kdblev

I need some advice/help. My husband was driving his 85 GSL-SE in 100 degree weather here when he got stuck behind a huge wreck and let the car idle for 2 hours!!!! It didn't even have air so there was really no point to his. Anyway, He finally got the bright idea to turn around and soon after he did the car died. Now the car is not sparking or even trying to turn over at all, battery is fully charged. First guesses would be not the engine at all, but maybe starter/alternator. What I want to know is do these really sound right or when a rotary blows does it stop completely like this. Never been around a rotary when it failed, so I am not sure how it would act. Thanks!

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

well ... i guess the first MAJOR question is did the car show signs of overheating?

also, what exactly happens when you turn the key?

off the top of my head, the only thing that would make you not hear any signs of ANYTHING (no starter click, no engine motion, etc.) is if the fusible links are blown ...
but your description doesn't lead to that conclusion ... so try to give some more info.

i assume that he drove the car home. is this the first time you've tried to start it since then?

damon

No spark to all four plugs? Or no spark to just leading or trailing plug ? Check your fuses , wires distributor cap/rotor button and all electrical connections.

peace

kdblev

My husband says that the car lurched a little, but that the temperature gauge stayed OK. The car had to be towed home. Not flooded or anything. We haven't had the chance to pull anything apart yet or look in detail, so I really don't have any more info. I was mainly hoping that you guys might be able to point in some more specific directions to look at (which you are). I do not want to waste a lot of money trying to replace the wrong things. Thanks so much for what you've already written!!!

inittab

Maybe the fuel system is vapor locked? It would seem to me that conditions were right for something like that to happen. But, someone correct me if I'm wrong, I think vapor lock should clear it's self up after a short while.

kdblev

Thanks everyone! We will check out all these things this afternoon and I will keep posting what fixed it or any new info! Thanks again!

jeremy

iTrader: (1)

check compression quickly by pulling a spark plug on each rotor and rotating the engine by a ratchet on the main pulley. it doesn't sound like you popped the motor. mike p describes it as gravel under your feet.

DONNA

mine did the same thing, was the cloth main fusible link, it had worked loose, good luck and stay off the x-ways,...

Project84

Vapor lock only occurs when the fuel pump is in front of the car sucking fuel form the tank. Fuel can evaporate in the lines when an engine compartment gets hot. (evaoprating causes expansion and seals of the line) A fuel pump sucking fuel will not be able to pull fuel through the vapor lock. A fuel pump in the tank can push fuel through it with no problem. Also, from what this person is describing, it sounds like its been towed home and sitting for a while. The engine is cooled off now (I hope) and the evaporated fuel would have condensed back into a liquid by now, allowing the car to start.

mar3

iTrader: (8)

It can also vapor lock at the fuel pump if a restrictive fuel filter is between the pump and the gas tank....and that's with the pump at the back of the car but not actually in the gas tank as in modern EFI designs...

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

kdblev ~

just a question ...
exactly what happens when you guys turn the key?

if ABSOLUTELY NOTHING happens when you turn the key, try jumping the terminals of the fusible link with a piece of wire ... and see if the car tries to start then.

if it does, then all you have to do is get a fusible link (DO NOT JUST USE THE WIRE!!!! PLEASE!!!! You'll thank me) ...

let us know ...

Spieder

Well, first off, the car will not spark if it's not turning over. The ignitors won't fire and nothing will happen.

Do this, try to raise and lower your headlights and check for brightness. If they don't work, it's possible your alternator was bad(or weak) and that the battery ran the car till it died.

If you have juice then it's a different problem.

If you turn the key and nothing happens (engine doesn't turn) but all your idiot lights are on, it's probably your starter. When my starter went out about 3 months ago it went in one shot. I started the car and accidently let it die, then it wouldn't resart.

Do this:

Put car in neutral and put on some gloves. TAKE KEY OUT OF IGNITION OR DISCONNECT THE COIL WIRES!!
Grab your fan belt and turn the engine. To turn the right direction, grab the top belt and pull towards you on the drivers side. If the car turns by hand (with plugs in or out) then she's not locked.

I would buy a starter and that should fix your problem. If you are still unsure, buy it somewhere weher you can return it, even with a restocking charge.

If you really want to know if it's starter, then do a "push" start of the car. Just get it coasting and pop the clutch in 1st gear. Not good for the enigne but won't hurt a few times.

cletus

It's usually a better idea to use 2nd gear or even 3rd when push starting a car. But before doing this, make sure the engine will turn freely (not carbon locked). Had a neighbor try to push start his when carbon locked, took out the apex seals.

But I'd start with fuses/fusible links first. Or look for corrosion on wires. Do you hear anything at all or does anything even try to happen when you turn the key?

Check the lights for battery strength. I had a battery where the cells shorted but it didn't act like a battery problem. Don't remember what the voltmeter read on it though. And heat does tend to kill car batteries.

Good luck

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

ooops!

bump ...

V8kilr

starter

jump the two pos wires to unlock it,

it got to hot and locked up, 9/10 thats it

kdblev

Ok...all of the stuff you guys have told me so far has been helpful. Unfortunately, I don't know where half of these things are located. We cannot find the two fusible links that according to the manual are located in the steering column. Also have checked fuses and they seem to be ok, but we do not even have the diagram to know which is for what anyway. Also need to know whether or not the fusible links would look bad if they are bad, or if I have to test them to see if they are bad. Thank guys!!!

kdblev

We are hearing a click when trying to start the car but nothing else, it doesn't turn over or anything.

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

okay ... if you're hearing a click, then it's not the fusible links, it's the starter (maybe the solenoid) ...

i would recommend checking the connections first and making sure that everything is making "good" contact. just follow the two cables from the battery (the negative/ground should be on the bottom left side of the motor where it holds the top of the starter in the tranny, the positive is on the starter, but you can't get to it without dropping the starter) if cleaning and tightening the connnections doesn't work, then check the solenoid.

one of you sit in the car and turn the key to try to start it, while the other one taps the starter with a hammer, sometimes that will get to turn ... (a) tap it GENTLY, (b) if it doesn't work after a few minutes, then just forget it. i'm only telling you this because i wouldn't want to tell you to get a whole new starter, because i think you can just get the solenoid by itself. (however, i would RECOMMEND getting the whole starter, because it's a probably more cost effective, and they aren't "THAT" expensive) but hearing a click is definitely a good thing ...

geikiganger

My own humble opinion says it's the alternator. It's easy enough to check. Hook up some jumpers to charge your battery for a couple of minutes, then see if it fires off. If it starts, that's your first clue it's the alternator. To make sure, put a voltmeter across the battery. Should be reading high 12's to low 14's if the alt's working right.

kdblev

Thanks!!! It is definitely not the alternator, because the battery reads fine, but it will not jump. We were leaning towards the starter, but still confused as to how the starter could cause the car to die while it was being driven? I am just recently learning about engines in general and so I still have a lot to learn. Will have to get to work on that starter right away. Thanks again!!!!!

RotorMotorDriver

iTrader: (1)

Maybe the silonoid fucked up and caused the starter to stay out engaged with the engine which would then cause it to overheat and sieze which would stop the engine from running . I dont know, like McDonalds says..."Hey, it could happen" .

~T.J.

Manntis

If you're hearing a 'click' that's the solenoid engaging the gear to the flywheel without the starter actually turning. Odds are the solenoid is fine, but the starter motor itself isn't functioning. Could be the armature of the starter cracked a copper winding, or the brushes are worn/broken.

Remember, starters draw a HUGE amount of current to crank over your engine which is why you can wear down your battery trying to start a stubborn car. They also get very hot being nestled so near the engine and heat isn't very nice to electrical devices.

If you've ruled out easy fixes (fuseable links, etc) then pull the starter and take it down to your local parts store. They'll often test the electrics for free, though the scummy ones will lie and tell you it tested bad even if it works.

moremazda

iTrader: (4)

Wait a sec every one is giving them advice on a non-running, non-starting situation. The car did run, it died on the side of the road on the way home after sitting, for two hours running, remmember the first post???

KDBLEV, are you sure its not the alternator?? How did you check it? Try taking a voltage reading on the battery while "trying" to crank the eninge. Have you tried charging the battery? Have you tried another battery, one from another car that you know works? After having explored these options would I look at the starter. Just take the starter down to a parts store that test the starter. If it's bad, well you are already at the store

Out of curriosity, have you pulled out the spark plugs yet, or checked the water level in the radiator? A quick check to make sure the engine is not locked-up, pull the spark plugs, turn the motor by hand, or a 19mm socket on the eccentric bolt. If the motor turns, good, the motor is not siezed. While pulling the sprak plugs you should pay attention to see if any water/coolant comes out of the spark plug holes. If you see water there is no point in going any further with you investigastions as to why the car won't run, you have found the reason. Water in the cumbustion chamber means that the inner o-rings have failed and you need a new motor.

If there is no water and the motor turns by hand(or wrench), you should start in with a compression test. How-ever to do the compression testing, you will need to adress the issues in paragraph one, since you will need to crank the engine with the starter to do a compression test.

If everything I mentioned above checks out to be good, it should start. If not your problem will be in the ingnition system or the fuel injection system. You should probably check out all of the above mentioned first.

Good luck
Ryan

Keaponlaffen

AND if you don't already have one, GET A HAYNES MANUAL. They're your best friend unless you can find a factory service manual in good shape for less than $200.....


Jeff

sweetege

This might not be whats wrong with it but it's worth a try if you happen to get a haynes manual it should be pretty easy to test. It says somewhere in it that you can check your igniters and it shows a diagram of it, that could be it mine did the same thing and that was it if you can't find the page tell me.
sweetege