ive searched and cant find much about this supject.

i want to know what are the best apex seals to use with a 3mm 12a streetport turbo running a 10-15 psi. Ive been told great things about RA seals but their site says they are soold out of 3mm 12a seals.


do atkins seals hold up to 10-15psi? anyone using any other kind of seals i dont know about?

thanks for the help guys

edit: this engine is rev limited at 7,500 FYI
thanks

 

i have heard that stock mazda seals are good, but dont take my word for it, ask someone with experience, maybe ask robert at rotary shack

 

I'd say stock seals in 3mm are the best. I run 2mm ALS seals, and if they made 3mm I'd suggest them all the way. I've heard all kinds of stories about other seals, most likely exaggerated. If you're not planning on pushing the limit, stock will give you the best sealing and longevity, period. But when they break, they tend to cause a bit of havoc.

 

Stock is usually the best option, but if you are going to someone to tune your car I would ask them.

I am running TII stock seals in my TII swapped FB (2mm), but my tuner recommended using his seals (go figure). If your not going for an extremely high horsepower setup (300+ rwhp) I would still use stock seals. Some guys are making LOTS of power off of stock seals, but it is all in the tuning. Alot of the time people are quick to come to conclusions for seals breaking/blowing, but usually it is a tuning issue.

Aftermarket seals can be very hit or miss, some seals can warp (they promise they won't break, but they warp and the engine needs to be pulled appart to straighten the seals again to get good compression). Longevity is a big issue, and no one has matched the long life of factory seals and some can be hard on rotor housings (which are big money...). You really need to consider what the vehicle is being used for, if it's a street car stock seals are your best option hand down in my opinion. If the car is a full out drag car, you may be better off with some unbreakable seals, as you will be pulling the engine out and appart frequently.

 

wow stock seals haha i didnt even think about it that way! it does make alot of sense thats for sure... im still pretty far from putting seals back in the motor, its still being ported, which i prolly wont have time to finish till september but im just trying to think ahead here and all my buddies keep telling me to go with RA seals but apparently they are sold out..


so i was wondering about atkins cryo seals..http://atkinsrotary.com/store/catalo...d-p-16969.html
they say these are good for turboed engines, are they better than stock mazda seals?

 

also, where can i buy stock mazda apex seals? i want to get an idea of price

 

I would recommend looking at mazdatrix or pineapple racing (I got mine from pineapple).

It's extremely hard to give advice on apex seals, some people have had good luck with aftermarket seals. I have heard lots of good things about RA seals, but they are horror stories about almost any kind of apex seal. It's all in the tuning and how the car is setup.

Just know that hands down Mazda has put more research into apex seals than any of these aftermarket companies. Think of how long most stock apex seals last in these cars, without extreme wear on the housings.

A seal must provide longevity, strength, have good sealing properties, not cause excessive wear on the housings, distribute heat. (I'm sure there is more things I have forgot to mention, just a quick list.) Mazda seals seem to provide a good mix of all of the charactoristics you want.

 

I've been pretty impressed by the durability of my non-cryo Atkins seals. I ran a Camden supercharger for a while on this engine, and when I first got it installed I forgot to retard the timing, and the first time I boosted I was getting audible detonation. After I pulled some timing, it was fine, and a compression test came out good. No harm done, it seems. They probably won't last as long as stock seals, but that's fine by me.

 

Atkins are good, mazda very good, RA is ****, I have personally seen what they did to a pair of housings even with premix.

 

If you have the big bucks, go ceramic. Have been known to hold up better to detonation than any of the steel variety. NRS ceramic seals have been around for a bit.

 

so how are ceramics for a daily driver turbo engine? and what are they more prone to breaking with detonation than would be say the als seals or RA seals? Im running a dizzy still and dont want to break another seal... thanks

 

I'm thinking about going with the GOOPY seals from Goopy Performance... there's a local guy down here that sells them for a decent price ($300/set) and I've heard good things... I think solid corner seals (Atkin's makes some good ones) and properly fit side seals are more important than apex seals, personally.

 

To Run ceramics - You need to have practically new (or preferably new) Housings.

Also, for only 15PSI (like the OP asked) - it would be a waste of money.

 

if you're going to run the engine in detonation/pre ignition conditions, it doesn't matter what seal you use, they will all break. its kind of important you tune it so its not detonating.

 

i know that, but it is more likely without any type of computer to tune it. obviously i dont want it to be detonating or pre igniting.

 

its been done with a carb too, you just have to be REALLY conservative with the tune. cold plugs too

 

im assuming your talking about carlos right?....+1 on the goopy seals, there are alot of turbo drag cars that run them with no problems what so ever, and if it's good enough for a drag car that get's alot of abuse/boost it's got to be good enough to hold up on a street car

 

i have seen a lot of race cars running goopy seals at track. but has anyone have put 30000 miles on them? because a driver like my self i will boost my car 4 like hour 1 1/2 drive......anyone right now i am running the older atkins seals.i have bin abusing them . don't no whats up with the new ones. i have friends saying its hit or miss...... u never no what to believe....but these are the same friend saying the black seals r the best thing since slice bread. a year later they are looking 4 rotor housings....

 

goopy and super seals are both black seals tho

 

not the same material......

 

i got 10s leading and 9s trailing for plugs. also i was running 10 degrees advance locked dizzy...