abnormal electrical strangeness
01-26-15, 09:17 PM
#1
abnormal electrical strangeness
So i mentioned in a thread not long ago that my defrost light on the instrument cluster illuminates while using the turn signals. Now all of a sudden every light flashes on the cluster. Brake, gen, head, def, oil level, coolant etc. All flash when you hit the turn signals and hazard. The relays on the driver shock towerer all click quite loudly. When you unplug the cluster the relays stop clicking and signals go back to normal. Anyone had this happen? Im hoping its not the cluster. How would the relays in the engine bay all be affected by the gauge cluster?
01-27-15, 09:58 AM
#2
After some further testing...
-when nothing is on, hazard button pressed = idiot lights flash, brake lights flash in place of yellow lenses in rear
-with key in ON position, headlights on, hazards on = idiot lights flash, all exterior lights flash, fuel pump flashes (WTF?) This explains why the car lost power and died coming onto the interstate the other day...
-With CD player unplugged = no change (This was installed by me 2 weeks ago so I had a hunch it could be the cause of all this, but no change when removed. It is wired through the stock 12V switched Clarion wire for switched power, and the Cigar lighter for 12v constant).
-With the cluster unplugged = relays in engine compartment stop clicking, brake lights still flash in place of rear yellow lenses. Flash speed slows down significantly.
-With flasher unit unplugged everything is normal as if the hazards are not on. (Obviously non-functional signals and hazards).
SO... Something is creating large problems here and I dont know where to start. Things that could be the problem that I should replace...
-flasher unit
-Choke check relay
-Main relay (the loudest clicks come from this one)
-hazard / turn signal / wiper switch
-headlight switch
Thoughts?
-when nothing is on, hazard button pressed = idiot lights flash, brake lights flash in place of yellow lenses in rear
-with key in ON position, headlights on, hazards on = idiot lights flash, all exterior lights flash, fuel pump flashes (WTF?) This explains why the car lost power and died coming onto the interstate the other day...
-With CD player unplugged = no change (This was installed by me 2 weeks ago so I had a hunch it could be the cause of all this, but no change when removed. It is wired through the stock 12V switched Clarion wire for switched power, and the Cigar lighter for 12v constant).
-With the cluster unplugged = relays in engine compartment stop clicking, brake lights still flash in place of rear yellow lenses. Flash speed slows down significantly.
-With flasher unit unplugged everything is normal as if the hazards are not on. (Obviously non-functional signals and hazards).
SO... Something is creating large problems here and I dont know where to start. Things that could be the problem that I should replace...
-flasher unit
-Choke check relay
-Main relay (the loudest clicks come from this one)
-hazard / turn signal / wiper switch
-headlight switch
Thoughts?
01-27-15, 09:58 AM
#3
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i've seen stuff like this, and it usually turns out to be a bad ground. if the normal ground isn't available, the electricity will go a different way, and this can cause odd stuff. i'd look in the turn signal circuit
01-27-15, 10:02 AM
#4
Another test I did...
I thought it could be my LED lighting causing problems so I removed every LED bulb and no change. I have 4 LED 194 bulbs in the cluster, and 2 LED 194 bulbs for the cigar light and HVAC display. With them removed, no change...
I thought it could be my LED lighting causing problems so I removed every LED bulb and no change. I have 4 LED 194 bulbs in the cluster, and 2 LED 194 bulbs for the cigar light and HVAC display. With them removed, no change...
01-27-15, 12:55 PM
#6
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how about in the actual lights? how can it flash the brake lights? do those even share any wiring anywhere?
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01-30-15, 12:53 PM
#8
Installed a second filter before the carb to see fuel as it enters the carb. You can tell when I turn the signals on and off when the level sloshes around. Check out these fuel pressure fluctuations in this video when I use the turn signals...
01-30-15, 01:38 PM
#9
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It really sounds like you have a bad ground somewhere, check all the main grounds. It kinda sucks, but its worth it to ensure all the grounds are sufficient, otherwise crazy things like this will happen often, and you may think other parts are the cause.
01-31-15, 03:47 AM
#12
-Are the battery cables newish? Old/original cables can be a source of all sorts of electrical gremlins that miraculously "disappear" with new cables. Asking for trouble with 35yr old cables….
-there is a wire w/a fusible link under the steering column in, I believe, the ignition harness. Is it OK?
-battery cables, esp ground, all solidly tightened at all ends?
-get the OE Electric manual (is it IN the Shop manual in the 79?? Its separate in the 80+ books), might have more useful detail than Haynes
Whatever it is, will LOVE to hear what it ends up being!!!
'Luck. Electric stuff can SUCK.
Stu Aull
80GS
Alaska
-there is a wire w/a fusible link under the steering column in, I believe, the ignition harness. Is it OK?
-battery cables, esp ground, all solidly tightened at all ends?
-get the OE Electric manual (is it IN the Shop manual in the 79?? Its separate in the 80+ books), might have more useful detail than Haynes
Whatever it is, will LOVE to hear what it ends up being!!!
'Luck. Electric stuff can SUCK.
Stu Aull
80GS
Alaska
01-31-15, 11:21 AM
#13
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a short to ground should blow a fuse, but you seem to have a situation where the power is finding a different ground, and its going through something else to do it
02-02-15, 09:23 AM
#21
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02-02-15, 09:49 AM
#22
Or maybe try to mix the N304 GSL-SE part number with the SA stuff creatively? Only hardcore rotroheads like us would get it. 
By the way, do you have a GSL-SE distributor? They have a different advance curve compared to the 12A versions. Look for N304 on the dizzy housing.
By the way, do you have a GSL-SE distributor? They have a different advance curve compared to the 12A versions. Look for N304 on the dizzy housing.
02-02-15, 12:57 PM
#23
No... I have the 80 unit still. I thought I could just adjust timing? One more part to source...
I say I have everything, but I still need an oil pan, dizzy, SE fuel pump, and variable resister. A SE dash harness would be nice as well as it would make it easier to build my custom GSL-SA dash harness.
Mazdatrix says I can use my 12A pickup tube. I plan on buying a new pan from them. Also, will my 80 oil level sender fit the SE pan? Since they dont come with one new.
I say I have everything, but I still need an oil pan, dizzy, SE fuel pump, and variable resister. A SE dash harness would be nice as well as it would make it easier to build my custom GSL-SA dash harness.
Mazdatrix says I can use my 12A pickup tube. I plan on buying a new pan from them. Also, will my 80 oil level sender fit the SE pan? Since they dont come with one new.
02-02-15, 04:37 PM
#24
I might have the mounting bracket for a variable resistor from my SE. I went carbed. 
I'll have to take a look to see what brackets and crap I have left. Actually I might also have the special GSL-SE passenger side radiator bracket frame thing with the oval hole and the long plastic air inlet tube that fits in front of the radiator.
As for the fuel pump, you could do what I did. Get an MSD 2225 pump. It's a pretty good EFI fuel pump that mounts under the car and isn't too loud. Stay away from Walbro as those put out too much base pressure and will cause flooding problems.
You will want to possibly upgrade your fuel return line to 5/16" under the car, but then you might get away with squeezing down to 1/4" as it goes into the tank. That's what PercentSevenC did on his white car and it seemed to work. Actually on his other car, the red one, we swapped in a complete S4 NA setup with ECU, kinda similar to what you're doing, just one year newer, with the MSD pump, and we kept the stock 1/4" return line under the car. Infact we simply adapted the 5/16" outlet from the rail down to 1/4" hose up in the engine bay to connect to the stock return line. It seemed to work ok too. I don't think it led to any flooding problems. But then these stock setups tend to flood easily if you fire it up for a minute to move the car, then shut it down before it had a chance to warm up. My brother's stock GSL-SE flooded easily when he'd do that.
Yes the 12A pickup tube will work. I think the oil level sensor will also work as it uses three bolts or screws in 6mm x 1.0 thread. Be sure to get the o-ring to prevent a slow oil drip.
As for the dash harness, I don't know what that is, but on Percent's red car, it's an 84 GSL with the round harness hole on the passenger side. We removed the N249 ECU (12A) and swapped in the N326 ECU on the existing bracket under the carpet. Your 80 will be different I'm sure. As for the harness, the FC dash harness which contained ignition wires had to be rerouted through the passenger hole. your 80 won't need to deal with most of that I don't think, and your stock ignition wires can be retained, however the SE has a special shielded RPM measuring wire on the trailing coil's (-) terminal that goes to the ECU. It's how the N304 ECU gets its RPM signal. You will need to add this wire. Find the pin on the ECU harness connector, make it shielded if it isn't (or extend the shieled wire or coaxial cable or whatever it is), run it to the trailing coil.
Your throttle cable will require a custom bracket like I had to make for the S4 TB. Just a bit of 1/8" mild steel bent and drilled in a careful way is what I had to do. Sorry, no pics exist. I don't know if Mazdatrix still sells the GSL-SE cable so you gotta make a bracket to account for the different length cable vs sheath and position of the TB vs a carb. Does that make sense?
I'll have to take a look to see what brackets and crap I have left. Actually I might also have the special GSL-SE passenger side radiator bracket frame thing with the oval hole and the long plastic air inlet tube that fits in front of the radiator.As for the fuel pump, you could do what I did. Get an MSD 2225 pump. It's a pretty good EFI fuel pump that mounts under the car and isn't too loud. Stay away from Walbro as those put out too much base pressure and will cause flooding problems.
You will want to possibly upgrade your fuel return line to 5/16" under the car, but then you might get away with squeezing down to 1/4" as it goes into the tank. That's what PercentSevenC did on his white car and it seemed to work. Actually on his other car, the red one, we swapped in a complete S4 NA setup with ECU, kinda similar to what you're doing, just one year newer, with the MSD pump, and we kept the stock 1/4" return line under the car. Infact we simply adapted the 5/16" outlet from the rail down to 1/4" hose up in the engine bay to connect to the stock return line. It seemed to work ok too. I don't think it led to any flooding problems. But then these stock setups tend to flood easily if you fire it up for a minute to move the car, then shut it down before it had a chance to warm up. My brother's stock GSL-SE flooded easily when he'd do that.
Yes the 12A pickup tube will work. I think the oil level sensor will also work as it uses three bolts or screws in 6mm x 1.0 thread. Be sure to get the o-ring to prevent a slow oil drip.
As for the dash harness, I don't know what that is, but on Percent's red car, it's an 84 GSL with the round harness hole on the passenger side. We removed the N249 ECU (12A) and swapped in the N326 ECU on the existing bracket under the carpet. Your 80 will be different I'm sure. As for the harness, the FC dash harness which contained ignition wires had to be rerouted through the passenger hole. your 80 won't need to deal with most of that I don't think, and your stock ignition wires can be retained, however the SE has a special shielded RPM measuring wire on the trailing coil's (-) terminal that goes to the ECU. It's how the N304 ECU gets its RPM signal. You will need to add this wire. Find the pin on the ECU harness connector, make it shielded if it isn't (or extend the shieled wire or coaxial cable or whatever it is), run it to the trailing coil.
Your throttle cable will require a custom bracket like I had to make for the S4 TB. Just a bit of 1/8" mild steel bent and drilled in a careful way is what I had to do. Sorry, no pics exist. I don't know if Mazdatrix still sells the GSL-SE cable so you gotta make a bracket to account for the different length cable vs sheath and position of the TB vs a carb. Does that make sense?
02-03-15, 12:22 AM
#25
Well its been a long day... First I dropped the tank and got it scrubbed down and flushed out. Not perfect, but worlds better. After that I waited for my special package from Atkins, then the fun began. The engine build! The only thing that stumped me on this one is that you have to install the apex seal and spring as a unit. 12A I have always Vaselined the seals to the rotor tips then dropped the rotor in place and pushed the springs in separate. on the 13b when I did that the spring kept catching on the 2nd ridge about 90% down the rotor.
This engine seems to make great compression. The housings have zero flake. I also decided to go with new oil control ring springs, FD corner seal springs, and corner buttons on this one. I can already see the difference! After it was all buttoned up end play was at a perfect 0.0020.
This engine seems to make great compression. The housings have zero flake. I also decided to go with new oil control ring springs, FD corner seal springs, and corner buttons on this one. I can already see the difference! After it was all buttoned up end play was at a perfect 0.0020.