780rx7

Help a new member! My son and I recently purchased a 1980 rx7 to restore. There is a serious backfiring issue on deceleration as well as when the rpm's get close to the 7000 red line. My dog won't even ride with me any-more! Poor thing just shivers. The exhaust has been redone, every-thing looks o.k. from the exterior including all of the air induction routing, except for the air cooling pipe coming out of the thermal reactor (sounds nuclear) which has been capped off. IS this supposed to route to the muffler? Will this cause the reactor to get too hot which will cause the backfiring?

Thanks in advance for your input!

warwickben

iTrader: (1)

i allso have a 1980 rx7 all the othere sa's 79-80 and fb's 81-85 can and seem to have this problem. dont flame me for this but you best bet to stop this is to replace the whole system. most people like raceing beat so you mite want to check them out. the carbs run rich stock which is part of the problem. if you have any leaks that will make it worse. my car shots fire ***** . . do you live in a state where you still have to pass emissions on the car? if not lose the smog pump

'84-12A-GSL

Could be a seized shutter valve, which is a little valve that is suppose to stop fuel from entering the rear rotor, when decelerating, there for reducing or stopping back firing. It's located in the intake manifold, and runs off vacuum. But back firing is a pretty common thing with rotaries.

TAS

Welcome the world of rotaries. Must us rotorheads actually welcome the flame ball that torches the Tailgater's bumper....

Oh and the honduh kids are all going to want to race you.

Jeezus

iTrader: (4)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QchXiwd1toU

780rx7

Tonight I unhooked the air pump from the system to see if that would reduce the backfires. Nope, same issue. These are loud like gunshots. I don't think this has a shutter valve as that seems to have been introduced in '81.

OnlyOnThurs

no way the removal of the air pump makes it worst from my exp lol. I love the back fires ...FIRE ***** FTW!!!

RacerX7fb

Looks like you answered yourself with that one. If an air cooling pipe is capped off don't you think something will get hot? hmmm... YES. Will it cause backfiring... possibly yet not likely.

******ANY car that comes from any manufacturer is designed to run smooth and quiet and perform as long as possible. Yanking stuff out does not fix problems; parts are put in a car for a reason. Problems usually occur when maintenance is neglected or things simply wear out.

With that approach:

Put everything back to stock, airpump, etc.
Check for vacuum leaks, lose or cracked hoses, crappy gaskets... fix or replace.
Clean off any gunk in and around the carb.
Adjust fuel mixture. Your car is probably running rich.
Adjust ignition timing. Tuneup time!
Not sure about the SA carbs but if there's an anti-afterburn solenoid next to the throttle make sure it works!!!

Yes we enjoy backfires

bugman1973

every engine ive ever had in my rx7 has back fired at one time or another even the fuel injected version. basically your carb needs to be adjusted go to blackdragonauto.com get there kit to adjust the carb turns blue when perfect. works pretty well should get rid of most back fires. but not all of them. most of us just live with a few every now and then but before i adjusted my carb i blew up 2 mufflers 1 stock one and 1 after market unit. so be careful it will happen but just not as much. and question why are you spending time at the red line as much as you are.

Rx-7Doctor

iTrader: (13)

There is no shutter valve on the Sa models.

Rx-7Doctor

iTrader: (13)

It's not a adjustment problem on the carb. Between you and 84-12a-GSL you are steering this guy in the wrong direction.

The Sa's were famous for the backfiring problem.
Most common problems but not limited to are.
Defective air control valve.
Defective or out of adjusted dashpot on the side closest to the firewall that controls the return of the throttle.
Also need to test the deaccel system per the FSM. Factory service manual can be linked per member trochoid profile.

Also do a search with the terms backfiring. I have posted and so have others with the relevent material that you need for the Sa models.

TAS

Ditto

My old SA loved to pop all the time.

780rx7

Wow, you guys are awesome. Thanks for the input! I only experienced the red line backfire once as I don't normally bring it up that high. Every other time, it is on deceleration. I ran it in the garage last night and would rev it to 5000 and let it come down and it would backfire everytime. The exhaust stinks like unburnt fuel. Also I should mention that this thing sat for 2 years before we bought it.

I'll give the tips a try, especially the carb tuneup (unburnt fuel - running rich?) and the air pump switch and deceleration adjsustments.

Thanks again!

780rx7

Thanks RX7 doctor. Should have searched this before. Tons of tips available. I guess stinky exhaust is normal!

Thanks again.

innertwist

iTrader: (3)

A big one that everyone seems to have left out: exhaust leaks, and not just the main exhaust, but the air sleave as well. Think about it like turning off an oxy torch. If you shut off the oxygen first the flame just gets dirty (in the exhaust, it would smother itself), but if you turn off the gas first you get a very loud pop. Does your car backfire when you turn it off? This is most likely the reason.

Edit: reread the top post. Don't cap off the air cooling pipe! You can run it short of the rear but capping it will cause all of the air to enter the thermal reactor, thus creating the overlean situation described with the torch.

KeloidJonesJr.

iTrader: (8)

Any car can backfire...I saw a dumb Honda with a flame kit the other day. I was laughing so hard when I saw a puny spark coming out from his tailpipe.

'84-12A-GSL

Learn more than one thing new everyday on this site!

And were just throwing out options, sorry if they're the wrong answer. No need to bash your head against the wall.

Rx-7Doctor

iTrader: (13)

Options are great if they pertain to the vehicle in question. Remember this is the "Technical" section. Meaning that the information that we provide needs to be relevent or accurate to the case at hand.

mar3

iTrader: (8)

The thermal reactor is a heavy cast iron piece with multiple shells surrounding it. Any crack in that casting will be hidden. The SA Nikki carbs are jetted rich so that the thermal reactor can burn any leftover HC's in that hellish environment created on purpose to meet emissions of that time. Problem is that when you have a crack or any kind of leak allowing even the slightest amount of fresh air to be sucked into the thermal reactor, your controlled burn of exhaust gases becomes explosive.

I had the problem too in my old '80 RX-7....changing nothing but the entire exhaust (header, cat, pre-muffler, then two mufflers...) to eliminate the thermal reactor stopped the backfire COMPLETELY at any revs or conditions. Air pump was still a part of the system with a 3-way cat, carb was untouched. You have a leak somewhere.

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

It could be a leak between the thermal reactor and the down pipe. If you need a gasket, I have one.

780rx7

Thanks for all the help. I'm going to try the dash pot and decel system tests first. Then maybe lean the carb slightly. Hopefully I don't need to replace the exhaust.

Thanks again, between every-body, looks like we have all the options/diagnostics covered.

I'll post again, to let you know if I got rid of it. It's driving me crazy!

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

Jack it up, fire up th engine and listen for exhaust leaks around the thermal reactor. If you see any carbon, it's a dead giveaway. Some heat shields might be in the way.

If the most noise is coming from the middle of the system, it could be the air pipe (about 1" diameter) sorry, I don't know the atual name for it. It is mild steel and can rust apart. That happened on my Cosmo and caused an exhaust leak sound near the heat exchanger.

780rx7

Everything seems to be operating properly except the dashpot was way out of wack. ALso, the white plastic valve leading to the carb from the dashpot was in backwards? I assume so because it seems to be a one way valve and the suction was keeping the dashpot rod from going down at all. THe dashpot was also adjusted to the top, meaning that it didn't do anything whatso-ever. Would there be a reason for this? Anyway after adjusting it, I took it for a drive and it seemed slightly better but still got some lowd gunshots - though not as frequent. The main time that it backfires is not only on decel, but when you gear down and the engine braking is fairly strong. Even going down a hilll with no throttle applied, it pops away.

Two more carb. questions. First, does any-one know what the factory-stock setting is for the idle mixture screw, ie how many turns out is it supposed to be? Yes, I've been messing with it and now it seems quite down on power. I'd like to return it to stock and then re-adjust the idle. SEcond, the hose from the air cleaner at the idle compensator is capped off, would there be a reason for this?

THanks to RX7 doc for recommending the FSM and to trochoid for providing it. THis thing is really a life saver.

780rx7

Edit: reread the top post. Don't cap off the air cooling pipe! You can run it short of the rear but capping it will cause all of the air to enter the thermal reactor, thus creating the overlean situation described with the torch.[/QUOTE]

It is capped right at the exit from the main pipe downstream of the reactor. I asked this question, but can't seem to find a drawing - where is this cooling pipe intended to end up? Does it route to the exhaust? This could be my problem, Although it doesn't backfire when I turn it off.

If I was to replace the exhaust with one from racing beat and eliminate the reactor, would this help with the backfiring issue? Would I then get rid of the air pump and valves etc.

Sorry for all the questions.

Fire85GSLSE

iTrader: (29)

Yep we had one bad 79 out of two of them. Blew out the muffler after it was all said and done. We swapped out the ACV and it went away!