81-85 Headliner repair????
09-02-11, 01:29 PM
#1
Why am I doing this?
Thread Starter
81-85 Headliner repair????
Has anybody ever figured out a wat to repair or replace the headliner in an 81-85? My 83's vinyl is perfect, not sagging, no tears, but the hardboard backing itself around the sunroof cutout has drooped....trying to come up with a plan to make it look decent.....any ideas???? Thanks....
09-02-11, 02:53 PM
#2
OEMs are using mating dual lock pads affixed to the headliner and the roof structure or magnets affixed to the headliner which net out on the roof sheet metal structure.
If using dual lock, I'd lean toward a fastener-type system with physically-retained fasteners vs. a peel-and-stick approach, due to high interior temps. The two mating fasteners snap into a hole or slot in the sheet metal and a hole or slot in a metal structure which is affixed to the back of the headliner. If no sheet metal holes exist or cannot be made, you could adhere them with an appropriate hot melt adhesive. Due to high interior temps, you'll want an adhesive which does not soften much below 85C. I'd use something like an aggressive 3M 400 or 500-series dual lock fastener. Poke around here to learn more: www.3m.com/DualLock
Magnets can be found in various strengths, sizes, and with various plastic housings which can be adhered to the headliner with hot melt adhesive. Once again, due to high temps, you'll want a high performance adhesive.
Both magnets and dual lock allow you to service the headliner in the future, if needed.
Mike
If using dual lock, I'd lean toward a fastener-type system with physically-retained fasteners vs. a peel-and-stick approach, due to high interior temps. The two mating fasteners snap into a hole or slot in the sheet metal and a hole or slot in a metal structure which is affixed to the back of the headliner. If no sheet metal holes exist or cannot be made, you could adhere them with an appropriate hot melt adhesive. Due to high interior temps, you'll want an adhesive which does not soften much below 85C. I'd use something like an aggressive 3M 400 or 500-series dual lock fastener. Poke around here to learn more: www.3m.com/DualLock
Magnets can be found in various strengths, sizes, and with various plastic housings which can be adhered to the headliner with hot melt adhesive. Once again, due to high temps, you'll want a high performance adhesive.
Both magnets and dual lock allow you to service the headliner in the future, if needed.
Mike
09-02-11, 04:59 PM
#3
Why am I doing this?
Thread Starter
OEMs are using mating dual lock pads affixed to the headliner and the roof structure or magnets affixed to the headliner which net out on the roof sheet metal structure.
If using dual lock, I'd lean toward a fastener-type system with physically-retained fasteners vs. a peel-and-stick approach, due to high interior temps. The two mating fasteners snap into a hole or slot in the sheet metal and a hole or slot in a metal structure which is affixed to the back of the headliner. If no sheet metal holes exist or cannot be made, you could adhere them with an appropriate hot melt adhesive. Due to high interior temps, you'll want an adhesive which does not soften much below 85C. I'd use something like an aggressive 3M 400 or 500-series dual lock fastener. Poke around here to learn more: www.3m.com/DualLock
Magnets can be found in various strengths, sizes, and with various plastic housings which can be adhered to the headliner with hot melt adhesive. Once again, due to high temps, you'll want a high performance adhesive.
Both magnets and dual lock allow you to service the headliner in the future, if needed.
Mike
If using dual lock, I'd lean toward a fastener-type system with physically-retained fasteners vs. a peel-and-stick approach, due to high interior temps. The two mating fasteners snap into a hole or slot in the sheet metal and a hole or slot in a metal structure which is affixed to the back of the headliner. If no sheet metal holes exist or cannot be made, you could adhere them with an appropriate hot melt adhesive. Due to high interior temps, you'll want an adhesive which does not soften much below 85C. I'd use something like an aggressive 3M 400 or 500-series dual lock fastener. Poke around here to learn more: www.3m.com/DualLock
Magnets can be found in various strengths, sizes, and with various plastic housings which can be adhered to the headliner with hot melt adhesive. Once again, due to high temps, you'll want a high performance adhesive.
Both magnets and dual lock allow you to service the headliner in the future, if needed.
Mike
09-02-11, 05:02 PM
#4
I have thought about this as mine is sagging really bad in the rear from a water leak. Im thinking maybe getting it wet again (moist not dripping) and having something hold it in place while it dries. No idea how well this would work or if it even would. It makes sense to me since this is how mine got mis-shapen in the first place (water plus gravity). Why wouldnt it work the other way around?
09-02-11, 06:40 PM
#5
Why am I doing this?
Thread Starter
I have thought about this as mine is sagging really bad in the rear from a water leak. Im thinking maybe getting it wet again (moist not dripping) and having something hold it in place while it dries. No idea how well this would work or if it even would. It makes sense to me since this is how mine got mis-shapen in the first place (water plus gravity). Why wouldnt it work the other way around?
09-02-11, 07:45 PM
#6
These headliner substrates are made of cotton shoddy (shredded cotton fibers and resin). The shoddy is heated and compressed in a forming tool, which activates the resin and drives it through the fibers. When cooled, it maintains its new shape. In a separate operation, the foam is laminated to the cloth, creating the cover stock. Finally, the cover stock is glued to the formed shoddy substrate.
If you can support the headliner from the cloth side in its design position, you MIGHT be able to heat the back side with a steam iron and IF it becomes hot and flexible enough, weigh it down with large flat weights, letting it cool and take a shape more like its original shape.
Don't heat from the cloth side as you can melt the cloth or delaminate the cover stock from the substrate. Overheating it from the backside could possibly delaminate the cover stock, also. You'll have to work in relatively small areas and start at a moderate temperature/steam level and work your way up until you find a temp and heat time that starts to make the substrate flexible. You'll have to determine whether steam is necessary - heat alone should do it.
You'll want to find something to put between the iron and headliner to protect the iron - tin foil comes to mind. You'll want to work in a well-ventilated place, as well.
Take it slow and learn how large of an area you can manage.
This is a suggestion. I've not tried this. But if it we're my headliner, this is the approach I take. I'd probably take a fair amount of time making a decent fixture to hold the headliner in order to make the rework as easy and accurate as possible.
If you can support the headliner from the cloth side in its design position, you MIGHT be able to heat the back side with a steam iron and IF it becomes hot and flexible enough, weigh it down with large flat weights, letting it cool and take a shape more like its original shape.
Don't heat from the cloth side as you can melt the cloth or delaminate the cover stock from the substrate. Overheating it from the backside could possibly delaminate the cover stock, also. You'll have to work in relatively small areas and start at a moderate temperature/steam level and work your way up until you find a temp and heat time that starts to make the substrate flexible. You'll have to determine whether steam is necessary - heat alone should do it.
You'll want to find something to put between the iron and headliner to protect the iron - tin foil comes to mind. You'll want to work in a well-ventilated place, as well.
Take it slow and learn how large of an area you can manage.
This is a suggestion. I've not tried this. But if it we're my headliner, this is the approach I take. I'd probably take a fair amount of time making a decent fixture to hold the headliner in order to make the rework as easy and accurate as possible.
09-02-11, 10:49 PM
#7
Why am I doing this?
Thread Starter
These headliner substrates are made of cotton shoddy (shredded cotton fibers and resin). The shoddy is heated and compressed in a forming tool, which activates the resin and drives it through the fibers. When cooled, it maintains its new shape. In a separate operation, the foam is laminated to the cloth, creating the cover stock. Finally, the cover stock is glued to the formed shoddy substrate.
If you can support the headliner from the cloth side in its design position, you MIGHT be able to heat the back side with a steam iron and IF it becomes hot and flexible enough, weigh it down with large flat weights, letting it cool and take a shape more like its original shape.
Don't heat from the cloth side as you can melt the cloth or delaminate the cover stock from the substrate. Overheating it from the backside could possibly delaminate the cover stock, also. You'll have to work in relatively small areas and start at a moderate temperature/steam level and work your way up until you find a temp and heat time that starts to make the substrate flexible. You'll have to determine whether steam is necessary - heat alone should do it.
You'll want to find something to put between the iron and headliner to protect the iron - tin foil comes to mind. You'll want to work in a well-ventilated place, as well.
Take it slow and learn how large of an area you can manage.
This is a suggestion. I've not tried this. But if it we're my headliner, this is the approach I take. I'd probably take a fair amount of time making a decent fixture to hold the headliner in order to make the rework as easy and accurate as possible.
If you can support the headliner from the cloth side in its design position, you MIGHT be able to heat the back side with a steam iron and IF it becomes hot and flexible enough, weigh it down with large flat weights, letting it cool and take a shape more like its original shape.
Don't heat from the cloth side as you can melt the cloth or delaminate the cover stock from the substrate. Overheating it from the backside could possibly delaminate the cover stock, also. You'll have to work in relatively small areas and start at a moderate temperature/steam level and work your way up until you find a temp and heat time that starts to make the substrate flexible. You'll have to determine whether steam is necessary - heat alone should do it.
You'll want to find something to put between the iron and headliner to protect the iron - tin foil comes to mind. You'll want to work in a well-ventilated place, as well.
Take it slow and learn how large of an area you can manage.
This is a suggestion. I've not tried this. But if it we're my headliner, this is the approach I take. I'd probably take a fair amount of time making a decent fixture to hold the headliner in order to make the rework as easy and accurate as possible.
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09-02-11, 11:40 PM
#8
This is some good info that I could use as well. Not sure if my headliner substructure is salvageable though. Its pretty warped at the rear and even worse around the sun roof. The vinyl covering is ripped and needs replacing so I dont really need to worry about it delaminating.
09-03-11, 03:37 AM
#9
I read that you guys were talking about vinyl-wrapped headliners, above, but I didn't think about the fact that they might have a different substrate. You'll have to verify whether that headliner is made with shoddy vs. some kind of hardboard.
'84/'85 is shoddy, with foam and cloth. Hardboard could be harder to work with.
Good luck! Let us know how it goes.
'84/'85 is shoddy, with foam and cloth. Hardboard could be harder to work with.
Good luck! Let us know how it goes.
09-03-11, 01:21 PM
#10
I pulled my headliner yesterday and junked it. Large sections of the hardboard/shoddy 
were damaged or missing. The cloth had drooped down a good seven inches in back.
The car sat for ten years without a sunroof rubber surround before I got it. Severe water damage and lots of mold. Not salvageable.
were damaged or missing. The cloth had drooped down a good seven inches in back.The car sat for ten years without a sunroof rubber surround before I got it. Severe water damage and lots of mold. Not salvageable.
09-03-11, 02:03 PM
#11
Why am I doing this?
Thread Starter
Whats your plan to replace?
I pulled my headliner yesterday and junked it. Large sections of the hardboard/shoddy were damaged or missing. The cloth had drooped down a good seven inches in back.
The car sat for ten years without a sunroof rubber surround before I got it. Severe water damage and lots of mold. Not salvageable.
were damaged or missing. The cloth had drooped down a good seven inches in back.The car sat for ten years without a sunroof rubber surround before I got it. Severe water damage and lots of mold. Not salvageable.
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