13BT-REW into a 1st Gen
02-19-02, 06:15 PM
#2
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id say a 5k budget for a good setup that wont break things all the time.. if you look in the righthand corner you can do a search on this, the rew takes pretty much the same as a 13bt to put in..
02-19-02, 10:33 PM
#4
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The biggest difference between the 13BT and 13BREW is that the turbo setup on a 13BT sticks out further then the 13BREW. If you were to put a 13BT in a 3nd gen the turbo setup will hit the frame. The turbo setup on a REW is closer to the engine. Problem with REW is with free flowing exhaust the 2nd turbo spikes (leaning engine out). When the 2nd turbo comes online, the car will spin tires. So if you are in a turn and the suspension is loaded and the tires are grabbing. the second turbo comes on during the turn, you brake loose from the spike and spin out. Unless you keep the exhaust stock, the 2nd turbo will not come on smooth. The 89 and later 13BT and 13BREW are the same internally. Both have the light rotors. If it were me, I would buy a 13BT and get the stock intake manifiold off a 13BREW. The 13BREW has a better flowing manifold and with the 13BT turbo setup plumbing the turbo setup will be easier with one turbo. Also you can upgrade the stock 13BT turbo to support 340 RWHP for $675. Turbonetics does it and the inlet is enlarged to 3". Search for a user named FastRotaries and ask him about this upgrade, he knows all about it. The flywheel on a 13BREW is lighter than the 13BT. Also stick with a tranny from a 2nd gen because the 3rd gens have a problem with the 5th gear synchro breaking easily from powershifting. Get a good aftermarked ECU and you good to go.
02-20-02, 10:55 AM
#5
Well heres the prices as I see it :
Motor complete $2600
Haltech ECU $1200
Clutch $300
Flywheel $300
T2 Tranny (used)$350
2nd gen coils (used) $50?
Front cover from a GSL-SE $100 used
Fuel pump and lines $300
Front mount oil cooler $50 used?
FMIC (if REW) $800-1000 new
Theres a few things Im not think of right off. But you get the basic ideal, expect around $5k-$6k with you doing all the work plus another $300 or so for dyno tuning?
Motor complete $2600
Haltech ECU $1200
Clutch $300
Flywheel $300
T2 Tranny (used)$350
2nd gen coils (used) $50?
Front cover from a GSL-SE $100 used
Fuel pump and lines $300
Front mount oil cooler $50 used?
FMIC (if REW) $800-1000 new
Theres a few things Im not think of right off. But you get the basic ideal, expect around $5k-$6k with you doing all the work plus another $300 or so for dyno tuning?
02-20-02, 04:34 PM
#6
Old [Sch|F]ool
2600??? Sheez for that much get the 13B-RE instead. Isn't it $1800?
$300 for clutch? $350 for trans? $100 for GSL-SE front cover??? Man you gotta find a new place to get parts!
And if you know some metal fab skills you can get the ultimate intercooler for $200 or so from your friendly local Ford dealer... you just have to cut it down and make new end tanks so it'll fit in front of the radiator.
$300 for clutch? $350 for trans? $100 for GSL-SE front cover??? Man you gotta find a new place to get parts!
And if you know some metal fab skills you can get the ultimate intercooler for $200 or so from your friendly local Ford dealer... you just have to cut it down and make new end tanks so it'll fit in front of the radiator.
02-20-02, 04:41 PM
#7
Originally posted by peejay
And if you know some metal fab skills you can get the ultimate intercooler for $200 or so from your friendly local Ford dealer... you just have to cut it down and make new end tanks so it'll fit in front of the radiator.
And if you know some metal fab skills you can get the ultimate intercooler for $200 or so from your friendly local Ford dealer... you just have to cut it down and make new end tanks so it'll fit in front of the radiator.
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02-20-02, 04:42 PM
#8
Super Newbie
Hehe maybe $100 for the front cover and -SE oil pan together. My friend gave me those two parts...
peejay, I'd like to see you get a REAL clutch for less than $300, not some pos Autozone replacement clutch... ACT street clutches are a bit over $300. I had a 4 puck clutch made here in town and it was $300 for the clutch kit. Hell, my stock Mazda 12A pressure plate was $180!
peejay, I'd like to see you get a REAL clutch for less than $300, not some pos Autozone replacement clutch... ACT street clutches are a bit over $300. I had a 4 puck clutch made here in town and it was $300 for the clutch kit. Hell, my stock Mazda 12A pressure plate was $180!
02-20-02, 04:54 PM
#9
I was over estimating, seems to be the best way to figure estimated cost say that when you go under budget you feel good about yourself...
Me and you Peejay need to talk I need a front cover and oilpan and P/U for my new swappy I got a 12A one but Im told that wont do it?
You available via AOL IM?
By the way i picked up a 88 T2 trans for $225 including shipping.. Hope an 88 is ok It had 88k on it
Hell yeah Im gonna get a -RE instead of a -REW
Me and you Peejay need to talk
I need a front cover and oilpan and P/U for my new swappy I got a 12A one but Im told that wont do it?You available via AOL IM?
By the way i picked up a 88 T2 trans for $225 including shipping.. Hope an 88 is ok
It had 88k on itHell yeah Im gonna get a -RE instead of a -REW
Last edited by MIKE-P-28; 02-20-02 at 04:59 PM.
02-20-02, 05:59 PM
#10
Old [Sch|F]ool
I say go with a stock type clutch because it's better to have the clutch slip than the rearend break! Clutch slips, you go slower. Rearend breaks, you need a tow truck!
The intercooler I'm talking about is for the Ford Powerstroke. It's a biiig *****. Some have plastic end tanks, some have aluminum... there were two part numbers,there were both superseded to one part number and the guys on a mailinglist I'm on are finding out now if the new part# is plastic or ally end tanks. Either way you'd have to make new tanks, 'cos even if the intercooler physically fit (I doubt it would) the inlet and outlet tubing is enormous.
The intercooler I'm talking about is for the Ford Powerstroke. It's a biiig *****. Some have plastic end tanks, some have aluminum... there were two part numbers,there were both superseded to one part number and the guys on a mailinglist I'm on are finding out now if the new part# is plastic or ally end tanks. Either way you'd have to make new tanks, 'cos even if the intercooler physically fit (I doubt it would) the inlet and outlet tubing is enormous.
02-20-02, 06:13 PM
#11
Old [Sch|F]ool
http://www.xmission.com/~dempsey/minivan2/cooler.htm
http://www.xmission.com/~dempsey/minivan2/
http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/l..._info/ford_ic/ (includes detailed specs, pics)
http://www.thedodgegarage.com/turbo_coolers.html (detailed photos to junkyard-identify IC's)
39"x18"x2.5"!! Cut it in half and make two, sell one to a friend
The page of the original Crazy Bastard who did this, is down. First minivan in the 12's
02-21-02, 10:08 AM
#12
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WOW!! That's big. How much more turbo lag do you expect with an intercooler that big? How much boost will be lost through it? 1psi or hopefully not 2psi? I was lookin at an intercooler off a 76 Mac dump truck and that thing was 4 feet tall! It has 4" pipe and was at leat 5" thick. I need to get a picture of that an post it.
02-21-02, 05:18 PM
#13
Old [Sch|F]ool
check the links! most people report BETTER throttle response, probably because the I/C doesn't heat soak and under light throttle the air gets REALLY cool in it, and you get a nice slug of cold dense air when you open the throttle. As for boost pressure, most people note a boost increase (Dempsey said his went from 25 to 30psi).
Keep in mind those Shelby-Dodge guys need the best I/Cs they can get because they run their turbos HARD... 25-30psi out of a stock T3 turbo, basically disconnecting the wastegate
(the Mitsu turbos used on later cars are only good for 17psi and trail off to about 15, when you disconnect the wastegate)
I've only ever had two turbo cars, one had an intercooler the size of a single-serving pizza and never ran long enough to heat-soak, and the other one had no intercooler at all.
most people report BETTER throttle response, probably because the I/C doesn't heat soak and under light throttle the air gets REALLY cool in it, and you get a nice slug of cold dense air when you open the throttle. As for boost pressure, most people note a boost increase (Dempsey said his went from 25 to 30psi).Keep in mind those Shelby-Dodge guys need the best I/Cs they can get because they run their turbos HARD... 25-30psi out of a stock T3 turbo, basically disconnecting the wastegate
(the Mitsu turbos used on later cars are only good for 17psi and trail off to about 15, when you disconnect the wastegate)I've only ever had two turbo cars, one had an intercooler the size of a single-serving pizza and never ran long enough to heat-soak, and the other one had no intercooler at all.
Last edited by peejay; 02-21-02 at 05:21 PM.
02-21-02, 05:39 PM
#14
Dont you just HATE it when someone asks a question like this and you never see them again, or even to say thanks. Man pisses me off, all this stuff and no one is even remotely serious about doing it...
Im not refering to the intercooler of the mini van but about the post subject
Im not refering to the intercooler of the mini van but about the post subject
02-21-02, 05:50 PM
#15
Old [Sch|F]ool
well most people asking questions like this (putting a 13B-REW in a 1st-gen) probably can't handle the scope of the project... I mean, yeah there'd a be a nice fangle factor in doing it, but there are easier and cheaper ways of putting 255hp in a 1st-gen. My guess is people get a 1st-gen for cheap and figure "well the FD had the most powerful engine, will it fit?" not realizing that even the FD people seem to be rushing to get rid of the twin turbo setup
02-21-02, 08:17 PM
#16
LOL arent too many major HP producing FD's with the stock twins
I didnt mean to rant, but just kinda bothers me, when someone asks this and doesnt even check back and say thanks for letting me know. Its not the redundancy of the questions but lack of thanks...
And peejay you have helped me out many times... And have a feeling in the next coming months Ill need ya again
I guess repeating the same answers over and over isnt all bad, put 500 people in the same forum and you are bound to learn something, even if you think you know a lot
I didnt mean to rant, but just kinda bothers me, when someone asks this and doesnt even check back and say thanks for letting me know. Its not the redundancy of the questions but lack of thanks...
And peejay you have helped me out many times... And have a feeling in the next coming months Ill need ya again
I guess repeating the same answers over and over isnt all bad, put 500 people in the same forum and you are bound to learn something, even if you think you know a lot
02-21-02, 09:24 PM
#17
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I total support peejay and mike, very few of the questioners every action the answers or where serious in the first place. For example this thread was started by the person also asking how to get 400-450 hp but was still saving up for their car.
You get the same thing in sailing to, people dreaming of sailing round the world, ask detailed questions on exotic ports, end up with a lounge full of information and brochures, and never get out of their bath tub.
No wonder Paul Yaw, rarely responds unless your name is Peejay. How many of the enquiries end up as sales? We should be like lawyers, their cost clock starts ticking the moment you walk in.
Perhaps there should be a Forum rule, no question can be asked unless you have hit the search button first!
You get the same thing in sailing to, people dreaming of sailing round the world, ask detailed questions on exotic ports, end up with a lounge full of information and brochures, and never get out of their bath tub.
No wonder Paul Yaw, rarely responds unless your name is Peejay. How many of the enquiries end up as sales? We should be like lawyers, their cost clock starts ticking the moment you walk in.
Perhaps there should be a Forum rule, no question can be asked unless you have hit the search button first!
02-21-02, 09:48 PM
#18
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There never was a 13bt-REW engine!!!
The 13BT was the gen 2 turbo engine in two specs.
The 13B-REW was the gen 2 engine taken from the Cosmo. In Japanese it refers to double turbo.
The two engines had several differences, the REW being stronger.
Ask any engine rebuilder, the exCosmo engine is the way to go for serious power.
The 13BT was the gen 2 turbo engine in two specs.
The 13B-REW was the gen 2 engine taken from the Cosmo. In Japanese it refers to double turbo.
The two engines had several differences, the REW being stronger.
Ask any engine rebuilder, the exCosmo engine is the way to go for serious power.
02-21-02, 10:21 PM
#19
Old [Sch|F]ool
finally someone noticed! (how come I didn't notice it?)
actually the REW is the FD engine, the RE is the Cosmo engine... (the only REW that was in a Cosmo was the 20B-REW) I think the Cosmo engine is the better deal mainly 'cos it's cheaper
(how come I didn't notice it?)actually the REW is the FD engine, the RE is the Cosmo engine... (the only REW that was in a Cosmo was the 20B-REW) I think the Cosmo engine is the better deal mainly 'cos it's cheaper
02-21-02, 10:39 PM
#21
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Sorry I obviously meant 13B-REW is the gan 3 engine.
Poor typing on a laptop where the dark screen is almost black and you can not see the post until it is up on the thread. Getting a replacement this weekend but the screens start playing up above 42C, must see if I can get an intercooler on my laptop, they claim its turbo powered!
Poor typing on a laptop where the dark screen is almost black and you can not see the post until it is up on the thread. Getting a replacement this weekend but the screens start playing up above 42C, must see if I can get an intercooler on my laptop, they claim its turbo powered!
02-22-02, 12:10 AM
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peejay, you are right the REW abreviation incorporated W for the STT system intoduced in April 1990 in the 20B-REW for the Cosmo. I am not certain what other parts from the 20B were used in the new 13B-REW. In AJC13B's website there is reference to the Cosmo engine being stronger when they went for their 427rwhp build.
02-22-02, 02:46 PM
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Mike, I am am not quite certain what your question is. RE stands for Rotary Engine, and the RE department of Mazda was responsible for building all production rotary engines. In the case of the 12A and 13B engines, the manifolds varied almost each year, even within the NA, T or TT configuration. Some manifolds were better than others. Mazdatrix should be able to supply your needs for gaskets as they seem to stock a wider range than most.