13b vs 12a
09-02-02, 09:57 PM
#1
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13b vs 12a
my dad mentioned something a while back about getting another 12a engine to work on and port ourselves, and such, redo the seal.. ect, and swap into my car. well, im wondering if it would be a better route to get a 13b engine to swap into my car, ive seen the kits on the racing beat site. is it too complicated, and would it be worth it. ive heard the 12a is easier to work on and such, am i better off with a 12a? thats what i guess, but i want to know if a 13b would be the better route? any info would be great, or another thread to point me to?
im not too serious about wanting to do it, it just popped into my head and wondering what it all involves and the pro's and con's
im not too serious about wanting to do it, it just popped into my head and wondering what it all involves and the pro's and con's
09-02-02, 11:37 PM
#4
as much as i can't believe i'm watching myself type this, don't get the 13B unless you really want one! if all you guys want to accomplish with this is just to do your own portjob and build an engine. you're much better off sticking with the 12A.
the conversion is not hard, but it can be a pain in the rear when it comes to finalizing your setup, but again, if all you want to do is port a motor and build it, then it would be pointless to undertake the extra expenses for about 30 horses. take the advice, but don't tell anyone that i said it (especially not peejay
)
the conversion is not hard, but it can be a pain in the rear when it comes to finalizing your setup, but again, if all you want to do is port a motor and build it, then it would be pointless to undertake the extra expenses for about 30 horses. take the advice, but don't tell anyone that i said it (especially not peejay
)
09-02-02, 11:41 PM
#5
Super Newbie
Originally posted by Manntis
or get a GSL-SE, which comes with a 13B, and save yourself all the grief of a swap
or get a GSL-SE, which comes with a 13B, and save yourself all the grief of a swap
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09-03-02, 02:53 AM
#10
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Back to basics. The question is asked by someone who already owns an RX-7 with a 12a. Should he buy another !2a and rebuild, presumably while still using the car, or buy a 13b.
1. buying a GSL-SE is outside the question.
2. an old 12a is much cheaper than a 13b
3. the project is to rebuild and port an engine
themselves keeping the costs down.
4. if going the 13b then an old 4 port carby engine
would be far easier than a 6 port EFI engine.
5. street porting a 12a including upgrading the exhaust
side would produce good power, be easier and be
less costly.
6 if going 13bt rather then 13b then thats a different
story with the aim of 200+hp.
My conclusion is go the 12a, you will enjoy the process and if there is a mistake in porting its cheap to start again, while at some future date rebuild the existing 12a into something even better with the experience gained.
1. buying a GSL-SE is outside the question.
2. an old 12a is much cheaper than a 13b
3. the project is to rebuild and port an engine
themselves keeping the costs down.
4. if going the 13b then an old 4 port carby engine
would be far easier than a 6 port EFI engine.
5. street porting a 12a including upgrading the exhaust
side would produce good power, be easier and be
less costly.
6 if going 13bt rather then 13b then thats a different
story with the aim of 200+hp.
My conclusion is go the 12a, you will enjoy the process and if there is a mistake in porting its cheap to start again, while at some future date rebuild the existing 12a into something even better with the experience gained.
09-03-02, 11:14 AM
#11
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If a newer member is asking about putting a 13B into a 1st gen ReX, that doesn't mean buying an SE is out of the question. Some aren't aware that SEs exist, let alone that they come with a 13B. Buying a car that already has the engine and all associated hardware & goodies installed is far less hassle than a swap, and in some cases costs the same or less.
as far as doing the swap for the sake of a project, an old 12A is not neccessarily 'much cheaper' than a 13B. Though I'm not sure of the Australian market, around here parts costs and engine prices are within the ballpark of each other.
If the location of richmond is Richmond, B.C. then emmissions are definately an issue. ICBC Aircare can be quite strict. This is not a matter of 12A vs. 13B, but keep all your emmissions equipment if you plan on plating the car for street use.
as far as doing the swap for the sake of a project, an old 12A is not neccessarily 'much cheaper' than a 13B. Though I'm not sure of the Australian market, around here parts costs and engine prices are within the ballpark of each other.
If the location of richmond is Richmond, B.C. then emmissions are definately an issue. ICBC Aircare can be quite strict. This is not a matter of 12A vs. 13B, but keep all your emmissions equipment if you plan on plating the car for street use.
09-06-02, 06:11 PM
#13
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ive heard about doing that, and its better.. can you or someone explain better? if it was in my price range, i would DEFINATELY do it.. because it would be an engine just laying around till i perfected it and could do the swap on an engine.
would it be difficult? i know my way around the engine, and my dad knows a whole lot about it. hes rebuilt and ported a 12a before.. its a daily driver for me.. so i would need it to be problem free as possible
also... a gsl-se is kinda out of the question, i got a really good deal on my car and its in GOOD condition, and i dotn want to go through the trouble of getting another car. even though i would love to have one
would it be difficult? i know my way around the engine, and my dad knows a whole lot about it. hes rebuilt and ported a 12a before.. its a daily driver for me.. so i would need it to be problem free as possible
also... a gsl-se is kinda out of the question, i got a really good deal on my car and its in GOOD condition, and i dotn want to go through the trouble of getting another car. even though i would love to have one
Last edited by onepointone; 09-06-02 at 06:15 PM.
09-06-02, 06:27 PM
#14
i have an se engine that i just acquired and was thinking about rebuilding. i was also wondering about whether to port it and what type of fuel delivery would give me bang for the buck. just thought you guys could expand on the anti-se sentiment. most have said 12z but what are the 13b alternatives that could come close or offer more, besides the better torque?
09-06-02, 07:07 PM
#17
well, in my opinion, unless you have ridiculous plans for the car it's going in, meaning serious racing, i think you'd probably be doing yourself a favor by choosing or finding what intake you want to run before you decide if you want 4 or 6 port. my guess is that you'd probably only be looking at maybe a 5% difference in power between the two. and if it's just for a car you'll be driving on the street for fun, then i'm sure it won't make much difference, for the extra effort to find another 12A to pirate the end housings from.
is that what you're asking, or am i way off the mark?
is that what you're asking, or am i way off the mark?
09-06-02, 07:11 PM
#18
i'm not sure. was that a yah or nay for the 12a endhousings? this is going to be like his. basically a fun buildup project looking for a good bang:buck. i want something fast too. going from a wrx to an sa was a touch dissappointing on acceleration. the car is mainly a toy and autox car.
09-06-02, 07:38 PM
#21
it wasn't yea or nay ... if you have an extra 12A somewhere and the side/intermediate housings are good, then streetport it and do the 4-port 13B (you'll have a slightly larger intake pool to chose from)
i just didn't want to tell you to build a 4-port motor, if you don't have the 12A housings currently available to you. you know what i mean? i didn't want you to go out and buy it just to build the motor if you already have a good SE motor there to port and build.
the power/breathing issue is arguable, so all i will do is share my personal opinion. i think the 4-ports ultimately breath better that 6-ports (when comparing streetported engines) ... but i don't think the difference is serious enough to go out of you way to build a 4-port engine if ALL you have is a 6-port ... see what i mean?
i think the 4-ports are better suited for forced induction and SERIOUS racing, but for building a fun street car, i don't think it really matters whether you run 4 or 6. again, that's just my opinion ...
i just didn't want to tell you to build a 4-port motor, if you don't have the 12A housings currently available to you. you know what i mean? i didn't want you to go out and buy it just to build the motor if you already have a good SE motor there to port and build.
the power/breathing issue is arguable, so all i will do is share my personal opinion. i think the 4-ports ultimately breath better that 6-ports (when comparing streetported engines) ... but i don't think the difference is serious enough to go out of you way to build a 4-port engine if ALL you have is a 6-port ... see what i mean?
i think the 4-ports are better suited for forced induction and SERIOUS racing, but for building a fun street car, i don't think it really matters whether you run 4 or 6. again, that's just my opinion ...
09-06-02, 10:56 PM
#24
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thats what im asking.
putting 12a side plates with 13b housings and rotors. how would that work? estimated horses. ill be doing some kind of porting on it, i just have to learn more and what kind of porting will give me what im looking for. i dont want it to swallow gas, but then i want it to be decently quick.
would i need to go with EFI or can i keep the carb?
what essentric shaft would i use? 13b or 12a
would the stationary gears on the 12a side plate work with the 13b rotors? flywheel.. so on and so on..
is it alot less trouble to just find a 12a and do work on that? seems like it would be a cool project.. but how hard is it?
what im planning on doing, is getting another engine so i can do internals (porting, maybe rotors.. whatever else i can do) then swap it into my car. then i can do the same to my current engine, or jsut leave it stock so im garenteed a working engine just incase. can someone help me out with some options.. i do have limited money, so im thinking it would be faster and cheaper to just stick with a 12a
putting 12a side plates with 13b housings and rotors. how would that work? estimated horses. ill be doing some kind of porting on it, i just have to learn more and what kind of porting will give me what im looking for. i dont want it to swallow gas, but then i want it to be decently quick.
would i need to go with EFI or can i keep the carb?
what essentric shaft would i use? 13b or 12a
would the stationary gears on the 12a side plate work with the 13b rotors? flywheel.. so on and so on..
is it alot less trouble to just find a 12a and do work on that? seems like it would be a cool project.. but how hard is it?
what im planning on doing, is getting another engine so i can do internals (porting, maybe rotors.. whatever else i can do) then swap it into my car. then i can do the same to my current engine, or jsut leave it stock so im garenteed a working engine just incase. can someone help me out with some options.. i do have limited money, so im thinking it would be faster and cheaper to just stick with a 12a
09-07-02, 12:24 AM
#25
It would be faster, easier, cheaper and a great learning project to stick with the 12A. You can keep the intake and header that you have now.
The next step would be to go with a four port 13B.
Then, the next step would be to go to and stand alone EFI.
Then the next step would be to go to a wild turbo setup.
But remember that each time you go to the next step you need to move the decimal point on your costs to the right (example $100, $1,000, $10,000). Its simple, but that next step is a killer.
The next step would be to go with a four port 13B.
Then, the next step would be to go to and stand alone EFI.
Then the next step would be to go to a wild turbo setup.
But remember that each time you go to the next step you need to move the decimal point on your costs to the right (example $100, $1,000, $10,000). Its simple, but that next step is a killer.