle the tire is pointed in vs. the arc that its direction is actually describing. The traction curve is a plot of the slip angle of the tire vs. the amount of lateral grip it is producing at that point. Old bias ply tires have a very shallow traction curve, peak traction is generated at a fairly wide slip angle (which is why they feel so sloppy) but it doesn't fall away once slip angles are beyond peak. Radial tires have a peakier traction curve, generating higher lateral grip at a lower slip angle (which is why they feel nice) but traction falls away faster past peak. Low profile radials generally have a VERY peaky traction curve, where max grip is obtained at very low slip angles (which is why they feel so responsive) but the traction rapidly falls away past the peak, which is why they tend to bite you in the ***.
4 wheel drift, traditionally called a drift and the meaning that most racers mean when they say "drifting", is when all four wheels are at peak traction. The rear wheels can't steer, so the back of the car yaws outwards a bit. You know those pictures you see of 50's and 60's sports car racing where the cars are seemingly 45 degrees to the road? Believe it or not, they are at max traction because of the fairly high slip angles that the old bias-plies required for max traction. A 4 wheel drift on modern tires is much less dramatic to observe, but every bit as fast.
Powersliding is basically doing a burnout around a corner. Get lots of power, pop the clutch, spin the rear tires and use the steering wheel to kinda keep the car on the road. Not really drifting in any sense of the word.
Now all of this background is to help reinforce what my observation of what "Drifting" in the modern, Japanese slidey sense is. You use weight transfer via the throttle, clutch, brake, and/or steering to keep the front tires on the low-slip angle side of the traction curve, and the rear tires on the far side of the traction curve. It is highly controlled. You do not need power since you're balancing the chassis using weight transfer, not merely powersliding around. You do not need shitty tires on the back - in fact that would probably make it harder as poor tires are hard to "read" and keep on the appropriate part of the traction curve.
I'm currently uploading a beautiful mpeg to a semi-private FTP site, would anybody like to host it? Mainly in-car shots of a gentleman driving a low-powered TOYota. It's so smooth and fluid, it's like automotive ballet. It's only 11 or so meg...
Lots of times I see people confusing 4-wheel drifts, powersliding, and drifting. They're all different!
Pneumatic tires have a phenomenon called a slip angle, the slip angle is the angle the tire is pointed in vs. the arc that its direction is actually describing. The traction curve is a plot of the slip angle of the tire vs. the amount of lateral grip it is producing at that point. Old bias ply tires have a very shallow traction curve, peak traction is generated at a fairly wide slip angle (which is why they feel so sloppy) but it doesn't fall away once slip angles are beyond peak. Radial tires have a peakier traction curve, generating higher lateral grip at a lower slip angle (which is why they feel nice) but traction falls away faster past peak. Low profile radials generally have a VERY peaky traction curve, where max grip is obtained at very low slip angles (which is why they feel so responsive) but the traction rapidly falls away past the peak, which is why they tend to bite you in the ***.
4 wheel drift, traditionally called a drift and the meaning that most racers mean when they say "drifting", is when all four wheels are at peak traction. The rear wheels can't steer, so the back of the car yaws outwards a bit. You know those pictures you see of 50's and 60's sports car racing where the cars are seemingly 45 degrees to the road? Believe it or not, they are at max traction because of the fairly high slip angles that the old bias-plies required for max traction. A 4 wheel drift on modern tires is much less dramatic to observe, but every bit as fast.
Powersliding is basically doing a burnout around a corner. Get lots of power, pop the clutch, spin the rear tires and use the steering wheel to kinda keep the car on the road. Not really drifting in any sense of the word.
Now all of this background is to help reinforce what my observation of what "Drifting" in the modern, Japanese slidey sense is. You use weight transfer via the throttle, clutch, brake, and/or steering to keep the front tires on the low-slip angle side of the traction curve, and the rear tires on the far side of the traction curve. It is highly controlled. You do not need power since you're balancing the chassis using weight transfer, not merely powersliding around. You do not need shitty tires on the back - in fact that would probably make it harder as poor tires are hard to "read" and keep on the appropriate part of the traction curve.
I'm currently uploading a beautiful mpeg to a semi-private FTP site, would anybody like to host it? Mainly in-car shots of a gentleman driving a low-powered TOYota. It's so smooth and fluid, it's like automotive ballet. It's only 11 or so meg...