Clutch disengagement problems.
10-23-07, 04:00 PM
#1
Clutch disengagement problems.
ok, so i pick up this very nice 84 GSL. needs a clutch. ok, i drop the trans, remove the clutch, and see the problem. the disc is worn completely to the rivits. i inspect the pilot bearing and find that all of the nedle bearings are falling out and in pieces. ok, i get my pilot bearing puller and start at it. no luck. eventually through my frustrations, i use a dremel and grind it out. i install the new pilot bearing. kind of a tight fit but it went in. i installed the new seal clutch, etc....
the trans goes in a tad rough. not wanting to line up and a smidge hard to pull together once the bolts went in. goes together ok. tonight i install the starter, drivehasft, heat shield and bleed the clutch. i figure i'm going to test the new clutch before i install the exhaust(broken studs to drill). i start the engine, push in the clutch and when i try and put the trans into gear it feels like it you'd be trying to put the trans in gear wih the engine running and the clutch not depressed(wont go into gear at all). if i shut the engine off and and put the trans in gear and try to start the engine, the car leaps forward as if one has the trans in first and forgets to push the clutch in when starting the engine. engine off, trans shifts just fine.
so, this leaves me something to ponder. is the pilot bearing locked around the input shaft of the trans? do i need to drop the trans again and pull the new pilot bearing and seal and grind away further so that the pilot bearing will seat in the eccentric shaft further?? i am just so frustrated at this point. so many hours of work just to fail. what do you guys think? pilot bearing? as a note, the clutch was bled properly and when depressed, you can see the slave cylinder rod fully extend.
the trans goes in a tad rough. not wanting to line up and a smidge hard to pull together once the bolts went in. goes together ok. tonight i install the starter, drivehasft, heat shield and bleed the clutch. i figure i'm going to test the new clutch before i install the exhaust(broken studs to drill). i start the engine, push in the clutch and when i try and put the trans into gear it feels like it you'd be trying to put the trans in gear wih the engine running and the clutch not depressed(wont go into gear at all). if i shut the engine off and and put the trans in gear and try to start the engine, the car leaps forward as if one has the trans in first and forgets to push the clutch in when starting the engine. engine off, trans shifts just fine.
so, this leaves me something to ponder. is the pilot bearing locked around the input shaft of the trans? do i need to drop the trans again and pull the new pilot bearing and seal and grind away further so that the pilot bearing will seat in the eccentric shaft further?? i am just so frustrated at this point. so many hours of work just to fail. what do you guys think? pilot bearing? as a note, the clutch was bled properly and when depressed, you can see the slave cylinder rod fully extend.
10-23-07, 04:20 PM
#2
sounds like you will have to pull that tranny out, which really isn't so bad. Next the pilot bearing should slide freely on the input staft of the tranny. while the tranny is out, you can see what is causing the bearing not to slide freely.
you can use some fine sand paper and just clean up that shaft. Once it's moving freely I'd grease it and re-install that bearing (if it's not damaged) and install again.
Double check that the cluch and pressure plate are okay aswell.
you can use some fine sand paper and just clean up that shaft. Once it's moving freely I'd grease it and re-install that bearing (if it's not damaged) and install again.
Double check that the cluch and pressure plate are okay aswell.
10-23-07, 05:44 PM
#7
If the pilot bearing is shot, did you clean the tranny's input shaft?
Cleaning the input shaft with a fine grit sandpaper to remove any burs or anything similar.
In addition, clean the disc's spline section with brake cleaner to remove excess paint, and at the same time, slide it on the tranny's input shaft area to break it in.
In addition, clean the disc's spline section with brake cleaner to remove excess paint, and at the same time, slide it on the tranny's input shaft area to break it in.
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10-23-07, 06:22 PM
#9
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When you push the clutch pedal in does the clutch slave cylinder push the clutch fork to the maximum position? If it doesn't you have a problem with the clutch hydraulics. If is does, have you engaged the clutch fork on the pivot correctly.
Check this before removing the trans
RXDad
Check this before removing the trans
RXDad
10-23-07, 09:50 PM
#10
already verified that, but thank you. the rod pushes the fork to 100% extention. trans is out and i have a new pilot bearing puller on the way from mazdatrix. im just not going to suffer trying to pull this pilot bearing out. i'm going to clean up the input shaft, clean the center of the eccentric shaft where teh pilot bearing resides, install a new pilot bearing and reinsall the trans.
what would make the pilot bearing hang up on the input shaft and cause this problem?
what would make the pilot bearing hang up on the input shaft and cause this problem?
10-24-07, 10:12 AM
#14
i'm sure that the pilot bearing hung up on the input shaft and that the hydraulics were bled properly. the reason i'm sure is that i bled the the clutch hydraulics until nothing but clean fluid came out and then i made sure teh clutch master was topped off and bled it down 3/4 of the way and refilled. no air was present in the system and clean fluid was present without air bubbles while bleeding. if i ground away too much from the e-shaft, the bearing would be loose in the shaft. the bearing is definatly not loose at all. its still very tight.
wacky, i'd be your neighbor, but i dont want to spend 4X as much for a house in CA as i did here in OH.
wacky, i'd be your neighbor, but i dont want to spend 4X as much for a house in CA as i did here in OH.
10-24-07, 11:10 AM
#15
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Sounds like maybe you got a bad pilot bearing. After you insert the PB in the eccentric shaft you should be able to spin it with your finger. There's no good reason for it to be tight on the input shaft, either. Perhaps there's an imperfection in the ID of the eccentric shaft hole.
10-24-07, 11:19 AM
#16
Sounds like maybe you got a bad pilot bearing. After you insert the PB in the eccentric shaft you should be able to spin it with your finger. There's no good reason for it to be tight on the input shaft, either. Perhaps there's an imperfection in the ID of the eccentric shaft hole.
Obviously, you have no clue on what you just said.
10-24-07, 12:03 PM
#17
perhaps when i ground it out, i didnt grind enough of the old bearing away and the new bearing went in at a very slight angle. i'll have to remove the new bearing (once my puller is delivered from mazdatrix) and recheck the the eccentric shaft. if by some wild chance i f'd up the e-shaft, i'll have to remove the engine and replace the e-shaft. i really dont want to do that. but i will to get this car back on the road. i can post pics if anyone is interested in seeing what i'm dealing with.
10-24-07, 05:30 PM
#18
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perhaps when i ground it out, i didnt grind enough of the old bearing away and the new bearing went in at a very slight angle. i'll have to remove the new bearing (once my puller is delivered from mazdatrix) and recheck the the eccentric shaft. if by some wild chance i f'd up the e-shaft, i'll have to remove the engine and replace the e-shaft. i really dont want to do that. but i will to get this car back on the road. i can post pics if anyone is interested in seeing what i'm dealing with.
To remove the bearing without the resorting to grinding is preferred. If grinding out the old bearing, after removing the pins and pin guide, one only need to break through the shell in a single line perpendicular to its circumference. The bearing can be pulled out with small hand tools once the outer shell is no longer continuous.
It should be noticeable to the naked Eye if there are remains of the old bearing inside the Eccentricshaft. With a bright light, examine closely inside the shaft cavity. If over-grinding through the bearing has created minor Burrs, do not immediately despair as you can smooth them with fine abrasive, a Dremeltool. After this maintenance, clean the shaft cavity and remove all the debris and old grease. The bearing should fit tightly inside the shaft. A bearing driver, or a socket of suitable size will enable to drive the bearing evenly. Drive the Bearing only to a sufficient depth to allow room for the Bearing Seal. Install the Bearing seal with the cup towards the bearing.
There is a joke, in German, about the frustration of this pilot bearing, in effect the Lager (bearing) makes one to drink more Lager (beer)
10-26-07, 04:19 AM
#19
it appears that not all of the old bearing is out of the e-shaft. i will have to continue to CAREFULLY grind the rest away with the dremel. it seems that though the new bearing will tap in, that because there is old bearing left, it squeezes the new bearing down just so that teh bearings in teh new bearing wont move. grotesque huh? i'll be gone for the weekend so i'll be back at it monday.
10-26-07, 12:23 PM
#20
There is a tip in my thread about reinstallation of the trans that will make things easier for you.
https://www.rx7club.com/1st-gen-archive-71/engine-flywheel-stopper-554738/
Don't forget to grease the pilot bearing and put some grease on the input shaft and on the T/O bearing tube.
https://www.rx7club.com/1st-gen-archive-71/engine-flywheel-stopper-554738/
Don't forget to grease the pilot bearing and put some grease on the input shaft and on the T/O bearing tube.
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