rx-7ames

iTrader: (1)

i really like the thread about 1st gen cheap upgrades. i would like to see a similar thread devoted to suspension upgrades. i don't have a large budget and don't know the best upgrades to do. i drive my 84 gs almost everyday. i don't want a race car but comfort isn't a big concern. besides, we don't have rx-7's for comfort do we? anyway, i don't know a whole lot about the technicalities of suspension upgrades. i know i want my car lower and handle better. so far, all i have done to the suspension is change the rear from a gsl so now i have rear disk brakes. i know i need lowering springs but i don't know about bushings, or if i need strut bars or sway bars. after 210,000 miles, i'm sure i need new shocks. what is the order that you would make these upgrades, or is it best to save up and do it all at once? pleae help with any info you can give. thanks.

coldy13

There's no real cheap way to do suspension, but here's probably the best affordable setup for the street.

Tockico HP Shocks
Racing Beat or Eibach Springs
Racing beat front sway bar
Stock rear sway bar
Any strut tower bar

peejay

I hope to see how well hockey pucks get the front end off the ground.

Talk about an upgrade! Raise the front roll center, meaning less roll in the front which meeeans should be easier to drive hard into corners (more understeer) and reduced body roll would leave more suspension travel for soaking up bumps in addition to the fact that there'd be an inch or so more jounce travel in the first place. Then the stock front struts won't be so absurdly stiff and take forever to take a set, since there'd be less body roll. And the steady-state understeer might actually be *reduced* because of no longer driving on the bumpstop on the outside in corners.

Already have what I need to raise the rear an inch or so. But the front is just as important if not more important.

Rx7carl

*Poof* Consider it done. A new sticky. All I ask of you guys is that you state the application of any mod you suggest. Like Street, Autox, Road race, Drag race, Circle track, or combinations thereof.

autox7

How about some more info on raising the front roll center, I am definately interested in this.

Stoops417

uhhhhh, why would you want to RAISE the car? having the weight closer to the ground would decrease body roll.

180sx-x

^that is what i thought? if you raise the roll center, wont your car have MORE body rollif your really worried about travel and want to lower your car, cheap isnt really the way to go, cause you can get the racing beat front lowering kit, wich will lower and ad about an inch of travel(or give the same travel as b4 since its lowered). for me, a cheap upgrade is Tokico HP shocks with one coil cut from the springs(preferably GSL-SE springs.)but, alot might disagree, and i do also, but the ride isnt all that bad...

Rx7carl

Raising the roll center does not mean raising the car necessarily.

BadAssRX-7

the item i got the most feel outof when i installed it on my cr was a 3 way brace...aka firewall/strut tower brace. the unit i had was a r.e. old school deal it was acc.5 peices bolted together. 2 plates that went on the strut tops(4 bolts) a bar to conect the 2 and then a shorter bar from the back to the firewall. man did this improve the feel and stiffness of the car. i did this on a street car i would take to road courses from time to time... i also had koni ajustable strut/shocks ebach springs i redid the front end in urathane. s.s. brake lines sloted rotors and carbon kevlar street pads.... on a 81 gsl.... the 1.5" lowering springs really raised my car almost an inch... but im sure the old stuff was stock @180k.... DAM i miss the beast

autox7

Raising the roll center of the steering changes the front suspension geometry. Which in turn allows you to be more aggressive on your turn into the corners. I am just not sure how to make that happen on the RX-7.

rx-7ames

iTrader: (1)

maybe when i said "cheap" that wasn't the best word. maybe i should have come up with a more appropriate word. i know it would be real easy to drop $1000 on suspension alone. i would like to do that but realistically, i will have to do it $200-300 at a time. does anyone have any suggestions on what to start out with and what could wait until the next $200 is available? thanks

V.I.RXer

springs... get some springs , thats probably the easiest thing ... depending on the state of your shocks , blown or not , if theyre stock , they wont last too long in a lowered car as they are designed to operate with a longer stroke , as oppose to short shocks(aftermarket) which are meant to operate based on a shorter stroke , the other thing would be a strut tower brace? ( if we can get em ) i dunno , im old school honda so the rxthing is fairly new to me ......cheers

Rx7carl

Pete, you planning on using hockey pucks as spacers for the struts?

VIRXER- a front strut tower brace is a good cheap upgrade for sure. There are a few out there for our cars.

And there always http://www.pbandjracing.com/ in the tech section .

180sx-x

in order for suspension...i would get shocks...then springs...then strut brace...then full urathane...and decide after.

81Rex6port13b

IMHO for street go with:

Koni Adjustable in the front (real Cheap at classicgarage.com)
Racing beat front and rear springs
Some Regular performance stock replacement rear shocks like Tokico HP or Koni Non-adjustables
CP racing Strut tower bar

Performance street: (all of the above with)

Camber plates
Adjustable rear shocks
Bushing kit

In my opinion coil-overs are not realy that important if you will be driving on the street alot. it is nice to beable to controle ride hight tho.

my car on coil-overs is kinda a pain on the street 350 springs in the front and about 75%-80% full stiffness of the front struts dont help much, with a "smooth" ride

Tanjo

How much is a uruthane bushing kit? For the front.

81Rex6port13b

www.racingbeat.com
racing beat springs front = $100 (pair)
racing beat springs rear = $84 (pair)
racingbeat camberplates = $305
racing beat strut tower bar = $285
racing beat swaybar front = $121
racingbeat swaybar rear = $199

CPracing.ca
CPracing strut bar = $99 (regular)
CPracing Strut bar = $115 (triagulated connect to
firewall)

www.classicgarage.com
koni adjustable shocks front 79-80 = $60
koni adjustable shocks front 81-85 = $100
koni adjustable shocks rear 97-85 = $188

www.p-s-t.com
Bushing kit = $159

www.ground-control.com
ground controle coil overs = $195 (requires strut housing to be modified)
Tokico HP shocks front = $120 (pair)
Tokico "Illumina 5" front = 248 (pair)
Tokico HP shocks Rear = $80 (pair)
Tokico “Illumina 5” Rear = $216 (pair)
ground controle camberplates = $265

Tom

Just a thought- should rim and (especially) tire recommendations be included? I know there is a poll somewhere for the best rim and tire size- maybe that should be moved below this?
I realize rims are generally purchased for style and personal flair but theres a number of tires available with various performance charactaristics. I'm sure some of you folks running autocross/racing have preferences or valid opinions.

Thanks.

peejay

Body roll has little to do with the height of the car. In any event, body roll is not a bad thing *unless you're running out of suspension travel*.

You're confusing weight transfer with body roll.

Weight transfer is directly related to CG vs. track width.

Body roll is the CG's mass, divided by the distance from the CG to the roll center, versus the roll stiffness of the suspension.

For most cars, when you lower the front, the roll center drops faster than the CG does. (Fox-body Mustangs are famous for this) So what happens is the roll center is further away from the CG, so the CG has more leverage against the suspension, so there is MORE roll. Even though there is less weight transfer due to the CG being lower.

So not only does the body roll more when you lower, but there is less suspension travel to take up the bumps. So you wind up having front springs at least twice as stiff as stock.

G-Force Racing will sell you "turn in spacer". These exploit a weirdness of the RX-7 front suspension, which is that the knuckle is two-piece. The spacers move the ball joint lower, raising the roll center, decreasing body roll for the same suspension roll stiffness.

However, I don't plan on running racing springs, I like having ground clearance and suspension travel, so why not get the benefits of the ball joint spacers by simply raising the suspension up? Gives me the best of all worlds for what I am concerned with, which is REAL WORLD speed. Meaning driving over roads that have actual, you know, BUMPS in them. Nothing worse than railing a corner at 60mph and coming across some cross-road frost heaves. IF you have no suspension travel that is! But with a tad less body roll and a lot more suspension compression travel, bumps would be No Worries since there'd be plenty of travel left to soak up the bumps even at high G cornering. And plus, no more listening in anguish as the crossmember and exhaust bash the ground over the really fun roads. I drive 45mph down roads that the simpering fools pick down at 15mph in their Grand Cherokees.

For the rear it's the same thing.... except it's "why should I spend big bucks on a Panhard rod setup to get my roll center lower down (needed for different reasons than raising it in the front), when I can just raise the CG up away from the roll center in the Watts?" Again, win-win-win situation. More predictable handling, more suspension travel for that Real-World Speed, and costs a ton less than The Accepted Way of Doing Things.

BTW - A regulation hockey puck is *just* the right diameter to fit inside the FB front lower spring pocket. Just need to holesaw out the center, make a slice to allow it to fit the spring pocket, and maybe a hoseclamp around the mess to prevent it from spreading. Times two for a roughly 1.5-2" additional ride height, which ain't much considering with stock springs there's only about an INCH of compression travel with the stock sagged springs. But that's right in the middle of the strut's stroke, and rebound travel is as important as compression.

OriGiNaL TyPe R

iTrader: (2)

hey thankz for the info on the shocks...(81 rex ...so sorry that you live in cali with the emmisions and all...don't they have a law of 20 years considered historic (no emission)..? i just bought my 8th rx my second se...loving life...

81Rex6port13b

the no emission law only effects cars that were built before 1973...

so yea need to get smoged... but lets just say there is a place, run by a guy, that smogs a car, that passes no matter what...

rx-7ames

iTrader: (1)

i know what you mean 81rex. when i was a kid i lived in california. my parents had an old suburban that would pass for emissions for $50.

SA22C_NZ

Hiya Rx lovers,

I have owned my 1st gen '79 for 6 years and I'm now undergoing a full suspension rebuild along with a friend of mine who recently bought a basic but straight 1st gen shell. This weekend we'll attempt to make some front adjustable camber plates with fixed castor probably like riffraff's 4-sale sev (which looks very cool). I have seen some good pix from the TEIN website detailing the pillow-ball mount http://www.tein.co.jp/pumnte.html. Import parts are pricey in NZ and custom fabrication is popular here - I will make strut-tops for my 323 (GLC) too. We will go for a DIY fully-adj kit for ride height - I'm looking at a full kit for around US$420. That should sort it. I agree with the stock rear swaybar - I think the early cars like mine have the largest 1st gen one if you want a really stiff setup. I will try and get a whiteline adjustable front swaybar www.whiteline.com.au
Get sonme sticky tyres too (be sure to fit decent wheel studs with aftermarket wheels too). I have tried Toyo proxes FZ4's on my rwd GLC (5-door hatch) (P215/50/13) and they are a cool non-race tyre with great all-weather grip. I will use these on the sev for a while once I've completed the build-up on my 12A bridgeport, then probably get Toyo ra1's.
I plan on running 225/50/14 RA1's on the glc for a while too - it has stock 1st gen front struts and brakes (bolt-in but slight +ve camb.). The glc has some old style KYB gas-a-just (black) rear shocks that are great (bought 2nd hand for ~US$20) these are very stiff and short so I can run cut rear oem springs and have great rear suspension. Soon the front to match. I will try to replicate a rx-7 setup on the glc front (I'll add an rx style swaybar and tension rods) and have really low aftermarket springs. Any questions on my setup drop an email my way.

Basically I won't go over the top but it won't essentially be 'cheap'. I'd say go for awesome tyres but with huge grip (if you choose wide toyo ra1's) make sure you have fresh gear oil in the trans and diff - expect the driveline to be under greater load.

This is my first post, yay. I want to hit 100 soon to get a custom avatar of my sev. My next few posts will probably be short.

Blitz0309

Alright, Im working on my SE, and i am currently making a list of what i need to get to get the whole project done.. (damn i need money).

I have a pair of KYB's for the back that i got when i bought a car... but i don't know if i will use them.

I guess my main question is what are the main differences between the KONI's at classic garage, or the Tokico HPs and Illuminias?

I have a set of the konis on my GSL, and am happy with them, but i was wondering if the tokico's are any better.

BTW, probably going with racing beat springs.

rx-7ames

iTrader: (1)

i like where tom was going. i have thought a lot about wheel and tire size. the poll on best looking wheels and size but i haven't seen a whole lot about tire size. i like the 16's and i heard the biggest you can go in the front is 16x7's with 205 tires. does anyone know how big you can go in the rear. i saw somebody with 16x8's in the rear but i don't know about the tire size. does anyone know how big you can go in the rear? thanks.