6 port actuator question.
12-01-08, 07:45 PM
#1
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6 port actuator question.
Greetings people! On my 85 SE, both of the "auxilary port actuators" are seized solid. I am not sure if its the solenoids or the shafts that go through the intake manifold. Here is the thread that has the pic..... 1st image...
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showthread.php?t=706258
Is it recommended to remove them? Or should I pull the intake off and try to free them up? If so, do I need a plate? Also it looks as if there is a steel vacuum pipe that goes to both of them that someone has snipped. Anyone know where the hose goes to? Lastly, what the frigg do these auxilary ports do?
Any help, would help...
Regards.
Mike75
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showthread.php?t=706258
Is it recommended to remove them? Or should I pull the intake off and try to free them up? If so, do I need a plate? Also it looks as if there is a steel vacuum pipe that goes to both of them that someone has snipped. Anyone know where the hose goes to? Lastly, what the frigg do these auxilary ports do?
Any help, would help...
Regards.
Mike75
12-01-08, 08:06 PM
#2
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mike the best thing to do is to pull the manifold off,pull the rods out of the manifold and clean and lube all of it,and while you have it apart,i would install Pineapple racing sixport inserts,for $50 it's a great upgrade.the sixports work at higher rpms,the vaccum of the exhaust signals the actuators to roll open and you get more air and fuel into the engine.
12-02-08, 10:08 AM
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ok, understood. So last night I pulled the vacuum actuators off and applied vacuum to them and they work perfect. I managed to free up the levers that are in the lower intake manifold, but IMO they are still too difficult to operate. So, I guess I will have to pull the intake off to attempt to get them out. Where do I find these "Pineapple racing sixport inserts?" Lastly, is it recommended to remove the air pump on this engine? Thanks
12-02-08, 01:16 PM
#6
To remove the auxilary port sleeves you'll have to remove the dynamic chamber/throttle body, upper and lower intake manifolds, a bunch of vacuum lines, wires and a couple coolant hoses. Its a significant job. Be sure to get a new lower manifold gasket. They are almost never reuseable. If the sleeves move freely now, I would focus on supplying back pressure to the actuators. They do not work on vacuum. They work with pressure. They need 2-4 lbs of pressure to activate them. The stock configuration is a pipe that connects to the cat and uses the exhaust pressure. The 2 SEs I have here now both have full RB SP exhaust, so I don't have a stock set up to show you.
12-02-08, 04:52 PM
#7
If you remove the inserts, or the actuators - you will lose all the low-end torque which makes the GSL-SE so special. Take off the intake, clean everything up, and put it back the way it should work.
Last edited by Directfreak; 12-02-08 at 08:16 PM.
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12-02-08, 07:19 PM
#8
12-02-08, 07:24 PM
#9
From start to finish (doing it right and taking yor time) it is about a 2 hour job. Make sure you order a new LIM gasket before you do the job. Also be careful to use something "soft" to get the old gasket off the manifold and block----don't ask me how I know :-) Using anything hard (wire wheel) will damage/warp the metal. Once you get everything cleaned and back together, you should be able to put a vacuum line on the actuator and blow in it to work the actuator rod up and down fairly easy. Good luck!
Mike
12-02-08, 08:29 PM
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that's strange,i had put them in a few of my cars and had great results.they make a liittle less power on the GSL-SE because of the intake system but they still work great,and if they didn't work then why would mazda use this same design in the RX-8 engines?
12-02-08, 08:35 PM
#11
Does Mazda use pineapple inserts in their aux port sleeves?
12-02-08, 09:18 PM
#13
Pineapple claims about an 8 hp increase. There has been NO Proven Dyno increases. The "Butt Dyno" will always feel what it wants to feel.
If you want to do it, then go right ahead, but there have been many cases where the sleeves have worked themselved loose, and into the engine.
Enough of an argument to stay away from it, IMO.
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...NEAPPLE+insert
However, If you're still interested in them:
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...25#post8721490
If you want to do it, then go right ahead, but there have been many cases where the sleeves have worked themselved loose, and into the engine.
Enough of an argument to stay away from it, IMO.
I used to install these when customers would bring them to me during an engine build. IN the beginning, Pineapple's "instructions" consisted of, well, nothing. ON their website, it used to say "these are a press fit" and so that is what I went by when installing them. And yes, they are designed so they cannot POSSIBLY come out of the hole and into the engine. Sounds good, right?
NOT.
After about 3 engines (1 very quickly, 2 others within 3 years) died due to these, it became clear to me the design might be good but the implementation was shitty. What happened was that over time, with the engine's vibration, heat cycling, and air pulsation in and out of the chamber, the insert worked its way free inside the sleeve. Now, it couldn't come out of the hole, but it could damn sure slide back and forth in the sleeve. Finally it would bang into the rod at the end of the sleeve, the short rod that the longer manifold actuator rod locks onto. Eventually it would break the rod in half and then the pieces of the ROD would fall into the engine and tear it all to hell.
I even advised Pineapple of the problem that needed to be addressed and they ignored it for about a year, but not before basically saying that I was a dumbass for not automatically knowing how to "properly" install their parts, by drilling and tapping a countersunk screw into the end or other means. They finally changed their website to add that the customer/installer should explore their own options for holding them in place.
Bottom line, it's a great idea, and it is possible to execute safely with enough effort, but it's a risk not worth taking for the 1-2 hp you might gain. Nobody that installed them could tell a difference, that I spoke with, and I certainly couldn't.
NOT.
After about 3 engines (1 very quickly, 2 others within 3 years) died due to these, it became clear to me the design might be good but the implementation was shitty. What happened was that over time, with the engine's vibration, heat cycling, and air pulsation in and out of the chamber, the insert worked its way free inside the sleeve. Now, it couldn't come out of the hole, but it could damn sure slide back and forth in the sleeve. Finally it would bang into the rod at the end of the sleeve, the short rod that the longer manifold actuator rod locks onto. Eventually it would break the rod in half and then the pieces of the ROD would fall into the engine and tear it all to hell.
I even advised Pineapple of the problem that needed to be addressed and they ignored it for about a year, but not before basically saying that I was a dumbass for not automatically knowing how to "properly" install their parts, by drilling and tapping a countersunk screw into the end or other means. They finally changed their website to add that the customer/installer should explore their own options for holding them in place.
Bottom line, it's a great idea, and it is possible to execute safely with enough effort, but it's a risk not worth taking for the 1-2 hp you might gain. Nobody that installed them could tell a difference, that I spoke with, and I certainly couldn't.
However, If you're still interested in them:
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...25#post8721490
12-02-08, 09:30 PM
#14
Smoke moar
Directfreak, I wasn't saying their good btw.
They're probably not a bad mod if your engines already apart and make sure their secured in good, but I've never seen a rotary engine apart nor know the exact differences between the inserts but I'm sure if done right it's okay for the 50 dolla.
They're probably not a bad mod if your engines already apart and make sure their secured in good, but I've never seen a rotary engine apart nor know the exact differences between the inserts but I'm sure if done right it's okay for the 50 dolla.
12-03-08, 01:30 AM
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i wasn't triying to sell anyone on anything,i thought it would be a good upgrade if the lower intake had to come off,i've not had any problems with them damaging any of my engines,don't buy them if your not comfortable.the next time i go to the dyno sometime next spring,i will see what they do,i also have a couple of friends that use them and see what the out come is,now i'm curious.
12-03-08, 08:38 PM
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I dont really care about the Pineapple inserts-I just want my SE to run properly. I gotta get this manifold off and see what the hell is going on-This engine is so different from my old 12A.
12-05-08, 01:22 AM
#18
Explain or post a pic of the 'snipped' tube leading to the aux port actuators. There are 2 differences between the Pineapple sleeves and the stock ones. The Pineapple sleeves have a curved end for smoother air flow, but they don't rotate, leaving the aux ports always open, which defeats the purpose of even having them.
There is a small tube that comes off of the exhaust the supply the needed pressure to open the ports. There is a short rubber hose that joins the steel tube from the exhaust to the steel tube on the intake mani. I've found a simple solution to actuate the ports when using headers, pic is in the following link. Parts cost less than 10 bucks in plumbing section at the hardware store. You will need the correct size drill bit and a a 3/8" NPT tap.
https://www.rx7club.com/2nd-generation-specific-1986-1992-17/6-port-gorus-help-404297/
There is a small tube that comes off of the exhaust the supply the needed pressure to open the ports. There is a short rubber hose that joins the steel tube from the exhaust to the steel tube on the intake mani. I've found a simple solution to actuate the ports when using headers, pic is in the following link. Parts cost less than 10 bucks in plumbing section at the hardware store. You will need the correct size drill bit and a a 3/8" NPT tap.
https://www.rx7club.com/2nd-generation-specific-1986-1992-17/6-port-gorus-help-404297/
12-05-08, 02:30 PM
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Hey guys;
In the first pic, the previous owner plugged the big rubber hose with a spark plug.
Where is it supossed to go?
Also in the first pic, the small steel line that attaches both actuators.
Somebody clipped the vacuum line going to that steel pipe-where does it go?
The rest of the pics show how carboned up the ports are. I managed to free them up and get them out of the engine. Woo Hoo!! I also managed to free up the rods that turn inside the lower intake manifold, but I think I still may remove them. The 4 phillips screws that hold them in are seized solid, so, I dunno.
I cant see any steel pipe coming off my front exhaust pipe so perhaps that has been torched off and plugged. Hmmm...
In the first pic, the previous owner plugged the big rubber hose with a spark plug.
Where is it supossed to go?
Also in the first pic, the small steel line that attaches both actuators.
Somebody clipped the vacuum line going to that steel pipe-where does it go?
The rest of the pics show how carboned up the ports are. I managed to free them up and get them out of the engine. Woo Hoo!! I also managed to free up the rods that turn inside the lower intake manifold, but I think I still may remove them. The 4 phillips screws that hold them in are seized solid, so, I dunno.
I cant see any steel pipe coming off my front exhaust pipe so perhaps that has been torched off and plugged. Hmmm...
12-05-08, 06:49 PM
#22
Hey guys;
In the first pic, the previous owner plugged the big rubber hose with a spark plug.
Where is it supossed to go?
Also in the first pic, the small steel line that attaches both actuators.
Somebody clipped the vacuum line going to that steel pipe-where does it go?
The rest of the pics show how carboned up the ports are. I managed to free them up and get them out of the engine. Woo Hoo!! I also managed to free up the rods that turn inside the lower intake manifold, but I think I still may remove them. The 4 phillips screws that hold them in are seized solid, so, I dunno.
I cant see any steel pipe coming off my front exhaust pipe so perhaps that has been torched off and plugged. Hmmm...
In the first pic, the previous owner plugged the big rubber hose with a spark plug.
Where is it supossed to go?
Also in the first pic, the small steel line that attaches both actuators.
Somebody clipped the vacuum line going to that steel pipe-where does it go?
The rest of the pics show how carboned up the ports are. I managed to free them up and get them out of the engine. Woo Hoo!! I also managed to free up the rods that turn inside the lower intake manifold, but I think I still may remove them. The 4 phillips screws that hold them in are seized solid, so, I dunno.
I cant see any steel pipe coming off my front exhaust pipe so perhaps that has been torched off and plugged. Hmmm...
Mike,
If you do not have the stock exhaust and are running headers with no cats, you do not need the hose that's plugged. I can't remember exactly where it goes, but it was for emissions-----air pump, ACV or something like that.
On my RB exhaust, there is one feed line from the exhuast that connects to the steel line on the LIM. That steel line feeds air to both actuators. If the line is cut, then there is no air pressure working the aux ports. You can either repair the line, make a new line with some tubing, get a line off another LIM, or get aux ports from an S4 or S5 LIM and run vacuum lines directly to them, since they have vacuum barbs right on the actuator (no steel line to feed both like the S3). You will need to use an impact wrench/gun to get the screws out or you can drill them out. Be careful not to drill out the threads. I put my LIM in the vise to do this. Afterwards, I re-tapped the holes and put in all new screws with anti-seize.
Mike
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