Anyone swap a gslse powersteering pump to a s4 one?
10-12-19, 09:46 PM
#1
Anyone swap a gslse powersteering pump to a s4 one?
Since i cant find a new powersteering pump. Seeing if anyone has swapped a gslse pump for a s4. I know about the speed control but im thinking it should still work not plugged in just wondering about mounting and hoses.
10-20-19, 11:38 AM
#4
It’s not new but I have one I have pulled off my car. It’s and 84 gls. It works. But let me know.
10-21-19, 01:21 PM
#5
84SE-EGI helpy-helperton
Maybe some insights into the SE Power Steering Pump & mechanism from my recent experience;
1) Mazdatrix sells a Power Steering (PS) Pump rebuild kit - but it's actually the rebuild kit for the Power Steering BOX - not the pump. The Box uses recirculating ball just like the manual boxes, but the PS uses the pressure pump to provide hydraulic force to one side of the ball stack or the other to provide power assist. If your PS pump is leaking fluid, it could be due a few things which can be repaired, or it might just be a loose pressure or return line which could be tightened up to stop the leak.
2) Rebuilding the Pump - First off, the pump is a simple off-center rotating disk with vanes which move in slots to pump hydraulic fluid through the pump. This is a sandwich design which must be rebuilt or refurbished attached to the PS Pump Mount, as the front pulley CANNOT BE REMOVED. Don't try - or you'll ruin the pulley and the pump. That said, it's easy enough to remove the bolts which hold the sandwich together, and from there you can see how it all comes apart and goes back together. The O-ring seals are compressed by the sandwich to seal the pump - just like our engines. On reassembly, you'll notice that there's a small C-clip which holds the rotating assembly to the main shaft. There's a thrust washer just before the C-clip that has likely been worn enough to allow significant fore and aft movement of the main shaft - which can allow the shaft to move forward and leak hydraulic fluid under pressure out the front by the Pulley. If this is the case on yours, simply flip the thrust washer over and reinstall the C-clip. This resets the fore and aft dimension and will seal the front bearing of the pump - for awhile (*probably another 100k miles...). Bolt it all back together and install the reservoir, which has a small rubber O-ring to seal it against the pump, and then it's ready to go back in. At this point, also check your PS Idler Pulley to be sure the bearing spins freely and quietly, if not - replace it. Easier to just buy a complete Idler Pulley than the bearing unless you have a press and the experience to do it without damaging the bearing.
3) Rebuilding the PS Box - ***Caveat: I've not done this part, yet***. As stated, Mazdatrix sells the PS Box rebuild kit which includes all the O-rings you need to reseal the Box. This may require removal of the entire steering column (FSM says so), or not (RX7Club!), but would require significant work to get the Box out for bench rebuild, and then you have to remove the ball stack (recirculating ball system) and alternate the shiny ***** with the dull ***** on reinstallation - and it all sounded pretty onerous. If anybody has any experience with that, I'm all ears - I've searched and read multiple posts on this, and it's indeterminate if the entire column must come out.
4) Speed Sensitive Power Steering - There's a solenoid valve on the PS Pump which opens an orifice to allow greater hydraulic fluid flow through the system, resulting in lighter steering. This electrical connection is 2-wire and seems to be all-or-nothing, i.e., when 12v is run to it, the solenoid valve opens and 'boosts' the PS effect. The signal wire for this comes from the ECU, and is likely triggered by engine RPM, but I don't know the specifics on this. Either way, you could switch this to 12v inside the car if you wanted to enable easier parking or faster steering on an Autocross course, I suppose - it's pretty straight forward. If you left it disconnected, you'd still get power steering, just won't get greater assist at low speeds. Mazda designed this to soften the PS effect at higher vehicle speeds for greater stability and control as felt by the driver.
5) Possible solutions - If the hoses are good, you flipped the thrust washer on your pump and reinstalled the C-clip, and it's not leaking anywhere else, your stock pump may be just fine. If you go through the effort to rebuild your Box, I'd be curious to see how difficult that is - so please report back. The stock system is fairly well-designed, but the pumps, brackets, and steering assemblies are different between SA / FB to FC, making simple retrofit of more modern parts more difficult. David Lane had a write-up on this on his site, if it's still active - and he even stated there that he'd never do it again. FOUND IT, so here it is: https://www.nellump.net/peri/power-s...p-upgrade.html
6) My solution - After finding that my Box was what was leaking, I just removed the PS pump belt and called it a day. I may dig into this again at some point in the future, but I've gotten used to manual steering and built up my arm strength doing so - which saves me $$$ by not going to the gym. Some guys have looped the 2 hydraulic hoses over the top of the pump and installed a reservoir to hold PS fluid (or gear oil) to lube the assembly, which is probably prudent. I didn't and it's still going strong, with no signs of increasing dead center or wear - but I'm also careful to always have vehicle motion before trying to turn the tires...
7) Recommended Fluids for PS - If you get your PS back up and running, DO NOT put PS fluid in it. As crazy as this sounds, if you buy and use Dexron3 Automatic Transmission hydraulic fluid, you'll have fewer problems with leaks. A mechanic that worked on my other cars recommended it after a steering rack replacement on an Infiniti, and he was right - that rack never leaked again.
Hope this helps in some way,
1) Mazdatrix sells a Power Steering (PS) Pump rebuild kit - but it's actually the rebuild kit for the Power Steering BOX - not the pump. The Box uses recirculating ball just like the manual boxes, but the PS uses the pressure pump to provide hydraulic force to one side of the ball stack or the other to provide power assist. If your PS pump is leaking fluid, it could be due a few things which can be repaired, or it might just be a loose pressure or return line which could be tightened up to stop the leak.
2) Rebuilding the Pump - First off, the pump is a simple off-center rotating disk with vanes which move in slots to pump hydraulic fluid through the pump. This is a sandwich design which must be rebuilt or refurbished attached to the PS Pump Mount, as the front pulley CANNOT BE REMOVED. Don't try - or you'll ruin the pulley and the pump. That said, it's easy enough to remove the bolts which hold the sandwich together, and from there you can see how it all comes apart and goes back together. The O-ring seals are compressed by the sandwich to seal the pump - just like our engines. On reassembly, you'll notice that there's a small C-clip which holds the rotating assembly to the main shaft. There's a thrust washer just before the C-clip that has likely been worn enough to allow significant fore and aft movement of the main shaft - which can allow the shaft to move forward and leak hydraulic fluid under pressure out the front by the Pulley. If this is the case on yours, simply flip the thrust washer over and reinstall the C-clip. This resets the fore and aft dimension and will seal the front bearing of the pump - for awhile (*probably another 100k miles...). Bolt it all back together and install the reservoir, which has a small rubber O-ring to seal it against the pump, and then it's ready to go back in. At this point, also check your PS Idler Pulley to be sure the bearing spins freely and quietly, if not - replace it. Easier to just buy a complete Idler Pulley than the bearing unless you have a press and the experience to do it without damaging the bearing.
3) Rebuilding the PS Box - ***Caveat: I've not done this part, yet***. As stated, Mazdatrix sells the PS Box rebuild kit which includes all the O-rings you need to reseal the Box. This may require removal of the entire steering column (FSM says so), or not (RX7Club!), but would require significant work to get the Box out for bench rebuild, and then you have to remove the ball stack (recirculating ball system) and alternate the shiny ***** with the dull ***** on reinstallation - and it all sounded pretty onerous. If anybody has any experience with that, I'm all ears - I've searched and read multiple posts on this, and it's indeterminate if the entire column must come out.
4) Speed Sensitive Power Steering - There's a solenoid valve on the PS Pump which opens an orifice to allow greater hydraulic fluid flow through the system, resulting in lighter steering. This electrical connection is 2-wire and seems to be all-or-nothing, i.e., when 12v is run to it, the solenoid valve opens and 'boosts' the PS effect. The signal wire for this comes from the ECU, and is likely triggered by engine RPM, but I don't know the specifics on this. Either way, you could switch this to 12v inside the car if you wanted to enable easier parking or faster steering on an Autocross course, I suppose - it's pretty straight forward. If you left it disconnected, you'd still get power steering, just won't get greater assist at low speeds. Mazda designed this to soften the PS effect at higher vehicle speeds for greater stability and control as felt by the driver.
5) Possible solutions - If the hoses are good, you flipped the thrust washer on your pump and reinstalled the C-clip, and it's not leaking anywhere else, your stock pump may be just fine. If you go through the effort to rebuild your Box, I'd be curious to see how difficult that is - so please report back. The stock system is fairly well-designed, but the pumps, brackets, and steering assemblies are different between SA / FB to FC, making simple retrofit of more modern parts more difficult. David Lane had a write-up on this on his site, if it's still active - and he even stated there that he'd never do it again. FOUND IT, so here it is: https://www.nellump.net/peri/power-s...p-upgrade.html
6) My solution - After finding that my Box was what was leaking, I just removed the PS pump belt and called it a day. I may dig into this again at some point in the future, but I've gotten used to manual steering and built up my arm strength doing so - which saves me $$$ by not going to the gym. Some guys have looped the 2 hydraulic hoses over the top of the pump and installed a reservoir to hold PS fluid (or gear oil) to lube the assembly, which is probably prudent. I didn't and it's still going strong, with no signs of increasing dead center or wear - but I'm also careful to always have vehicle motion before trying to turn the tires...
7) Recommended Fluids for PS - If you get your PS back up and running, DO NOT put PS fluid in it. As crazy as this sounds, if you buy and use Dexron3 Automatic Transmission hydraulic fluid, you'll have fewer problems with leaks. A mechanic that worked on my other cars recommended it after a steering rack replacement on an Infiniti, and he was right - that rack never leaked again.
Hope this helps in some way,
10-22-19, 12:42 AM
#6
Maybe some insights into the SE Power Steering Pump & mechanism from my recent experience;
1) Mazdatrix sells a Power Steering (PS) Pump rebuild kit - but it's actually the rebuild kit for the Power Steering BOX - not the pump. The Box uses recirculating ball just like the manual boxes, but the PS uses the pressure pump to provide hydraulic force to one side of the ball stack or the other to provide power assist. If your PS pump is leaking fluid, it could be due a few things which can be repaired, or it might just be a loose pressure or return line which could be tightened up to stop the leak.
2) Rebuilding the Pump - First off, the pump is a simple off-center rotating disk with vanes which move in slots to pump hydraulic fluid through the pump. This is a sandwich design which must be rebuilt or refurbished attached to the PS Pump Mount, as the front pulley CANNOT BE REMOVED. Don't try - or you'll ruin the pulley and the pump. That said, it's easy enough to remove the bolts which hold the sandwich together, and from there you can see how it all comes apart and goes back together. The O-ring seals are compressed by the sandwich to seal the pump - just like our engines. On reassembly, you'll notice that there's a small C-clip which holds the rotating assembly to the main shaft. There's a thrust washer just before the C-clip that has likely been worn enough to allow significant fore and aft movement of the main shaft - which can allow the shaft to move forward and leak hydraulic fluid under pressure out the front by the Pulley. If this is the case on yours, simply flip the thrust washer over and reinstall the C-clip. This resets the fore and aft dimension and will seal the front bearing of the pump - for awhile (*probably another 100k miles...). Bolt it all back together and install the reservoir, which has a small rubber O-ring to seal it against the pump, and then it's ready to go back in. At this point, also check your PS Idler Pulley to be sure the bearing spins freely and quietly, if not - replace it. Easier to just buy a complete Idler Pulley than the bearing unless you have a press and the experience to do it without damaging the bearing.
3) Rebuilding the PS Box - ***Caveat: I've not done this part, yet***. As stated, Mazdatrix sells the PS Box rebuild kit which includes all the O-rings you need to reseal the Box. This may require removal of the entire steering column (FSM says so), or not (RX7Club!), but would require significant work to get the Box out for bench rebuild, and then you have to remove the ball stack (recirculating ball system) and alternate the shiny ***** with the dull ***** on reinstallation - and it all sounded pretty onerous. If anybody has any experience with that, I'm all ears - I've searched and read multiple posts on this, and it's indeterminate if the entire column must come out.
4) Speed Sensitive Power Steering - There's a solenoid valve on the PS Pump which opens an orifice to allow greater hydraulic fluid flow through the system, resulting in lighter steering. This electrical connection is 2-wire and seems to be all-or-nothing, i.e., when 12v is run to it, the solenoid valve opens and 'boosts' the PS effect. The signal wire for this comes from the ECU, and is likely triggered by engine RPM, but I don't know the specifics on this. Either way, you could switch this to 12v inside the car if you wanted to enable easier parking or faster steering on an Autocross course, I suppose - it's pretty straight forward. If you left it disconnected, you'd still get power steering, just won't get greater assist at low speeds. Mazda designed this to soften the PS effect at higher vehicle speeds for greater stability and control as felt by the driver.
5) Possible solutions - If the hoses are good, you flipped the thrust washer on your pump and reinstalled the C-clip, and it's not leaking anywhere else, your stock pump may be just fine. If you go through the effort to rebuild your Box, I'd be curious to see how difficult that is - so please report back. The stock system is fairly well-designed, but the pumps, brackets, and steering assemblies are different between SA / FB to FC, making simple retrofit of more modern parts more difficult. David Lane had a write-up on this on his site, if it's still active - and he even stated there that he'd never do it again. FOUND IT, so here it is: https://www.nellump.net/peri/power-s...p-upgrade.html
6) My solution - After finding that my Box was what was leaking, I just removed the PS pump belt and called it a day. I may dig into this again at some point in the future, but I've gotten used to manual steering and built up my arm strength doing so - which saves me $$$ by not going to the gym. Some guys have looped the 2 hydraulic hoses over the top of the pump and installed a reservoir to hold PS fluid (or gear oil) to lube the assembly, which is probably prudent. I didn't and it's still going strong, with no signs of increasing dead center or wear - but I'm also careful to always have vehicle motion before trying to turn the tires...
7) Recommended Fluids for PS - If you get your PS back up and running, DO NOT put PS fluid in it. As crazy as this sounds, if you buy and use Dexron3 Automatic Transmission hydraulic fluid, you'll have fewer problems with leaks. A mechanic that worked on my other cars recommended it after a steering rack replacement on an Infiniti, and he was right - that rack never leaked again.
Hope this helps in some way,
1) Mazdatrix sells a Power Steering (PS) Pump rebuild kit - but it's actually the rebuild kit for the Power Steering BOX - not the pump. The Box uses recirculating ball just like the manual boxes, but the PS uses the pressure pump to provide hydraulic force to one side of the ball stack or the other to provide power assist. If your PS pump is leaking fluid, it could be due a few things which can be repaired, or it might just be a loose pressure or return line which could be tightened up to stop the leak.
2) Rebuilding the Pump - First off, the pump is a simple off-center rotating disk with vanes which move in slots to pump hydraulic fluid through the pump. This is a sandwich design which must be rebuilt or refurbished attached to the PS Pump Mount, as the front pulley CANNOT BE REMOVED. Don't try - or you'll ruin the pulley and the pump. That said, it's easy enough to remove the bolts which hold the sandwich together, and from there you can see how it all comes apart and goes back together. The O-ring seals are compressed by the sandwich to seal the pump - just like our engines. On reassembly, you'll notice that there's a small C-clip which holds the rotating assembly to the main shaft. There's a thrust washer just before the C-clip that has likely been worn enough to allow significant fore and aft movement of the main shaft - which can allow the shaft to move forward and leak hydraulic fluid under pressure out the front by the Pulley. If this is the case on yours, simply flip the thrust washer over and reinstall the C-clip. This resets the fore and aft dimension and will seal the front bearing of the pump - for awhile (*probably another 100k miles...). Bolt it all back together and install the reservoir, which has a small rubber O-ring to seal it against the pump, and then it's ready to go back in. At this point, also check your PS Idler Pulley to be sure the bearing spins freely and quietly, if not - replace it. Easier to just buy a complete Idler Pulley than the bearing unless you have a press and the experience to do it without damaging the bearing.
3) Rebuilding the PS Box - ***Caveat: I've not done this part, yet***. As stated, Mazdatrix sells the PS Box rebuild kit which includes all the O-rings you need to reseal the Box. This may require removal of the entire steering column (FSM says so), or not (RX7Club!), but would require significant work to get the Box out for bench rebuild, and then you have to remove the ball stack (recirculating ball system) and alternate the shiny ***** with the dull ***** on reinstallation - and it all sounded pretty onerous. If anybody has any experience with that, I'm all ears - I've searched and read multiple posts on this, and it's indeterminate if the entire column must come out.
4) Speed Sensitive Power Steering - There's a solenoid valve on the PS Pump which opens an orifice to allow greater hydraulic fluid flow through the system, resulting in lighter steering. This electrical connection is 2-wire and seems to be all-or-nothing, i.e., when 12v is run to it, the solenoid valve opens and 'boosts' the PS effect. The signal wire for this comes from the ECU, and is likely triggered by engine RPM, but I don't know the specifics on this. Either way, you could switch this to 12v inside the car if you wanted to enable easier parking or faster steering on an Autocross course, I suppose - it's pretty straight forward. If you left it disconnected, you'd still get power steering, just won't get greater assist at low speeds. Mazda designed this to soften the PS effect at higher vehicle speeds for greater stability and control as felt by the driver.
5) Possible solutions - If the hoses are good, you flipped the thrust washer on your pump and reinstalled the C-clip, and it's not leaking anywhere else, your stock pump may be just fine. If you go through the effort to rebuild your Box, I'd be curious to see how difficult that is - so please report back. The stock system is fairly well-designed, but the pumps, brackets, and steering assemblies are different between SA / FB to FC, making simple retrofit of more modern parts more difficult. David Lane had a write-up on this on his site, if it's still active - and he even stated there that he'd never do it again. FOUND IT, so here it is: https://www.nellump.net/peri/power-s...p-upgrade.html
6) My solution - After finding that my Box was what was leaking, I just removed the PS pump belt and called it a day. I may dig into this again at some point in the future, but I've gotten used to manual steering and built up my arm strength doing so - which saves me $$$ by not going to the gym. Some guys have looped the 2 hydraulic hoses over the top of the pump and installed a reservoir to hold PS fluid (or gear oil) to lube the assembly, which is probably prudent. I didn't and it's still going strong, with no signs of increasing dead center or wear - but I'm also careful to always have vehicle motion before trying to turn the tires...
7) Recommended Fluids for PS - If you get your PS back up and running, DO NOT put PS fluid in it. As crazy as this sounds, if you buy and use Dexron3 Automatic Transmission hydraulic fluid, you'll have fewer problems with leaks. A mechanic that worked on my other cars recommended it after a steering rack replacement on an Infiniti, and he was right - that rack never leaked again.
Hope this helps in some way,
Thank you ill keep digging. I know i can swap a s4 complete power steering unit with brackets into the car. Worst case thats what i will go with.
10-22-19, 09:07 AM
#7
84SE-EGI helpy-helperton
You rebuilt the pump, but did you rebuild the box? Sounds like the box is bypassing high pressure fluid back through the low pressure side into the reservoir on shutdown, which could be bad O-rings on the shuttle - or piston assembly - as Mazda calls it. The shuttle is what moves back and forth via the ball stack.
As mentioned above, I didn't have this problem, just fluid escaping the box requiring me to add ATF every other day and leaving stains everywhere I parked.
As mentioned above, I didn't have this problem, just fluid escaping the box requiring me to add ATF every other day and leaving stains everywhere I parked.
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10-22-19, 09:08 AM
#8
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the rebuild kit for the pump is HB40-32-610, Mazda USA does not have any, but it looks like it might be available, you would just have to wait
the box is FA55-32-180, or UB40-32-180, its the same as the 80's trucks, its NLA from Mazda
the box is FA55-32-180, or UB40-32-180, its the same as the 80's trucks, its NLA from Mazda
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