1st Gen 12A Turbo
02-13-02, 03:42 PM
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1st Gen 12A Turbo
Besides the Japanese version (not sold outside Japan) does anybody have any comment/remarks about the Mazda Rx7 Turbo (Elfort)? These 1st gen's where modified by Elfort in the UK (by order from Mazda UK)
I'm buying one but only few people know of this type. There was an article in the British Mag "Classic & Sports Car" a few years ago, it was an comparisson between an Porsche 924 Turbo and the Mazda RX-7 1st gen Elfort Turbo. Does anybody have that mag or articale?
Any body any comments or pic or remarks?.
Greetz,
Mireck
I'm buying one but only few people know of this type. There was an article in the British Mag "Classic & Sports Car" a few years ago, it was an comparisson between an Porsche 924 Turbo and the Mazda RX-7 1st gen Elfort Turbo. Does anybody have that mag or articale?
Any body any comments or pic or remarks?.
Greetz,
Mireck
02-13-02, 04:04 PM
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That are the only original 12 A Turbo by Mazda except for their own 12A turbo for their own japanese market. Factory modified in the UK on orders of Mazda UK by the Elfort companie between 1980 and 1983. The Elfort company doesn't exists anymore BTW.
Ring a bell?
Ring a bell?
02-13-02, 06:34 PM
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Elford Turbo... used a T3 drawing through a pair of SU carbs. (They're a funny lot in the UK ) There's an article about it in the Brooklands road-test digest.
) There's an article about it in the Brooklands road-test digest.
02-13-02, 09:19 PM
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Thanks Mike for thinking I am know about imports into the UK while temporily living in Australia!
Purely by chance my brother bought a new Elford turbo.
Elfords were a Mazda dealer in Southern England who decided to add a turbo to the RX at the same time many US firms ere going down the same track. They persuaded Mazda UK to support the project as RX sales were poor due to the numerous local sports cars. As a result several dealers sold and serviced them with Mazda's blessing. About 450 were sold. The important point from memory it did not destroy the Mazda warranty.
The engine retained normal compression but added a Garrett TO4 Turbo providing a very low pressure of 6lbi, running through a modified exhaust system.
Series 1 used SU carbs putting out 160bhp@6000 rpm, equivalent to the first series of the Jspec 12at. Turbo charging was still in its infancy and the set up beacame very unreliable and lumpy. Some were changed to run Webber 45s.
Series II was a great improvement with EFI, a redesigned manifold and exhaust system- series I exhausts were hopeless they burned out quickly. Power was up marginally, but it was more trouble free without some of the flat spots with the carb. Starting was no problem like the S.I
Both series had a squared off air dam with built in fog lamps, if you used them as driving lights the Police picked you up. There were bigger wheels and tires but not too dramatic as they were few low profiles.
To put them in perspective they were equivalent to a mildly ported gsl,
in some ways the turbo was a bit of a sales gimmick. Latter on a few were modified by their owners with 180-200 hp.
What to look for. Series I is a doubtful buy unlss the carb has been upgraded. Series II is like any other gen 1. Check for rust in all the usual places, epecially if a Sussex or Dorset vehicle. Check the compression, UK vehicles did many short and cold weather trips so the seals wore quickly. There was a fuel pump problem at high revs but local driving habits were to rarely go over 6000rpm so for most drivers it was not a problem. As a matter of interest UK cars had different ports and produced about 115bhp stock so the motor already has a better performane than US spec. Steering with the big wheel set up was very heavy and it needed frequent adjustment, bushes also wore quickly and upgrading the suspension was necessary. My bother lived in Devon with very windy narrow roads not even wide enough for 2 cars, the side of the road were tall granite walls which did nasty things to your bodywork so good suspension was essential while showing off the turbo.
From memory it was not as quick as my Lotus on typical UK roads but could see off the usual pack of MGBs and TRs. While you usually got a round of drinks in before the bugeyes and spitefuls arrived.
Road tests at the time were always very generous as the mags were driven by advertising revenue. On one occasion I knpw about with a small sports car builder the journalist was late and wrote the revue to meet deadlines before he borrowed the car for three days! So dont necessarily believe what the road test says. They always went for the 944 in comparisons as an act of faith.
Purely by chance my brother bought a new Elford turbo.
Elfords were a Mazda dealer in Southern England who decided to add a turbo to the RX at the same time many US firms ere going down the same track. They persuaded Mazda UK to support the project as RX sales were poor due to the numerous local sports cars. As a result several dealers sold and serviced them with Mazda's blessing. About 450 were sold. The important point from memory it did not destroy the Mazda warranty.
The engine retained normal compression but added a Garrett TO4 Turbo providing a very low pressure of 6lbi, running through a modified exhaust system.
Series 1 used SU carbs putting out 160bhp@6000 rpm, equivalent to the first series of the Jspec 12at. Turbo charging was still in its infancy and the set up beacame very unreliable and lumpy. Some were changed to run Webber 45s.
Series II was a great improvement with EFI, a redesigned manifold and exhaust system- series I exhausts were hopeless they burned out quickly. Power was up marginally, but it was more trouble free without some of the flat spots with the carb. Starting was no problem like the S.I
Both series had a squared off air dam with built in fog lamps, if you used them as driving lights the Police picked you up. There were bigger wheels and tires but not too dramatic as they were few low profiles.
To put them in perspective they were equivalent to a mildly ported gsl,
in some ways the turbo was a bit of a sales gimmick. Latter on a few were modified by their owners with 180-200 hp.
What to look for. Series I is a doubtful buy unlss the carb has been upgraded. Series II is like any other gen 1. Check for rust in all the usual places, epecially if a Sussex or Dorset vehicle. Check the compression, UK vehicles did many short and cold weather trips so the seals wore quickly. There was a fuel pump problem at high revs but local driving habits were to rarely go over 6000rpm so for most drivers it was not a problem. As a matter of interest UK cars had different ports and produced about 115bhp stock so the motor already has a better performane than US spec. Steering with the big wheel set up was very heavy and it needed frequent adjustment, bushes also wore quickly and upgrading the suspension was necessary. My bother lived in Devon with very windy narrow roads not even wide enough for 2 cars, the side of the road were tall granite walls which did nasty things to your bodywork so good suspension was essential while showing off the turbo.
From memory it was not as quick as my Lotus on typical UK roads but could see off the usual pack of MGBs and TRs. While you usually got a round of drinks in before the bugeyes and spitefuls arrived.
Road tests at the time were always very generous as the mags were driven by advertising revenue. On one occasion I knpw about with a small sports car builder the journalist was late and wrote the revue to meet deadlines before he borrowed the car for three days! So dont necessarily believe what the road test says. They always went for the 944 in comparisons as an act of faith.
02-13-02, 09:43 PM
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One minor point, the original thread said the Elford turbo was ordered by Mazda. My recollection was you ordered it from your local Mazda dealer for delivery to Elfords, thus Mazda had no direct legal connection with the conversion. Elfords also converted used 7s [and other Mazdas], about 1/3 of their production on average. Several other firms, such as TVR, hotted up the RX but you had a warranty problem.
If the car is in the Netherlands, is it lefthand drive? I am not sure whether it was offered as a bolt-on kit.
If the car is in the Netherlands, is it lefthand drive? I am not sure whether it was offered as a bolt-on kit.
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02-14-02, 02:08 AM
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Thanks guys! This gives me some more insight about this type. I'm sorry form my poor englisch and mayby thats why there's the confusion about the "ordered by Mazda UK" I mean that the warrenty wasn't destroyed and they had the approval of Mazda UK.
And yes, the car is in the netherlands and has an lefthand-drive. The car has always been of a Belgium Mazda dealer. The engine is revised and has I think 2 SU carbs. The body is fitted with a complete body-set of TWR. The dealer ordered the car back in 1980 or 1981 I'm not sure about the series, series I or II. The dealer was kiled in a car accident 2 years ago. The car is compleely repainted and rust protected, I'm trying to get more info because I need to get rid of the belgium license plates and get a dutch license plate on the car.
Peejaa, do you have a digital copy of the brooklands digest for me?
Well, I'm off to work, I'll check back in this evening.
Thanks,
Mireck
And yes, the car is in the netherlands and has an lefthand-drive. The car has always been of a Belgium Mazda dealer. The engine is revised and has I think 2 SU carbs. The body is fitted with a complete body-set of TWR. The dealer ordered the car back in 1980 or 1981 I'm not sure about the series, series I or II. The dealer was kiled in a car accident 2 years ago. The car is compleely repainted and rust protected, I'm trying to get more info because I need to get rid of the belgium license plates and get a dutch license plate on the car.
Peejaa, do you have a digital copy of the brooklands digest for me?
Well, I'm off to work, I'll check back in this evening.
Thanks,
Mireck
02-14-02, 02:14 AM
#9
Old [Sch|F]ool
Unfortunately no, and the book is about 200km south of where i am right now. It's just a copy of a magazine review from when the car was new. It's two pages, and I think I can scan them in and mail them to you when I go back south (we have a scanner there). I'm not sure if it would be wise to post them on the forum.
02-14-02, 04:26 AM
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Are you sure its an Elford?
The Elford conversion included both a front air dam and a rear spoiler.
You say the car has a full TWR kit [Tom Wilkinson Racing]. Tom of course was well known for his racing RX7s. The firm specialsed in producing sports car conversions. In particular it sold a whole range of RX7 body parts and alloy wheels. They also produced a turbo kit which I think used twin Weber 40DCOE set up rather than SUs. Thus, your car could be a TWR machine as they sold everything in a kit form and this could have been installed in a left hand drive car by the local Mazda dealer.
Which ever kit or combination of the two it is, you should have a relatively well enoineered car as both were Mazda experts. As for the age what style of front bumper does it have?
Peejay, dont knock the SU, they were simple to set up and at one time I prefered them when building my own hill climb specisls as it was easy to get torque. It was only later that Colin Chapman convinced me to use Webers.
The Elford conversion included both a front air dam and a rear spoiler.
You say the car has a full TWR kit [Tom Wilkinson Racing]. Tom of course was well known for his racing RX7s. The firm specialsed in producing sports car conversions. In particular it sold a whole range of RX7 body parts and alloy wheels. They also produced a turbo kit which I think used twin Weber 40DCOE set up rather than SUs. Thus, your car could be a TWR machine as they sold everything in a kit form and this could have been installed in a left hand drive car by the local Mazda dealer.
Which ever kit or combination of the two it is, you should have a relatively well enoineered car as both were Mazda experts. As for the age what style of front bumper does it have?
Peejay, dont knock the SU, they were simple to set up and at one time I prefered them when building my own hill climb specisls as it was easy to get torque. It was only later that Colin Chapman convinced me to use Webers.
02-14-02, 03:32 PM
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Old [Sch|F]ool
I think they're neat carbs too, I just could never fully understand the British fetish for them. SUs on Buick/Rover 3.5l V8s, SUs on the Elford Turbo, SU kits sold by HME, SUs here, there, everywhere!
02-14-02, 05:38 PM
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Peejay, had to send you my 100th post to say how great your forum contributions are, I might even turn all 2318 into a workshop manual! At present its 250 miles to the nearest TV set, or sealed highway for that matter, so visiting the Forum is good entertainment. Worth buying an RX just to join in.
The SU was a great stock carb for its day, but time has passed it by. In my school days [and budget] performance tuning was putting on a smaller head to boost compression and buying the biggest SU you could find in the junkyard! Your car wasn't fast until it made more noise than my Dad's Bugatti.
The SU was a great stock carb for its day, but time has passed it by. In my school days [and budget] performance tuning was putting on a smaller head to boost compression and buying the biggest SU you could find in the junkyard! Your car wasn't fast until it made more noise than my Dad's Bugatti.
02-15-02, 05:03 PM
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Thanks guys!
I've looking at the car and it looks like you're right Paul. Even the wheels have a centercoverplate with the letters TWR in them. The rear wheels are 7J and front 5.5 J
Here's a quick picture of the car!
The paint has been very good. The roof is painted in a checkered flag, black/silver. I try to post some more pics of the car.
I haven't taken a look at the carbs yet, I keep you guys informed about this.!
Greetz,
Mireck
I've looking at the car and it looks like you're right Paul. Even the wheels have a centercoverplate with the letters TWR in them. The rear wheels are 7J and front 5.5 J
Here's a quick picture of the car!
The paint has been very good. The roof is painted in a checkered flag, black/silver. I try to post some more pics of the car.
I haven't taken a look at the carbs yet, I keep you guys informed about this.!
Greetz,
Mireck
02-15-02, 07:48 PM
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A good photograph, it certainly appears to be a TWR body kit.
There is an interesting possibility TWR- Mazdaspeed regulrily raced RX-7s in Belgium with great success during 1980-81. This could mean the car was originally put together for the local Mazda dealer as a publicity project by TWR. History is written by the winners.
As a minor point the name if Elford not Elfort.
There is an interesting possibility TWR- Mazdaspeed regulrily raced RX-7s in Belgium with great success during 1980-81. This could mean the car was originally put together for the local Mazda dealer as a publicity project by TWR. History is written by the winners.
As a minor point the name if Elford not Elfort.
02-18-02, 04:50 AM
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Peejay. About SUs, on the thread about 12a 3 rotor motors there is a post about Hurley Egineering a UK firm. They are still making a twin SU conversion based on a 1 3/4 HIF unit!
However eveni more interesting, they produce 3, 4, and 6 rotor motors with amazing perforn]mance characteristics.
However eveni more interesting, they produce 3, 4, and 6 rotor motors with amazing perforn]mance characteristics.
02-18-02, 05:19 AM
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Holy ****!!!! where do i get that bodykit? (wishful thinking, i know)lol
!!!! Does anyone even make anything close to that anymore 
? Someone could make some serious bank re-producing a kit even close to that ... I would buy two, one for both my cars.~T.J.
02-19-02, 09:16 AM
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Originally posted by MIKE-P-28
Thats a sweet looking car mate, nice one. More pics would be great
Thats a sweet looking car mate, nice one. More pics would be great
Roof painted!
02-19-02, 09:20 AM
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Originally posted by MIKE-P-28
Thats a sweet looking car mate, nice one. More pics would be great
Thats a sweet looking car mate, nice one. More pics would be great
Please notice the turbo 2 rotor dragster in the background of pic 26!
And they say we're doing nothing here in the Netherlands!!!
02-19-02, 09:22 AM
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Originally posted by MIKE-P-28
Thats a sweet looking car mate, nice one. More pics would be great
Thats a sweet looking car mate, nice one. More pics would be great
full view of the rotary dragster in the Background!!!
02-19-02, 09:24 AM
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Originally posted by MIKE-P-28
Thats a sweet looking car mate, nice one. More pics would be great
Thats a sweet looking car mate, nice one. More pics would be great