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So gone are the days of Respeed and FC parts such as a complete front subframe are getting harder to come by.
What option do we have for rack and pinion conversions?
Would trying to retrofit a rack off another rear steer vehicle be the easiest option?
FC subframes are not too hard to come by. Post a wanted ad in the 2nd gen parts section if you want. I got the subframe, rack, hubs, spindles, and control arms shipped to me for less than $350 and I'm in the process of swapping it now
The steering is definitely the weakest part of the FB design in terms of driving experience, but frankly trying to mod the steering to R&P is likely not going to be worth it unless you have a pile of money you're willing to light on fire. Before you cast judgement, try replacing your idler arm, pitman arm, and tie rod ends. Be sure to take a picture of how far up on the sector shaft the pitman arm is before you remove it, it doesn't go all the way and it takes a lot of torque to get the new one on. Once you have new ball joints from these components, you can make some adjustments at the steering gear. It'll never be as good as R&P but if you're dealing with awful steering, it can get much, much better with some TLC.
I can't help you with finding options, but I can tell you that the CP Racing kit that I installed nearly 20 years ago transformed the car's steering and is still working great today. I've replaced just about everything in this car, only the unibody and some interior parts are still original and the steering is the upgrade that I enjoy the most.
The steering is definitely the weakest part of the FB design in terms of driving experience, but frankly trying to mod the steering to R&P is likely not going to be worth it unless you have a pile of money you're willing to light on fire. Before you cast judgement, try replacing your idler arm, pitman arm, and tie rod ends. Be sure to take a picture of how far up on the sector shaft the pitman arm is before you remove it, it doesn't go all the way and it takes a lot of torque to get the new one on. Once you have new ball joints from these components, you can make some adjustments at the steering gear. It'll never be as good as R&P but if you're dealing with awful steering, it can get much, much better with some TLC.
This is true but I don't think I will be happy with the end result. I'd prefer to buy once cry once and just do the rack and pinion conversion. The FSM says 1 inch of play is within tolerances and I don't think that's good enough for a sports car.
I can't help you with finding options, but I can tell you that the CP Racing kit that I installed nearly 20 years ago transformed the car's steering and is still working great today. I've replaced just about everything in this car, only the unibody and some interior parts are still original and the steering is the upgrade that I enjoy the most.
I wish these kits were still available... I'm currently trying to track down a 2nd gen front subframe to do a swap.
FC subframes are not too hard to come by. Post a wanted ad in the 2nd gen parts section if you want. I got the subframe, rack, hubs, spindles, and control arms shipped to me for less than $350 and I'm in the process of swapping it now
That's a crazy deal!!!! I'll give you $400 for it hahaha. I posted on the want to buy so I'll see what comes of it. Good luck with your conversion.
I found a company called blacktie motors that sells a mustang 2 conversion for our cars. I have been considering this conversion but cannot find any reviews on it.
There's a recent thread about R&P's here somewhere that compares the BT kit to the old Respeed kit. I talked to BT for a while about it but they never really answered my questions. PJ brought up a good point about the Ackerman angle being wrong, which would cause the inside tire to scrub badly on sharp turns. Well engineered steering takes this into acount with proper angles. Again, BT never answered my questions about this. You could be the guinea pig and tell us how it works!
You would think that if they sold the kit there would be a car that they used for development and testing to ensure that it worked properly and gave desired results.
I found a company called blacktie motors that sells a mustang 2 conversion for our cars. I have been considering this conversion but cannot find any reviews on it.
The deal breaker for me buying the BT kit was that not one person that bought their kit would give a review on here. If there kit was any good they would tell their satisfied customers to go on here and tell everyone about it. They would make more money selling them. But i also came to the conclusion by looking at the photos they sent me that the whole kit was sketchy. I thought for sure i could do something better than what they offered for $1k.
I found a company called blacktie motors that sells a mustang 2 conversion for our cars. I have been considering this conversion but cannot find any reviews on it.
That looks like a pretty solid solution to me. I don't like that you'd lose AC and it's close to the engine mount, but it keeps the rack centered. As to Ackerman, I have actually checked it on my kit and the wheels do follow the appropriate arcs. The big down side is that the Mustang II rack is just as slow as the stock system and it should really be a little faster.
That looks like a pretty solid solution to me. I don't like that you'd lose AC and it's close to the engine mount, but it keeps the rack centered. As to Ackerman, I have actually checked it on my kit and the wheels do follow the appropriate arcs. The big down side is that the Mustang II rack is just as slow as the stock system and it should really be a little faster.
The Blacktie site says you can choose the ratio of the rack when you order. What's the ratio of the stock rack???
How did you check the Ackerman of the blacktie kit? Have you got one?
There's a recent thread about R&P's here somewhere that compares the BT kit to the old Respeed kit. I talked to BT for a while about it but they never really answered my questions. PJ brought up a good point about the Ackerman angle being wrong, which would cause the inside tire to scrub badly on sharp turns. Well engineered steering takes this into acount with proper angles. Again, BT never answered my questions about this. You could be the guinea pig and tell us how it works!
that photo. I think I'll have to be the Guinea pig in this situation. I don't really see any other options without doing a full FC subframe swap. It is very very strange that no reviews of the blacktie product are available.
The Blacktie site says you can choose the ratio of the rack when you order. What's the ratio of the stock rack???
Again, I've got the gen2 CP Racing kit, you'd have to be an old-timer like me to know what it was, but it's similar to the Blackfire kit.
I'm sure that info is on the board somewhere. But It's clear that the steering ratio is the same, the lock to lock turns weren't changed and the turning circle didn't change.
Originally Posted by Hugehuman
How did you check the Ackerman of the blacktie kit? Have you got one?
Ackermann is pretty easy to check. Get out in a large area, turn your wheel all the way over and draw out a straight line from the rear axle and the axle line of the two front wheels and see if all three intersect at the same point. If they don't you'll be getting scrub from your from tires every time you turn, which significantly reduces grip and predictability.
Doesnt the cp racing kit have the rack behind the crossmember instead of in front like the blacktie kit. I think it uses a vw rear steer rack or dodge omi.
Doesnt the cp racing kit have the rack behind the crossmember instead of in front like the blacktie kit. I think it uses a vw rear steer rack or dodge omi.
Doesnt the cp racing kit have the rack behind the crossmember instead of in front like the blacktie kit. I think it uses a vw rear steer rack or dodge omi.
I sent black tie a message asking about more information on the kit with the link to this post. Hopefully they could stop in and drop a little bit of information pertaining to their kit or maybe the development car that the kit was originally built or designed on.
I sent black tie a message asking about more information on the kit with the link to this post. Hopefully they could stop in and drop a little bit of information pertaining to their kit or maybe the development car that the kit was originally built or designed on.
Thank you!! Let's see what happens. If they continue to be shady about the product info then we know something is up.
Doesnt the cp racing kit have the rack behind the crossmember instead of in front like the blacktie kit. I think it uses a vw rear steer rack or dodge omi.
Yes the black tie kit uses a front steer mustang2 rack. The CP racing kit is rear steer dodge omni rack. Curious how the cp racing kit clears the oil pan and how it connects to the steering shaft. Any one have some pics of the cp racing kit installed
I sent black tie a message asking about more information on the kit with the link to this post. Hopefully they could stop in and drop a little bit of information pertaining to their kit or maybe the development car that the kit was originally built or designed on.
05-01-19, 11:22 AM
that photo. I think I'll have to be the Guinea pig in this situation. I don't really see any other options without doing a full FC subframe swap. It is very very strange that no reviews of the blacktie product are available.