13b fuel injection or carb?
02-11-10, 08:58 PM
#1
gsl-se only 13b
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13b fuel injection or carb?
so i have an 85 gsl-se ive been having prob's with the fuel injection such as not wanting to start after it has been drivin and sits for an hour, Then fine once it cools down.
Also car will start when cold no prob but will rev 1k-3 or 4k on its oun untell warmed up, im woundering if i should go with a carb and git rid of all these probs,if so what dose it take to put a carb on a 13b with fuel injection as far as money and time
Also car will start when cold no prob but will rev 1k-3 or 4k on its oun untell warmed up, im woundering if i should go with a carb and git rid of all these probs,if so what dose it take to put a carb on a 13b with fuel injection as far as money and time
02-11-10, 09:34 PM
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the GSL-SE has what is called fast idle,when you first start it when cold,it will rev to 3800 rpm or around there,that should last about 14-18 seconds,if not it needs to be adjusted,once it comes down,it should idle around 2000 or so,and as the wax valve heats up the idle will come down to 800 or so when the engine is at operating temp.i would leave it alone if it works,it is a great system when it is adjusted correctly. as for not wanting to start when hot,a bad rotor or main bearing might be a problem.i have had this happen with engines that have a lot of miles on them or if rebuilt,the bearings were incorrectly installed.
02-11-10, 11:06 PM
#7
yep agreed, fix the issues, it'll be cheaper and better in the long run. Do the swap and you'll you'll be looking for knowledge on tuning your carb. Intake $268, carb $350, fpr $100, air cleaner $60 = $778 plus labor, lessons and tuning. Pull your injectors and get them serviced $150 + diy, install a fuel cut off switch (additional bandaid) $20+diy. So $778 ++ or preserve the value of you precious GSLSE and keep her stock and running fine for under $200, easy choice indeed! I would suggest a proper compression test before going either route. You could just wire up the fuel cut off switch and learn to use it, if it works then invest in the injector service. What do you have to lose, $20+ a little time and you'll have plenty of answers to direct the next choice. Hate to see you blow about $800 on a good carb set up to find you have a bad engine.
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02-12-10, 12:45 AM
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yep agreed, fix the issues, it'll be cheaper and better in the long run. Do the swap and you'll you'll be looking for knowledge on tuning your carb. Intake $268, carb $350, fpr $100, air cleaner $60 = $778 plus labor, lessons and tuning. Pull your injectors and get them serviced $150 + diy, install a fuel cut off switch (additional bandaid) $20+diy. So $778 ++ or preserve the value of you precious GSLSE and keep her stock and running fine for under $200, easy choice indeed! I would suggest a proper compression test before going either route. You could just wire up the fuel cut off switch and learn to use it, if it works then invest in the injector service. What do you have to lose, $20+ a little time and you'll have plenty of answers to direct the next choice. Hate to see you blow about $800 on a good carb set up to find you have a bad engine.
Stop by this weekend, and we will have a look at your car.
you got a good laugh out of my wife...... EFI to CARB.......hahahahah
02-12-10, 11:22 AM
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02-12-10, 11:30 AM
#11
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Oh yes they do
The easiest & cheapest fix is to put a cutoff switch into the cab that disconnects the trailing ignigion coil (I think it's trailing, it's the one with the blue connector on the coil). When that is disconnected the fuel is cut as well - allowing the engine to fire, when it does - reconnect the coil and everything is fine.
I had a pushbutton for this cutout in a blank spot on the dash to the left of the steering wheel, worked perfectly for years whenever it flooded. If you want any hookup info do a search or reply and I can send you a schematic for what I put in - I don't have it here at work.
02-12-10, 02:40 PM
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Going to a carb will be pricey, but in my opinion its worth it. I put a Dellorto on mine and will never look back. The car starts PERFECTLY every time and has a noticable power gain (doesn't like cold weather for the first minute or two). But to each his own. I kept running into bad connections on the wiring on the EGI. Nothing seriously wrong, but I still had to take hours to diagnose all the gremlins. Plus I had to replace my AFM twice, computer, and the TPS- that was all 10 and 15years ago when they wern't as cheap as they are now. That alone paid for my carb swap - almost twice over!
There is a following of keeping the FI, and I can respect that. Your problems sound like some I've had, and I don't want to scare you, but check out your OPM and lines. It can also be a sign of a sticking apex seal. I'd check the compression when the engine is hot. Cleaning and degreasing the throttle body might bring the high startup revs back down to the normal range - but its not too far off from what you are telling us. Good luck.
Properly built and modified carb and manifold ~$800 also need new fuel pump + choke cable + Injector plug kit- thats the major parts from memory. Call RB or Mazdatrix or go get the EGI fixed - its a smooth running system when working right.
There is a following of keeping the FI, and I can respect that. Your problems sound like some I've had, and I don't want to scare you, but check out your OPM and lines. It can also be a sign of a sticking apex seal. I'd check the compression when the engine is hot. Cleaning and degreasing the throttle body might bring the high startup revs back down to the normal range - but its not too far off from what you are telling us. Good luck.
Properly built and modified carb and manifold ~$800 also need new fuel pump + choke cable + Injector plug kit- thats the major parts from memory. Call RB or Mazdatrix or go get the EGI fixed - its a smooth running system when working right.
02-12-10, 03:14 PM
#13
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The cold reving "problem" means that your car is running normally. It was designed to do that.
If you want to drop money, do it on performance enhancers like a turbo system. Otherwise, as mentioned, change your injector gromets and send your injectors to RC or another performance shop to get cleaned, blueprinted, and tested. It will help your fuel milage too.
If you want to drop money, do it on performance enhancers like a turbo system. Otherwise, as mentioned, change your injector gromets and send your injectors to RC or another performance shop to get cleaned, blueprinted, and tested. It will help your fuel milage too.
02-12-10, 04:59 PM
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A properly sorted EFI system is nice and smooth. If yours isn't functioning right, fix it, instead of replacing it with a completely different system that might have its own problems. As others have said, it's most likely leaky injectors. Get them cleaned. While you're at it, adjust your throttle body so it's all to spec, and adjust your throttle position sensor so it's set right. When you're done and everything runs, set your timing. And yes, the idle should surge on cold starts, and it will come down once everything is warmed up.
02-12-10, 06:29 PM
#16
Fuel pump, stock efi pump is fine you just need a good quality return style adjustable FPR
Choke cable, nada with a holley or edelbrock, go electric. Although a sidedraft with functioning 6 port operation would be ideal.
Injector plug kit, oooops i forgot that.
02-12-10, 06:52 PM
#17
gsl-se only 13b
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well the car dosent have a TON of miles on it 114k so i belive the engine is good i have checked compression on it not that long ago and lowest was like 110 or so,So i think what i will do is just have injectors cleaned and new O-rings and hope that will fix my problem,But ive noticed mostly all of you have said my serging on cold starts is normal......seems weird that a car would start and rev on its oun....this is what happends i start the car it rev's to 3k-2k over and over, like bawm...bawm...bawm..bawn you get the point, it will do this unless i just hold the gas at 3k witch i do
02-12-10, 10:23 PM
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well the car dosent have a TON of miles on it 114k so i belive the engine is good i have checked compression on it not that long ago and lowest was like 110 or so,So i think what i will do is just have injectors cleaned and new O-rings and hope that will fix my problem,But ive noticed mostly all of you have said my serging on cold starts is normal......seems weird that a car would start and rev on its oun....this is what happends i start the car it rev's to 3k-2k over and over, like bawm...bawm...bawm..bawn you get the point, it will do this unless i just hold the gas at 3k witch i do
02-22-10, 05:39 PM
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gsl-se only 13b
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yea i noticed there was an old TPS for dummies post but there was no pics, mabie someone can find those pics, i can do quite a bit of stuff on my car but i just dont know any thing about the fuel injection at all......... thx guys i know a lot of you can do this is your sleep but there is some of us out there that dont know wtf we are doing on some thing's and i dont wana see my SE get fucked up because of me
02-22-10, 06:06 PM
#23
84SE-EGI helpy-helperton
"SE Surge Idle" will turn up some posts by me over the years.
Surging is not endemic to -SE's, but the high throttle setting on cold start is the system working as designed. There's a reason why every major performance car out there today uses fuel injection - it's because it's more efficient at making power, and more reliable than carbs.
Go whatever direction you want, but getting an -SE to idle correctly is more art than science, as evidenced by this picture;
Surging is not endemic to -SE's, but the high throttle setting on cold start is the system working as designed. There's a reason why every major performance car out there today uses fuel injection - it's because it's more efficient at making power, and more reliable than carbs.
Go whatever direction you want, but getting an -SE to idle correctly is more art than science, as evidenced by this picture;
02-22-10, 08:32 PM
#24
gsl-se only 13b
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so ive read dozens of the post on surgeing and none of the ones ive read are like my problem,most of them are on a 2nd or 3rd gen of they are 1st gen but carbed,dose anyone know of a post i can look at that describes my surgeing prob, or how i ajust my tps
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