89 13b non turbo into 85 GS.... need howto
10-12-02, 05:09 PM
#26
FD > FB > FC
Thread Starter
wait a sec.....
just the engine block from the 89??? what about the intake manifold? exaust manifold? and just about everything else??
Now i'm really confused... in this post people have said i will use nothing from the 85.... then others say I will use nothing from the 89????
Mabey if some one could write a simple step by step proceedure I could work off of IE (remove engine, attach this, attach that, remove this, etc...)
Now I'm going to use the auto trans just fro a little while... basically untill i'm comfortable with the feel of the car untill I go to a stick. (i dont know how to drive a stick yet anyway...LOL) It should just bolt on?
And in one of the later replies, the idea was given of using the 89 tranny. Someone else allready said there was no way in hell that I could get it in there very easily becaus efo the mountings...
If someone could clear all this up and write (even a little) part of a simple proceedure for the swap that would be really great!
just the engine block from the 89??? what about the intake manifold? exaust manifold? and just about everything else??
Now i'm really confused... in this post people have said i will use nothing from the 85.... then others say I will use nothing from the 89????
Mabey if some one could write a simple step by step proceedure I could work off of IE (remove engine, attach this, attach that, remove this, etc...)
Now I'm going to use the auto trans just fro a little while... basically untill i'm comfortable with the feel of the car untill I go to a stick. (i dont know how to drive a stick yet anyway...LOL) It should just bolt on?
And in one of the later replies, the idea was given of using the 89 tranny. Someone else allready said there was no way in hell that I could get it in there very easily becaus efo the mountings...
If someone could clear all this up and write (even a little) part of a simple proceedure for the swap that would be really great!
10-12-02, 05:54 PM
#27
okay ... i have nothing better to do right now, so you're in luck 
as everyone has said so far, all you NEED from the 89 car is the engine. take it with the intake and exhaust manifolds still attached, that way if you get a Dell'Orto for the 86-92 13B, your lower manifold will be there. also, if you run out of money, like i did - then you can "bitch-up" and ghetto exhaust system using the manifold.
unless you decide to torture yourself with spend countless hours with wiring looms and such, you should be using a carbie with the 89 motor. otherwise, i won't be much help ...
your 89 motor needs the following:
- oil pan
- oil pick up tube
- front cover
- engine mounting bracket
- distributor
apart from the distributor which you can use from the 12A. it would be EASIEST if you can get all of these parts from a GSL-SE, but it's not 100% necessary.
in addition to those parts, you'll need:
- a block-off plate (for that crap on the center housing, i think it has to do with the EGR system)
- fuel injection plugs (but if you don't mind being a little ghetto, then just take out the injectors, lay two dimes flat in the hole and put some hi-temp silicone over them)
these parts you can get from Racing Beat or Mazdatrix.
when you get those part i've mentioned, it's pretty self-explanatory. you're just gonna swap the ones already on the 89 engine for the ones that you acquire, but trust me the swap is not that big a deal ... it's not rocket science.
when you've put all those parts on the 13B, it will be ready to go into the engine bay. (you're in luck because your chassis was equipped with an automatic, so you won't have to play around with the driver's side mount like i did.) it will slide right in - no worries!
intake and exhaust configurations are totally up to you. i don't know your budget, so i will assume it will take you a while to locate and purchase a carbie for the motor ... so just wait and get the exhaust, too.
that 13B will bolt up to whichever FB tranny you get. the only word of caution is keep in mind that the driveshafts from some years are different (the tail end that bolts to the rear) i forget which years are compatible, so don't hold me to this, but i believe it's 81-83 different from 84-85. i don't know if you can use the tail end off your automatic's driveshaft if you happen to get an 81-83 tranny and shaft because i've never had to deal with an automatic before. i guess the best thing would to do your best to find an 84-85 tranny/shaft - then there's no need to guess and find out that it won't work.
i've never had to do a tranny conversion before, so i may be missing parts but i think all you'll need are:
- master cylinder
- slave cylinder
- pedal assembly
- lines
- fork
- throw-out bearing
- starter
and of course, to remember you're buying your future clutches for an 89, not an 85
i think that's it. but you're lucky to have offers from so many around you to help out, so if i were you, i'd take them up on it. i've never actualy met any of these guys (redwood, moremazda, rx7passion, etc.) but i believe they are respectable based solely on my interaction with them on this forum ... and based on their cars, it's safe to say they know what they're doing.
as everyone has said so far, all you NEED from the 89 car is the engine. take it with the intake and exhaust manifolds still attached, that way if you get a Dell'Orto for the 86-92 13B, your lower manifold will be there. also, if you run out of money, like i did - then you can "bitch-up" and ghetto exhaust system using the manifold.
unless you decide to torture yourself with spend countless hours with wiring looms and such, you should be using a carbie with the 89 motor. otherwise, i won't be much help ...
your 89 motor needs the following:
- oil pan
- oil pick up tube
- front cover
- engine mounting bracket
- distributor
apart from the distributor which you can use from the 12A. it would be EASIEST if you can get all of these parts from a GSL-SE, but it's not 100% necessary.
in addition to those parts, you'll need:
- a block-off plate (for that crap on the center housing, i think it has to do with the EGR system)
- fuel injection plugs (but if you don't mind being a little ghetto, then just take out the injectors, lay two dimes flat in the hole and put some hi-temp silicone over them)
these parts you can get from Racing Beat or Mazdatrix.
when you get those part i've mentioned, it's pretty self-explanatory. you're just gonna swap the ones already on the 89 engine for the ones that you acquire, but trust me the swap is not that big a deal ... it's not rocket science.
when you've put all those parts on the 13B, it will be ready to go into the engine bay. (you're in luck because your chassis was equipped with an automatic, so you won't have to play around with the driver's side mount like i did.) it will slide right in - no worries!
intake and exhaust configurations are totally up to you. i don't know your budget, so i will assume it will take you a while to locate and purchase a carbie for the motor ... so just wait and get the exhaust, too.
that 13B will bolt up to whichever FB tranny you get. the only word of caution is keep in mind that the driveshafts from some years are different (the tail end that bolts to the rear) i forget which years are compatible, so don't hold me to this, but i believe it's 81-83 different from 84-85. i don't know if you can use the tail end off your automatic's driveshaft if you happen to get an 81-83 tranny and shaft because i've never had to deal with an automatic before. i guess the best thing would to do your best to find an 84-85 tranny/shaft - then there's no need to guess and find out that it won't work.
i've never had to do a tranny conversion before, so i may be missing parts but i think all you'll need are:
- master cylinder
- slave cylinder
- pedal assembly
- lines
- fork
- throw-out bearing
- starter
and of course, to remember you're buying your future clutches for an 89, not an 85
i think that's it. but you're lucky to have offers from so many around you to help out, so if i were you, i'd take them up on it. i've never actualy met any of these guys (redwood, moremazda, rx7passion, etc.) but i believe they are respectable based solely on my interaction with them on this forum ... and based on their cars, it's safe to say they know what they're doing.
10-12-02, 09:26 PM
#28
Super Newbie
The driveshaft bolt pattern on the pinion flange changed in 83. So its 79-82, then 83-85. 83 is kind of a mutt year.
Good luck getting a stock Nikki carb to work on a 6 port 13B. The 12A intake won't fit. You might be able to buy the RB Holley intake and maybe find an adapter for the Nikki bolt pattern. I dunno.
Good luck getting a stock Nikki carb to work on a 6 port 13B. The 12A intake won't fit. You might be able to buy the RB Holley intake and maybe find an adapter for the Nikki bolt pattern. I dunno.
10-13-02, 03:57 AM
#29
I've never seen a stock 12A carb set-up on a 13B... but you stated before that there is an adapter plate you can purchase so anythings possible. I've seen the SAME dellorto carb w/a adapter plate work on both a 12A and a 13b.
Sooo... if you CAN buy an adapterplate to use the 12A intake and carb on the 13B motor then you don't need the 89' intake and etc. But take it like diabolical says in case later you get a diffrent carb set-up.
You could most certianly use the 89 transmission... All automatic cars have diffrent mounting points than stick cars do... but it's a REAL SIMPLE fabrication to make it work.
The *motor... *oilcooler... *flywheel/counterweight... exhaust manifold(optional)... 2injectors(optional)... and fuelrail to hold the injectors(optional)... is ALL you need from the 89' if your'e going carbed.
Sooo... if you CAN buy an adapterplate to use the 12A intake and carb on the 13B motor then you don't need the 89' intake and etc. But take it like diabolical says in case later you get a diffrent carb set-up.
You could most certianly use the 89 transmission... All automatic cars have diffrent mounting points than stick cars do... but it's a REAL SIMPLE fabrication to make it work.
The *motor... *oilcooler... *flywheel/counterweight... exhaust manifold(optional)... 2injectors(optional)... and fuelrail to hold the injectors(optional)... is ALL you need from the 89' if your'e going carbed.
LOL
10-13-02, 11:03 AM
#31
actually, yeah ... let me amend my post by adding ... take the oil cooler and lines from the 89 as well. i just read 85tiidevil's post, and realized that i forgot all about the important oil cooler issue.
also, you'll find out sooner or later that you'll want to use the 85 water pump on the 89 engine ... for simplicity's sake.
on this Nikki carb-stuff. i will not come outright and say that they don't exist, but i have never seen an adaper plate for 12A-to-13B (6PI) ... the only one's i've seen are for 4-port 13B's.
at any rate, i would STRONGLY recommend AGAINST trying to use the Nikki with your engine. just wait until you can get a Weber, Dell'Orto or Holley.
NOTE:
the only thing to be a little leary of with the Dell is that you get it for a Gen II car because the upper manifold had a different bolt pattern for the 12A and GSL-SE lower manifolds. i'm not sure if the upper manifold for the Gen II cars is still available or not, but you can easily check it out at www.racingbeat.com (just go to the 86-92 section and choose from the drop-down menu)
also, you'll find out sooner or later that you'll want to use the 85 water pump on the 89 engine ... for simplicity's sake.
on this Nikki carb-stuff. i will not come outright and say that they don't exist, but i have never seen an adaper plate for 12A-to-13B (6PI) ... the only one's i've seen are for 4-port 13B's.
at any rate, i would STRONGLY recommend AGAINST trying to use the Nikki with your engine. just wait until you can get a Weber, Dell'Orto or Holley.
NOTE:
the only thing to be a little leary of with the Dell is that you get it for a Gen II car because the upper manifold had a different bolt pattern for the 12A and GSL-SE lower manifolds. i'm not sure if the upper manifold for the Gen II cars is still available or not, but you can easily check it out at www.racingbeat.com (just go to the 86-92 section and choose from the drop-down menu)
10-13-02, 01:48 PM
#33
Originally posted by Manntis
wouldn't it be far simpler and in the long run cheaper to buy a GSL-SE that already came with a 13B? Especially if this is your only car.
wouldn't it be far simpler and in the long run cheaper to buy a GSL-SE that already came with a 13B? Especially if this is your only car.
10-13-02, 02:29 PM
#34
Rotary Freak
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I'd look for a aftermarket upper intake manifold that will just bolt to the stock 89 lower if you must go carb. This way you won't have any missmatched ports. Or better yet run the FI from the 89 and get a 13b header/exhaust for the -SE and put it on there. I would guess that you would have somewhere ~170hp with that combo. Not bad for a light little GS.
and get a 13b header/exhaust for the -SE and put it on there. I would guess that you would have somewhere ~170hp with that combo. Not bad for a light little GS.
10-15-02, 03:57 PM
#35
FD > FB > FC
Thread Starter
Well I would like to go with the RB holley intake and carb.... I just dont have the money now. I'll probably put it in in a month or so. In the mean time, is there an inexpensive temp solution for the intake delima?
10-15-02, 08:00 PM
#37
FD > FB > FC
Thread Starter
someone else mentioned a way to use the 12a carb... with a adapter plate. Would this work just to get the car home from school? Where could I find such a plate?
11-27-02, 09:55 PM
#38
i say what i want
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Originally posted by Manntis
wouldn't it be far simpler and in the long run cheaper to buy a GSL-SE that already came with a 13B? Especially if this is your only car.
wouldn't it be far simpler and in the long run cheaper to buy a GSL-SE that already came with a 13B? Especially if this is your only car.
i plan on doing this swap (still gathering info to see how possible it is). but the main thing im doing it for is the fact... i can build the motor, and streetport it, racing beat header, to my current exhaust, ported intake.. i think ill be somwehre close to 200hp? with those mods on a 12a, i think it would be ALOT less..
how much of a bitch do yall think it would be to keep the efi? i want to do this because i want fuel injection.. but if its goign to be really bad, ill just get a carb. i have all the wiring already because my dad has a 13b in his car (which now is powered by chevy) all i really need is the motor.. and various other things..
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